burtonsnowman Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 Okay...here we go... I REALLY want a '96 Outback (with the manual tranny). I pretty much have my heart set on that car...and I will find one. So here's the deal: I want to give the ol' EJ22 a little more go-juice. Stock HP just isn't enough for a 17-year-old hoodlum. I WANT POWER! So I ask you experts...what should I do? I live with mommy and daddy, so my bills are nearly $0. All my money can be dumped into this rig (I have a pretty decent job). So what do I do first? What parts are available? How much HP can the drivetrain, transmission, stock block, etc. handle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjo Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 you could just ditch the 2.2L and throw a 2.5T in it.... exhaust will help you a little, alloy wheels w/ good lite tires, clean out the engine with some seafoam, a lighter flywheel & performance clutch... maybe a shortthrow shifter... just think weight... because heavy things slow you down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 how much work to put on a turbo??? is that doable? another thing is the outback body itself, outbacks weigh more than legacy wagons, some, maybe not much. could you get more power out of a legacy rather than an outback? i prefer the drivability of the leg sedan to the outback, but the outback has the wagon benefit. would taller struts and bigger wheels on a leg wagon drive like the outback or more like the sedan? i haven't driven the leg wagon. you could just ditch the 2.2L and throw a 2.5T in it.... exhaust will help you a little, alloy wheels w/ good lite tires, clean out the engine with some seafoam, a lighter flywheel & performance clutch... maybe a shortthrow shifter... just think weight... because heavy things slow you down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 oh yeah, slick! electric super charger, adds 60hp!!! WOO HOO! you are going to be screaming......back to reality.... depends on your definition of "fast", but modifying a non-turbo car is kind of like refinishing an outhouse, there's just not much you can do to it. it may sound good, look good and function well, but you're really just limited. it takes lots of money and time to get much out of a non-turbo engine. depends if you really want fast or just look and sound fast. you're best bet is a turbo. either install an EJ22T or install a turbo on your no-turbo engine. i know others that have installed a turbo on the stock non-turbo engine. it's easier and if you manage the boost and temperatures well you can get great performance and reliability out of the engine. be careful spending large portions of disposable income on vehicles. if you can withstand that urge now, it will pay off later. i know, i'm an idiot for typing that on a car forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 you're best bet is a turbo. either install an EJ22T or install a turbo on your no-turbo engine. i know others that have installed a turbo on the stock non-turbo engine. it's easier and if you manage the boost and temperatures well you can get great performance and reliability out of the engine. be careful spending large portions of disposable income on vehicles. if you can withstand that urge now, it will pay off later. i know, i'm an idiot for typing that on a car forum. I'm with grossgary on this one - resist the urge now and you'll love yourself later. Planning on going to college? Because you'll never get the money back that you drop into the car. I'm also with grossgary on the method of gaining power - however, I think it would be better to drop in an EJ22T than to turbo the N/A engine, but it could be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burtonsnowman Posted October 6, 2006 Author Share Posted October 6, 2006 How much power have people gotten out of these things without a turbo? A turbo would be cool, but I would still like some low-end grunt for climbing the snow-covered mountainsides around here. Does anyone on the board have a (semi)high-output N/A EJ22? Also, if I did want to get an EJ22T in there, what would it take? It couldn't be that bad, right? And...does anyone know of a good place that sells performance parts for this car/engine? I can only seem to find EJ25 performance parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve455 Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 what about a 50 shot of nitrous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 How much power have people gotten out of these things without a turbo? A turbo would be cool, but I would still like some low-end grunt for climbing the snow-covered mountainsides around here. Does anyone on the board have a (semi)high-output N/A EJ22? Also, if I did want to get an EJ22T in there, what would it take? It couldn't be that bad, right? And...does anyone know of a good place that sells performance parts for this car/engine? I can only seem to find EJ25 performance parts. Without a turbo = lots and lots of money. I doubt anyone around here has a built NA car. EJ22T wouldn't be too hard of a drop. The wiring might be a little hairy going OBDI to OBDII, but it wouldn't be too hard of a drop aside from the electronics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamal Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 WRX driveline swap = $7000 or so if someone else sources low mileage parts and puts it in for you. What they do is take a trashed wrx and swap the entire driveline, suspension, brakes, harness, dash etc. A company here in socal does it for $6500 parts+labor. $13000 for the STi swap, and that incudes the 6-speed, dccd, and brembos. You drop off the car with the money, and a few weeks later you have a WRX in an old school body. If you want to go that route, you might as well pick up an old impreza shell for a few hundred bucks