Timing Belt / Dealer Issue... Argh

[pauli]

Had my 1999 Subaru Outback in for service including: Timing belt, water pump, cam and crank seals and resealed oil pump (inc coolent flush/oil change etc etc.) Well reviewing my invoice I looked up the timing belt and the invoice showed pn 13028AA102 which I looked up as the timing belt for the 2.2 not the 2.5?????? First of all is this even possible? Second I negotiated with service manager to lower total cost of service prior to work to a lower number (thought $500 was good for this service). Could he of put the price of a lower belt in the pc so the invoice would come out correct? Or could this actually be the WRONG part for my 2.5 DOHC? Is this a no-no, could it be a accident by dealer or an accident waiting to happen? Or is this one of the parts that can be interchanged between models?? I like the guys at the Suby dealer (well only so much) but know I am kind of paranoid as to what they actually did. Any info advice or help would be appreciated.

Thanks

[Manarius]

Does the car run? If it does, I bet that they just mislabelled the part number on your bill. The car won't run with the wrong timing belt, it's that simple.

 

BTW, I think 500 is rather high for that service, especially on a Subaru where you don't have to remove the entire side of the engine just to get at the belt.

[RallyKeith]

Simple fact is that they never made a DOHC 2.2 and there is no way a SOHC 2.2 belt will fit onto a DOHC Motor. So it sound like they just put the wrong part number in.

 

Keith

[Virrdog]

BTW, I think 500 is rather high for that service, especially on a Subaru where you don't have to remove the entire side of the engine just to get at the belt.

Think all you want. Now go to your local Subaru dealer and see how much they quote you to do all of that work.

 

I also think shop numbers are really high and I lose touch with reality since I rarely go to them. But they are that high for that much labor nonetheless.

[pauli]

Ya I understand there is no such thing as a 2.2 DOHC, so I was pretty sure it would not work.... Yes I know dealers charge allot for service, unfortuantely my bill did not break down per hour rate so I could not see what time went where. But all prices for parts were same as online retail (not discounted) So roughly it was 50/50 for parts and shop rate.

[Manarius]

Think all you want. Now go to your local Subaru dealer and see how much they quote you to do all of that work.

And people wonder why I refuse to go to the "stealership."

[J A Blazer]

I don't know why someone thinks $500 is high for this service; my dealer quoted $900 for my 2000 SOHC 2.5 OBW.

[Smpol19]

BTW, I think 500 is rather high for that service, especially on a Subaru where you don't have to remove the entire side of the engine just to get at the belt.

 

Lowest dealer quote i got in the DC metro area for that service was $950, I think he got a great deal.

[Manarius]

I repeat the same sentiment: Why in the hell would you go to a dealer? Do you dislike your money that much? I avoid a dealer like the plague; they screw 99 out of every 100 that walk in.

[Virrdog]

I repeat the same sentiment: Why in the hell would you go to a dealer? Do you dislike your money that much? I avoid a dealer like the plague; they screw 99 out of every 100 that walk in.

Calm down young Padawan. Some people do not have the time, skills, tools, or oppurtunity to work on their car (try having 4 kids and see how your priorities change). Along the same lines, some people cannot afford to get screwed and have their car done wrong at some hill-billy muffler shop. So the safest bet for them to have their car done right is to take it to a Subaru specific shop that resides with the Dealer.

 

That said, I do all my own stuff. But you have to understand why some people can't or won't.

[RallyKeith]

Calm down young Padawan. Some people do not have the time, skills, tools, or oppurtunity to work on their car (try having 4 kids and see how your priorities change). Along the same lines, some people cannot afford to get screwed and have their car done wrong at some hill-billy muffler shop. So the safest bet for them to have their car done right is to take it to a Subaru specific shop that resides with the Dealer.

 

That said, I do all my own stuff. But you have to understand why some people can't or won't.

 

 

I agree with what he said. Not to mention that Dealers have the best parts available, and will always install the upgraded parts if a part was changed. Take DOHC Head gaskets for example. You can not get the original design gasket that is prone to blow at the dealer. They only carry the replacement upgraded parts. There is no garuentee that an independant mechanic will get the best parts.

