Noises from a Phase 2, 165 HP, 2.5L, SOHC, boxer engine.

[Baruleg Acy]

Well, I've read quite a few threads on all kinds of engine noises and boy, am I as confused as ever!

 

Looks like a lot of tapping-clicking-ticking noises from a Phase 2, 2.5L, 165HP, SOHC, boxer engine in Subarus (1999-2005) can be explained away by the following:

 

1) Slight clicking/ticking from a valve train is okay, because they use "solid" (non-hydraulic) lifters (until 2006) and no matter how well you adjust those, they click, warm or cold. In fact, "...there is no setting...with direct contact that eliminates the clearance without "burning" the valve train...", so "...tick-tick-tick...sounds like a well running engine..."

 

2) Piston slap is okay (because they use short skirted pistons), as long as it goes away in a properly warmed up engine.

 

3) In general, the engine is more noisy than other engine types simply because it's a boxer, so "...valve clatter is not so well dampened due to the lack of covering by air-filters and other components...". So if you hear ya valves even in a warm car, it's okay..

 

So the question is: WHAT kind of tapping-clicking-ticking noise IS NOT okay then? Only piston slapping in a warmed-up car? Anything else??

[jon38iowa]

Well, I've read quite a few threads on all kinds of engine noises and boy, am I as confused as ever!

 

Looks like a lot of tapping-clicking-ticking noises from a Phase 2, 2.5L, 165HP, SOHC, boxer engine in Subarus (1999-2005) can be explained away by the following:

 

1) Slight clicking/ticking from a valve train is okay, because they use "solid" (non-hydraulic) lifters (until 2006) and no matter how well you adjust those, they click, warm or cold. In fact, "...there is no setting...with direct contact that eliminates the clearance without "burning" the valve train...", so "...tick-tick-tick...sounds like a well running engine..."

 

2) Piston slap is okay (because they use short skirted pistons), as long as it goes away in a properly warmed up engine.

 

3) In general, the engine is more noisy than other engine types simply because it's a boxer, so "...valve clatter is not so well dampened due to the lack of covering by air-filters and other components...". So if you hear ya valves even in a warm car, it's okay..

 

So the question is: WHAT kind of tapping-clicking-ticking noise IS NOT okay then? Only piston slapping in a warmed-up car? Anything else??

 

Hi:

One form that is not OK is the type my Subie has( mechanic says its rod noise). The knock is simillar to a diesel sound and does not go away. I am told the engine is on the way out.

John

[johnceggleston]

every engine is different and has it's own noises. subaru engines do too. better than asking what's ok or not ok would be to describe or explain the problems or concerns you are having. much easier to rule out a noise than to tell you one is ok.

 

my 97 obw has piston slap, was diagnosed as "bad wrist pin" by a mechanic at the non-subaru dealer selling it with "needs engine". in my case the noise doesn't go away when it warms up. it does get quiter , but is still there. but for me no biggie, i got a bargain price. so if i have to replace the engine i'll be ok price wise. besides, i already have the engine, tha't's why i was willing to buy the car.

 

so if you have a noise question, fire away, but trying to tell you what's not ok is going to be hard. besides all noises a tempered by how well the car runs.

 

 

 

Well, I've read quite a few threads on all kinds of engine noises and boy, am I as confused as ever!

 

Looks like a lot of tapping-clicking-ticking noises from a Phase 2, 2.5L, 165HP, SOHC, boxer engine in Subarus (1999-2005) can be explained away by the following:

 

1) Slight clicking/ticking from a valve train is okay, because they use "solid" (non-hydraulic) lifters (until 2006) and no matter how well you adjust those, they click, warm or cold. In fact, "...there is no setting...with direct contact that eliminates the clearance without "burning" the valve train...", so "...tick-tick-tick...sounds like a well running engine..."

 

2) Piston slap is okay (because they use short skirted pistons), as long as it goes away in a properly warmed up engine.

 

3) In general, the engine is more noisy than other engine types simply because it's a boxer, so "...valve clatter is not so well dampened due to the lack of covering by air-filters and other components...". So if you hear ya valves even in a warm car, it's okay..

 

So the question is: WHAT kind of tapping-clicking-ticking noise IS NOT okay then? Only piston slapping in a warmed-up car? Anything else??

[subeman90]

don't forget you also hear a little more in an aluminum engine too.

 

Grinding noises are usually bad and so is POW type of noises.

[Baruleg Acy]

describe or explain the problems or concerns you are having

 

Fair enough!

The car is under 40K miles and there's a slight "ticking" noise that quiets down after a warm-up, but does not go away. A "non-subaru" mechanic said he didn't think it was "piston slap", but rather a "surface" valve train noise. So, at this point, it looks like the noise might be "normal", considering that there are "solid" lifters (no 100% sure about this one), but I read stories when "ticking" meant a busted engine that needed to be replaced.

[johnceggleston]

there are ways to isolate the sound, maybe. that should help define it. if i can find it i'll post a link t oa site with a good diagnosti for piston slap. doen't sound like that's what you have, but the explaination is very educational. gave me insight on how things work and why.

 

my 95 2.2 started ticking one day. i was sure it was new engine time. turned out to be low on oil. boy did i feel dumb.