and ship it to aerosim or something. Then you could have a WRX in the lighter, better looking GC body on the cheap. That's what I've always wanted to do anyway. Like everyone said, don't bother trying to make power with the n/a block. You can get a few hp with stuff like exhaust and cams, but to get an significant gains you'd want to change out the heads and pistons and run some sort of em. You can run a little boost on them but I don't think it's worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virrdog Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 You can increase the flow into and out of the engine and/or increase compression. Ported intake stuff, cams, valves, properly selected exhaust etc... will get you the flow. Different pistons, headgaskets and/or heads will get you the compression increase. You might try a 2.5 crank for more stroke and displacement... And in the end you wind up with about stock turbo engine power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 6, 2006 Share Posted October 6, 2006 some 2.5 goodies will fit the 2.2. a "semi-high" output EJ22 is like....20 hp more than stock. i don't know what you know about motors, but that's nothing. if you want 10... *maybe* 20....real stretch...horsepower more to the wheels you're going to need exhaust work, intake work (debatable whether that helps at all), crank pulley, new cams, advance the timing and run on premium gas. lighter wheels will help acceleration as well. that's alot of work and money for what will basically feel like...."i think it's faster". and...you'll be doing the same thing you want to avoid the turbo for. you'll be changing the driveability of the vehicle...exhaust and cam work gain you HP, but at the cost of moving the power band higher. which reduces your low end and doesn't make the car drive as nice in certain situations. now, if you want to tear the heads apart and match intake and exhaust pulses, bench flow testing, port the heads and increase your compression ratio, get different pistons....you're talking major work and thousands upon thousands of dollars of work for a few horsepower. are you looking to tear into the block and due some serious engine building or are you looking for bolt on, easy additions that make your car faster. in reality those things just don't really exist for a non-turbo vehicle. buy a rear spoiler, some chrome rims, paint the engine, get an electric super charger, get some racing stripes, mount your battery in the trunk and you're looking at +75 hp!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monytontanarx Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 some 2.5 goodies will fit the 2.2. a "semi-high" output EJ22 is like....20 hp more than stock. i don't know what you know about motors, but that's nothing. if you want 10... *maybe* 20....real stretch...horsepower more to the wheels you're going to need exhaust work, intake work (debatable whether that helps at all), crank pulley, new cams, advance the timing and run on premium gas. lighter wheels will help acceleration as well. that's alot of work and money for what will basically feel like...."i think it's faster". and...you'll be doing the same thing you want to avoid the turbo for. you'll be changing the driveability of the vehicle...exhaust and cam work gain you HP, but at the cost of moving the power band higher. which reduces your low end and doesn't make the car drive as nice in certain situations. now, if you want to tear the heads apart and match intake and exhaust pulses, bench flow testing, port the heads and increase your compression ratio, get different pistons....you're talking major work and thousands upon thousands of dollars of work for a few horsepower. are you looking to tear into the block and due some serious engine building or are you looking for bolt on, easy additions that make your car faster. in reality those things just don't really exist for a non-turbo vehicle. buy a rear spoiler, some chrome rims, paint the engine, get an electric super charger, get some racing stripes, mount your battery in the trunk and you're looking at +75 hp!!!! :lol::lol::lol::lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 :lol::lol::lol::lol: :lol::lol::):-\:-\:-\:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burtonsnowman Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 buy a rear spoiler, some chrome rims, paint the engine, get an electric super charger, get some racing stripes, mount your battery in the trunk and you're looking at +75 hp!!!! Nice...well, it IS Japanese... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 pardon the humor. without knowing more details it's hard to answer your question. you wrote "I WANT POWER". how much? how much money are looking to put into it? a non-turbo with lots of power is giong to require well into the thousands even if you do your own labor. more thousands if you pay someone else to do it. it's hard to offer advice without knowing these details. then there's the distinction to be made that some like the looks of power.....spoilers, exhaust, turbo scoops, monster lifted (never-offroaded) trucks, diesels, lots of goodies that don't get used or do very much, but give a certain feel for the vehicle....there's lots of choices for those that want that as well. so there's an aesthetic value to be considered as well (for some people!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 lighter rims, lighter flywheel (though you can have problems below 11 lbs or so) lighter crank/access. pulleys. Take out all weight you don't need. every 10 lbs or so you take out = about 1 hp.