[Manarius]

Calm down young Padawan. Some people do not have the time, skills, tools, or oppurtunity to work on their car (try having 4 kids and see how your priorities change). Along the same lines, some people cannot afford to get screwed and have their car done wrong at some hill-billy muffler shop. So the safest bet for them to have their car done right is to take it to a Subaru specific shop that resides with the Dealer.

 

That said, I do all my own stuff. But you have to understand why some people can't or won't.

I'm not saying do everything yourself. There's a lot of things I can't or won't attempt. That being said, I refuse to go to the dealer to let them destroy my wallet. I'll find a reputable mechanic before I ever go to the dealer for anything.

[porcupine73]

I second the motion that the 2.2 belt would almost certainly not be long enough to even fit the 2.5 dohc, so maybe it's just a misprint. I doubt the price difference is all that much so who knows.

 

My co-worker says if you have the time, ability, space, equipment, and motiviation to work on your own car it's a lot of fun but any given time he is lucky to have 2 of those.

[Virrdog]

I'm not saying do everything yourself. There's a lot of things I can't or won't attempt. That being said, I refuse to go to the dealer to let them destroy my wallet. I'll find a reputable mechanic before I ever go to the dealer for anything.

Dude, can't you see that just maybe somewhere/someplace in some nearby galaxy that there are people who can't find a reputable mechanic they trust to work on their subaru?

 

Seriously.

 

My co-worker says if you have the time, ability, space, equipment, and motiviation to work on your own car it's a lot of fun but any given time he is lucky to have 2 of those.

Yeah, the equipment part is the most frustrating, too. Trying to work on that... air tools --> $$$

[tcspeer]

Easy on the hill-billy, they are some here.

Calm down young Padawan. Some people do not have the time, skills, tools, or oppurtunity to work on their car (try having 4 kids and see how your priorities change). Along the same lines, some people cannot afford to get screwed and have their car done wrong at some hill-billy muffler shop. So the safest bet for them to have their car done right is to take it to a Subaru specific shop that resides with the Dealer.

 

That said, I do all my own stuff. But you have to understand why some people can't or won't.

[Manarius]

Dude, can't you see that just maybe somewhere/someplace in some nearby galaxy that there are people who can't find a reputable mechanic they trust to work on their subaru?

 

Seriously.

I'd drive 50 miles to a shop if they could offer me a price lightyears lower than the dealer. The increased gas cost and time cost factored in still make the repair extremely less than the dealer's cost. I avoid dealers like the plague. They often screw up jobs and charge outrageous prices. I speak from experience on this - every dealer experience I've ever had has been a sucky one, and I've had over 5.

[RallyKeith]

For Argument's sake, here are the part prices to do the job off http://www.thepartsbin.com

 

A5000-53900 Timing Belt $60.64

G3000-60247 Water Pump w/ water pump gasket $61.84

G4031-38696 Thermostat Gasket $4.88

A8080-102364 Camshaft Seals (2) OEM $17.72

A8060-104474 Crankshaft Seal Front OEM $8.36

A6160-137278 Oil Pump Seal $1.83

A6120-23416 Oil Drain Plug Gasket $2.28

A6000-131112 Oil Filter $4.93

4 Quarts Castrol 5W-30 ~$10

1 Gallon Preston AntiFreze ~ $10

Parts Total: $182.48

Minimum 4 hours labor @ $40/hr = $160

Combined total at "regular" mechanic = $342.48

 

You COULD save $150 if you went to an independant mechanic, AND they only charge $40 an hour labor, AND they guy is fast. Last time I was at the subaru dealership they charged something like $70 and hour, and I'd bet they charge 6 hours of labor. That being the case I don't think you over payed for genuine subaru parts and a major company backing up the work.

[Manarius]

4 hours!? My mechanic did my brother's transverse I4 in 3hours @ 60 an hour - cost my dad 250 to have the Tbelt and accessory belts replaced. And that was on a transverse car, much more a pita than a horizontally opposed car.

