entrancetoexit Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 OK, so I bought a '98 Outback in late July. It ran fine until I was coming back from a 2-hour trip a few weeks ago and noticed that the temp gauge was most of the way up right before I got back to my house (it just suddenly jumped up and the I had already taken the car on a couple of 3-4 hour drives beforehand.) After another instance of overheating on a medium length trip and a little digging on this forum, I decided it was probably the head gaskets and, since I don't really know any Sub-specific mechanics in the RDU area in NC, I took it into the dealer here in Raleigh to check things out and do any repairs. Well, I called them yesterday and they told me that it wasn't the head gaskets. Apparently, they think the piston sleeves are cracked and that I need a new engine. He fairly emphatically denied any involvement with the head gaskets. The car only overheats after driving for more than 25 or so minutes (and that's only sometimes, it's done it three times so far,) the coolant is bubbling in the resevoir and there's oil residue in there. Any thoughts? I have a sinking feeling that I do indeed need to rebuild the engine, being aluminum, not fond of overheating and all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 i don't 'no nuttin' 'bout no cracked piston sleeves, but it sounds to me like you need a new dealer. real mechanics will know, but it sounds like classic HG to me. i'd be temped to swap , nto rebuild. OK, so I bought a '98 Outback in late July. It ran fine until I was coming back from a 2-hour trip a few weeks ago and noticed that the temp gauge was most of the way up right before I got back to my house (it just suddenly jumped up and the I had already taken the car on a couple of 3-4 hour drives beforehand.) After another instance of overheating on a medium length trip and a little digging on this forum, I decided it was probably the head gaskets and, since I don't really know any Sub-specific mechanics in the RDU area in NC, I took it into the dealer here in Raleigh to check things out and do any repairs. Well, I called them yesterday and they told me that it wasn't the head gaskets. Apparently, they think the piston sleeves are cracked and that I need a new engine. He fairly emphatically denied any involvement with the head gaskets. The car only overheats after driving for more than 25 or so minutes (and that's only sometimes, it's done it three times so far,) the coolant is bubbling in the resevoir and there's oil residue in there. Any thoughts? I have a sinking feeling that I do indeed need to rebuild the engine, being aluminum, not fond of overheating and all... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Welcome to the forum. You've described classic symptoms of head gasket failure. Even if we assume by "piston sleeves" that the reference is to cylinder walls, there's a question as to how the dealer determined that's where the problem lies as opposed to head gaskets; did they explain how HGs were ruled out? Overheating the engine could lead to all kinds of things, including warped heads, but not necessarily a cracked block. You may want to get a second opinion by someone who knows Subarau engines and is willing to consider more than an engine swap. Unfortunately, I don't know anyone in the Raleigh-Durham area, but hopefully another forum member might. How many miles are on the engine? By the way, things may not run smoothly here for a while (read the Announcement if you don't know why), so don't be discouraged if replies to your message are a bit slow in coming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 I haven't really heard of the piston sleeves cracking before, not that it's not possible. I'm pretty sure that engine would be one of the head gasket HG issue vehicles so it seems anyway much more likely to be the head gaskets plus your description of the oily bubbly in the overflow tank. Maybe they just don't like doing HG jobs and would rather pop in a new engine. The price of HG replacement at a dealer isn't going to be cheap as they will pull the engine to do it, probably at least $1k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 beat dead horse icon, how do i use that? anyway, sounds like the typical headgasket symptoms. a cracked block is certainly a possibility, but not nearly as probable as the headgaskets. the blocks don't just crack either, they probably only crack due to a failed headgasket and then continuing to drive the car while overheating. so if you drove it for quite some time with a bad headgasket (overheating), the risk of the block cracking goes up substantially. remember, block issues are very rare, most people replace the headgaskets without issue. i'm not talking about the block to scare you (like the dealer is!!!), but to let you know that i don't know how long you drove the car while running hot so i can't make a judgement call really. you have a few options. if money doesn't matter, pay the $1,500 to replace the headgaskets. doesn't have to be a subaru specialist, my buddy who's a mechanic has done a few of these EJ25 headgaskets and he rarely works on subaru's in his shop. they aren't anything special. kind of easy as far as head gaskets go really...except that there are two of them, that's kind of annoying! if money is an issue practice using the *search* button and read your options on this forum. you can save money by installing a 2.2 liter engine, that's the cheapest solution. replacing the head gaskets ($1,500) or replacing the engine would be much more. CCR is the way to go if you want a rebuilt engine. comes with full warranty, great company and it's brand new and should last a loooong time. it will have the new updated head gaskets on it too, so no worries. i'm calling BS on that dealer. i doubt they did enough testing to truely diagnose a cracked block and not the headgaskets. i garauntee the headgaskets are bad, so that they make a claim like that is totally erroneous and they are obviously short on their house payment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
entrancetoexit Posted October 6, 2006 Author Share Posted October 6, 2006 Thanks for the replys. I had been considering the CCR route (I'm planning on using this car for at least 5 or so more years, hopefully.) It did heat up about three times, (although I caught it fairly quickly and pulled over every time.) I was mostly wondering if anyone thought the dealer was full of it. First and last time dealing with dealers, I guess. The car has a little over 122k miles on it, around 119k when I bought it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 if you weren't living in the red then a headgasket job should fix your issues. they are very stout motors with the new headgaskets, you shouldn't have any issues doubling your current mileage with new headgaskets. the new headgasket design won't blow a second time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Was it a Subaru dealer?? I ask because any Subaru trained mechanic or anyone who works on Subarus will tell you that Subarus don't have sleeved pistions. They have a block with the cylinder for the pistons bored into the block. The only time there would vere be a sleeve is if the psiton walls were badly scored by a broken rod and they had to sleeve that one piston hole. Get a second opinion from a reputable mechanic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 For '00OBW 2.5L sohc it says the cylinder liners 'dry type' totally cast iron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzam Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Was it a Subaru dealer?? I ask because any Subaru trained mechanic or anyone who works on Subarus will tell you that Subarus don't have sleeved pistions. They have a block with the cylinder for the pistons bored into the block. The only time there would vere be a sleeve is if the psiton walls were badly scored by a broken rod and they had to sleeve that one piston hole. Get a second opinion from a reputable mechanic. Dr. RX is correct... take it to a dealer or subie specific shop for a diagnosis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msmithmmx Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 "cracked piston sleeves" This would be the first that I have heard of this. I would recommend you take you car from that place ASAP and never return ever. Assume you have a blown HG until that is rulled oot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferret Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Dealing with Subaru's for over 25 yrs the following are my observations and opinions: Without tearing the engine down, you can't diagnose 'cracked piston sleeves'. I haven't to date seen a piston sleeve crack, however I HAVE see the cast iron piston sleeves shift and cause compression failures and leaks that resemble a damaged piston, like a hole in the piston. That was on the 90-94 2.2L and was rare. Your symptoms do resemble a head gasket failure ( not only prone to Subarus, but I have done many other manufacturers also ). My own recommendation, find a reputable mechanic to replace your headgaskets, and all the seals, timing belt, pulleys that surround that area while the engine is apart. Spending a few extra dollars now will prevent leaks and problems in the future. If that's not an option, get a CCR rebuild. I would stick with the 2.5L. It will drop right in with no alterations and does have a good track record. Also CCR offers the 3/36 warranty just like a new engine. In fact, better than a Subaru Re-manufactured one. They only offer 1yr/12K. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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