(i've seen numbers fro 8 to 11, probably a ration to vehicle weight actually) If you can call a tow truck or for help when you have a flat - lose the spare and tools. You don;t really NEED a back seat do you? Keep the windows rolled up at freeway speeds. Drag is bad mmkay? Don't be tempted to alter the exhaust except maybe a nice sounding muffler - free-er exhaust can lower/shift max torque. smaller tires can give you a little more grunt down low - but the speedo and odo will be off. go for suspension bits and autoX or rallyX that beast. It will never be a 1/8 or 1/4 miler Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burtonsnowman Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 then there's the distinction to be made that some like the looks of power.....spoilers, exhaust, turbo scoops, monster lifted (never-offroaded) trucks, diesels, lots of goodies that don't get used or do very much, but give a certain feel for the vehicle....there's lots of choices for those that want that as well. so there's an aesthetic value to be considered as well (for some people!) I have no desire to "pimp it out". I only want some more grunt from the engine. The amount of HP I want to gain is really subjective: If I get a turbo motor in there, it will cost me $______. But, the off-road ability of the car will suffer, being that the car will have little low-end power. I want to know what I can do to the engine for the same $______ without a turbo motor. So here are the real questions: -What will it cost to have a professional drop in an EJ22T (I won't be able to do it...)? -What is a good price for a turbo motor, and... -Which one do I use? Stick with the EJ22T? EJ25T? EJ20G? -With that same $, how much power could I push to stock block to? You see, I'm not really sure what I want yet (turbo or N/A). I need to weigh the options. Does anyone have opinions regarding this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 okay, cool, excellent questions....let's see if the no replacement for displacement might be the best option for you: you might want to consider an EG33 (6 cylinder SVX) engine. 230 hp stock, non turbo Subaru EJ series that will bolt right up to your transmission. they are excellent engines by the way, very reliable and functionally non-inteference with 230 hp stock. that's almost 100 more hp right out of the box with no modifications. being an EJ series it'll bolt right up to your transmission and i'm almost positive the engine mounts will even drop into place. these engines can be found fairly inexpensively. the pluses are tons more hp and it bolts right up to your trans, no turbo, non-interference and reliable. the wiring harness install and the length of the engine are the major obstacles. have to check on those. you could also install a 2.5 engine. they put out 165 hp...i think that's 25 hp more than an EJ22. might be best to start with one of those. 2.2's and 2.5's are interchangeable, even down to the wiring. an EJ22 plugs right into an EJ25 wiring harness. that's an instant 25 hp. install the lightened goodies before dropping it in and sell your EJ22 to recoupe some costs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burtonsnowman Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 Okay...I kind of like the EG33 idea...I didn't even think of that. Does anyone know if that would fit? Also, the wiring...that's going to be a HUGE pain in the bum, isn't it? Any tips/tricks to get that figured out? Oooh, and how cheaply can a good EG33 be had for? And as for the EJ25...I don't know much about them. The Phase IIs began in '99, right? So a '99+ would be best, right? How would that bolt up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 EJ25 would bolt up just fine, it's a direct swap minus some very minor power steering and a/c bracket stuff. very easy, plug and play. bolts up and plugs in. the EG33....i'll point a good friend to this thread that has done extensive work on the EG33, including swapping it into another subaru. the wiring is certainly the biggest PITA, but otherwise this motor will bolt directly to your transmission and i'm almost positive the motors mounts won't be an issue either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burtonsnowman Posted October 9, 2006 Author Share Posted October 9, 2006 Stroker kits for EJ22 or EJ25? Anyone got info on them? Oh, and i'll point a good friend to this thread that has done extensive work on the EG33thanks for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huck369 Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Gary directed me here... I installed a EG33 into my XT6, which was much more trouble than it would be to put it into a Legacy. The mounts will bolt right into the Legacy. Chances are the radiator and fans might be an issue but I have a 98 Legacy Outback, and I can check measurements against it to see. The tranny bolt right up. I've seen the EG33 installed in a 1st gen Legacy on a Aussie site, so I know it'll fit. The wireing on the Legacy and the EG33 are similar, but different, so it will be a bit of a issue...but that's to be expected on any engine swap. If you have any questions, I'll try to help. (It makes my XT6 [FrankenWedge]a real Beast) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 thanks huck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1 Lucky Texan Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 Stroker kits for EJ22 or EJ25?Anyone got info on them? Oh, andthanks for that. I THINK Cobb has some internals. Also, I THINK an Aussie site has some internals. maybe an Antipodean here knows. Also, there are some sandrail guys that do wild stuff with blocks and internals I think. sorry, maybe someone will have specifics. you might also dig around the NA forum at http://www.nasioc.com Carl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burtonsnowman Posted October 10, 2006 Author Share Posted October 10, 2006 Has anyone here done the whole stroker thing? How did it go? What kind of results did it make? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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