[pauli]

Wow did not mean to start such a debated topic.... I searched around, not the whole west coast, but got quotes from two independents and 2 Subaru dealers. Prices were not that far off and I knew I would be getting OEM parts (well at least hopefully on my car maybe not on my statement with Subaru.) If something goes down I know who to talk to at the dealership and how to get it taken care of. I also am allot more comfortable with a Subaru certed mech. who works on 90% Subs and knows all the little nuances of the car. Lets say compared to a small shop mech who probably knows a little about all cars..... On doing it myself I am mechanicly inclined, do oil changes, plugs and wires, filter routine mainteneance etc etc. I dont believe my time is worth 40-60 bucks an hour (at least wrench wise), but when you get in over your head with a haymes manual on a Sat am project and its 11 pm Sun night and either my wife or I need the car the next morning you have to know when to say when. I do not like to get taken for either. So kudos to all those Subie owners that have the time, treasure and talent (and maybe 3 subies) to get the job done competently. Long the the Subie

[avk]

An independent shop would still charge a dealer list price, or thereabouts, for parts, even if they're aftermarket. Mark-up on parts is a necessary part of the business. By the way, OE parts at thepartsbin.com cost a good deal more than at discount dealers such as subarugenuineparts and subaruparts.

[RallyKeith]

4 hours!? My mechanic did my brother's transverse I4 in 3hours @ 60 an hour - cost my dad 250 to have the Tbelt and accessory belts replaced. And that was on a transverse car, much more a pita than a horizontally opposed car.

 

Ah... A little more that just a timing belt replacement was done. The water pump was replaced, the cam seals were replace, the crank seal was replaced, and the oil pump was resealed. All of that is at least an hour once you're in there, and don't forget that there is time spent to drain the cooling system, flush, and fill it again.

[Manarius]

Ah... A little more that just a timing belt replacement was done. The water pump was replaced, the cam seals were replace, the crank seal was replaced, and the oil pump was resealed. All of that is at least an hour once you're in there, and don't forget that there is time spent to drain the cooling system, flush, and fill it again.

All right - another hour still puts you at 310 and with increased part costs: 370-380. Still a buck twenty lower than the dealer, and with better craftsmenship (I've seen dealer work - not spectacular by any level).

 

I'm sure someone is going to come here and try to defend a dealer. I'm sure that not all dealers suck, but out my experiences with the quality of service with the ones around here (and there are quite a few), I've determined that I'd rather shoot myself in the left foot with a bazooka than take my car to a dealer for work.

[a97obw]

WHAT ARE YOU DOING ON A SUBARU MESSAGE BOARD!! NOW GET BACK TO WORK! I'M GETTING SICK AND TIRED OF YOUR RUNNING AROUND LIKE SOME PREMADONNA!!

 

 

(all in fun there Pauli)

[ericem]

I repeat the same sentiment: Why in the hell would you go to a dealer? Do you dislike your money that much? I avoid a dealer like the plague; they screw 99 out of every 100 that walk in.

 

I disagree with ur little comment. I have went to, many many private little mehcanics and they cost me SO much in the long run, i love my dealer, i preffer they charged me double, just because i can count on my stealership on doing a good proper job. I have spent so much refixing things my crappy mechanics have done, i have been through about 20 different mechanics, and only 1 i liked.

[99lego]

I disagree with ur little comment. I have went to, many many private little mehcanics and they cost me SO much in the long run, i love my dealer, i preffer they charged me double, just because i can count on my stealership on doing a good proper job. I have spent so much refixing things my crappy mechanics have done, i have been through about 20 different mechanics, and only 1 i liked.

 

 

Well let me flip that one around. The one mechanic I like is constantly pointing out things that the stealership has done wrong and/or never did but charged me for. For example I bought a GL back in early '05 and brought it to the dealer to flush the radiator...I live in the desert...and examine both front axles to determine if they are in need of any work. A couple months down the road the CV's start to click just as my engine temp starts to go erradic. My mechanic showed me exactly where a utility knife was used to puncture my CV boots and I watched in disbelief as something akin to mayonase was pumped from my radiator. These guys wont go near the local dealer for anything, they get suby parts shipped in from Phoenix, Flagstaff, or Cottonwood and call the out of town dealers to get their questions answered. I wont go near my local dealer unless it is an emergency and when I do get out of my car both the service manager and one of their mechanics hide with their tails between their legs so that they dont have to deal with me. I really dont like getting the run-around, overcharged, or treated like a statistic. I appreciate the fact that my indepenent foregin auto mechanic likes to do a good job the first time. Hell last newyears I even delivered them a pecan pie just to show them my appreciation. The only thing the local dealer is likely to get out of me is a bunch of saliva as it flies out of my mouth while I scream at them.