 

check this out.

http://remanufactured-engines.com/page4.htm

 

Fair enough!

The car is under 40K miles and there's a slight "ticking" noise that quiets down after a warm-up, but does not go away. A "non-subaru" mechanic said he didn't think it was "piston slap", but rather a "surface" valve train noise. So, at this point, it looks like the noise might be "normal", considering that there are "solid" lifters (no 100% sure about this one), but I read stories when "ticking" meant a busted engine that needed to be replaced.

[cookie]

Just for another noise note the Havoline 5-30 I'm running in my Forester now has changed the piston slap sound when cold. It still slaps but the noise is deeper and less irritating. According to oil tests the Mobil 1 was fine but it did not muffle noise quite as well as the Havoline. On the other hand I seem to be using a bit more of the Havoline, but it is pretty cheap.

folks on Bobistheoilguy said the Havoline was quieter and they were right. No idea why.

[the_bard]

Get a set of those automotive stethoscopes, from what I've heard (no pun intended). This is after I misdiagnosed a timing belt tensioner that was going south as cold piston slap. Sure didn't sound to me like it was coming from the t-belt area, but I was proven wrong. *shrug*

[2.5_IMP]

I have a 2002 Impreza, just about to hit 114,000 miles, and I've owned it since about 80,000. Since I've owned it, oil changes have been done every three months/3,000 miles, and head gaskets were done around 110,000.

 

Yesterday I noticed a ticking sound that I could hear while driving. After popping the hood, I found the ticking is coming from the driver's side head, but the passenger side head is quiet. This is after the car was completely warmed up.

 

Oil is at the correct level, using Valvoline 10W30.

 

How long do oil pumps usually last on the SOHC EJ25s?

 

Any thoughts?

[the_bard]

My wife's 2000 OBW had a bit of tapping noise when it was cold. Let 'er warm up, and the noise would go away. I shrugged it off.

 

Turned out to be a failing timing belt tensioner. It'd keep tension once it was warm. 'Til then, it'd let the belt slap.

 

We caught it by having the dealer replace a head gasket under warranty... the tech apologized for not catching it on its way into the garage (engine was warm, so it wasn't broadcasting itself). He knocked half the labor off for swapping it out as a result.

 

If I could've gotten my hands on the guy who did the last timing belt change... :-\

[WoodsWagon]

We caught it by having the dealer replace a head gasket under warranty... the tech apologized for not catching it on its way into the garage (engine was warm, so it wasn't broadcasting itself). He knocked half the labor off for swapping it out as a result.

 

If I could've gotten my hands on the guy who did the last timing belt change... :-\

 

Yeah, and it took him less time to slap on a new pre-compressed tensioner than it would have taken to compress the old one. He needed it off anyways to put the t-belt back on after doing the headgasket job. So that was extra labor he got for nothing.

 

Last guy to do the t-belt job either compressed it wrong and didn't catch that he trashed it, which is easy to do. Or, he didn't know that due to the crappy job subaru did with the new lever arm style tensioners, you have to replace them with every t-belt job along with the idlers to keep them from failing. Most other manufacturers let you reuse that stuff without any concern.

 

Piston slap that doesn't go away with warming up isn't a concern either. They will go forever with loud, worse-than-diesel tap piston slap. You can hear my mom's car coming, tap tap tap, and it runs great and has for 3 years that way.

 

Bad noises are a spun bearing. They can squeek squeek squeek from running dry (not for long), or trashed bearings, which will rap, and more importanly, you will get a back-rattle when you rev the engine up and snap the throttle shut.

 

T-belt tensioners can make the same noise as rod bearings, so you need to isolate it.

 

Failed t-belt idler pully bearings can make squeeling noises.

 

Prety much if there isn't a rod sticking through the block or a rod bearing pounding, the engine is fine. Idlers and tensioners are all things that should be replaced with a timing belt job.

[MorganM]

Get a set of those automotive stethoscopes, from what I've heard (no pun intended). This is after I misdiagnosed a timing belt tensioner that was going south as cold piston slap. Sure didn't sound to me like it was coming from the t-belt area, but I was proven wrong. *shrug*

 

This tool is a must have for any DIY weekend warrior mechanic. I've used them dozens of times to pinpoint the source of a noise.

 

Someone told you it's valve train chatter; a fair diagnosis. Put the needle of your mechanic's stethoscope on your valve cover and you you should hear the lifters chattering away and it should be about the same all along both valve covers.

 

Lets say you put the needle on the valve covers and you barely hear any noise or the noise you do hear doesn't match... hmmm doesn't sound like lifters then. Start probing around with the needle on other culprits. Try the fuel injectors; they are surprisingly loud (especially under the stethoscope).

 

You can pull the needle on and off whatever you are probing to try and see if what you are hearing through the stethoscope matches what you are hearing with out it. The rhythm, pitch, and rate should all be the same; it should just be louder under the stethoscope.

 

For the cheap price of this tool you really should get one. Very rarely have I had a noise I couldn't pinpoint with the needle stethoscope. I've found them to be very accurate. Last time I had a bad hydraulic lifter I was able to find exactly which lifter it was just using the stethoscope!