burtonsnowman Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 All right. I can't figure it out. When she idles, the oil pressure sometimes goes to 0 (or really close). When I rev it, the pressure goes up to a healthy range, but only while the RPMs are up. I can't figure it out. The oil level is good. The oil is fresh (400 miles since change). I need help. This looks bad. I don't really know what it is doing to the engine when this happens, but the outcome can't be good... The car has 256k miles and it runs like a champ (except for this). Does anyone know what the problem is, how to fix it, and what it's doing to my little boxer? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchsub Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 probably need a new oil pump. its cheap and easy to replace on these engines. at 256k i would be 99 percent sure thats what you need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 New pump, or you can kiss your rod bearings goodbye. Been there, got the t-shirt :-\ GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 couldnt it also be a sending unit going bad?? certainly not an expensive part to replace, or snag one or two from a junkyard if youre feeling lucky.. junkyard results could hardly be called conclusive though, and the "fix" could hardly be permanent, since they all fail eventually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 With 256k, it needs a pump regardless of the condition of the sender. The EA81 pumps should be replaced every 150k in my experience. The senders are about $30, and the pump is $65 or so. Just do the pump, and install a cheap mechanical guage. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 change the pump anyway, then if it still reads funny, check the connection to the sender, check the ground wires under the hood (they probably need help after this long), change the sender, or install an aftermarket gauge. In that order good luck! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrap487 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 2 things: 1) replace the pump, as stated before it's a good idea at 256k... cheap insurance. It should only cost you $80 tops at a dealer, which is better than many parts stores can do. 2) get a good aftermarket gauge and sender - mechanical is fine but electronic/digital would be my preferance. The gauges in these cars are notoriously inaccurate. It is normal for them to read 0 at idle and not go much above 25 when driving. I installed a mechanical gauge, when its cold it idles at 75psi and when driving it reads almost 95... dropping to about 30 at idle and 50-75 while driving when the engine is warm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 mechanical gauge == mo bettah if you ask me. no sending unit to fail, no wires to corrode, just a small oil line that MIGHT CONCEIVABLY somehow rupture.. but thats highly bloody unlikely. sure, mechanical is supposed to mean moving parts to break, where electrical is supposed to last "forever...." but you have an electrical gauge now and if that one is being called into question... get my point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 I have done both, and for simplicity, I like the mechanical unit. The eletric stuff is more expensive, and especially if you want to be able to find spare parts later (new sending units, etc) then you have to stick with a name brand. I have an Autometer electric cluster, and I love it. But the cost is higher. Also it's much easier to eliminate the low-hanging sender with a right angle right off the pump (for the tube) than it is to run a pipe (or braided SS hose in my case) to another location and mount the sender. Mechanical is quicker, easier, and less expensive (under $20). Electric is fancier, less likely to leak or rupture (although this isn't likely with quality tubing) and less sensitive to vibration in the guage itself. It's all a trade off. Having done both, I like my electric for off-road, but at $70 for the cluster, and another ~$50 for hardware, and the SS braided line I used to remote locate the sender..... cheap mechanical FTW. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthenium Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 All right. I can't figure it out. When she idles, the oil pressure sometimes goes to 0 (or really close). When I rev it, the pressure goes up to a healthy range, but only while the RPMs are up. I can't figure it out. The oil level is good. The oil is fresh (400 miles since change). I need help. This looks bad. I don't really know what it is doing to the engine when this happens, but the outcome can't be good... The car has 256k miles and it runs like a champ (except for this). Does anyone know what the problem is, how to fix it, and what it's doing to my little boxer? This is normal. I asked the same question when I first joined this board. If you find your owners manual, like someone suggested to me, it will show you a picture of your gauge at idle, which is barely off of Zero on the gauge, and the gauge while at normal operation, which should be around 45. It's towards the back of the manual...Just keep changing your oil, and you'll be fine:-\ ... After I read the manual for my '91 Loyale, I learned a LOT of quirky things that are "NORMAL" for these wonderful cars. Bottom line, RTFM!!! FAT Tony - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chef_tim Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 This is normal. I asked the same question when I first joined this board. If you find your owners manual, like someone suggested to me, it will show you a picture of your gauge at idle, which is barely off of Zero on the gauge, and the gauge while at normal operation, which should be around 45. It's towards the back of the manual...Just keep changing your oil, and you'll be fine:-\ ... After I read the manual for my '91 Loyale, I learned a LOT of quirky things that are "NORMAL" for these wonderful cars. Bottom line, RTFM!!! FAT Tony - FTW!!!! when it needs more OP it will let you know. I have owned alot of EA82's and even a new CCR one. They all have very low idle OP. If it starts to clicking then I'd worry about the oil pump. However (caveat) if you are going in for belts or what ever then add the OP and WP they're relativly cheap and easy at that point and good insurance. Later, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 This is EA81 land. They will NEVER tick (most don't have hydraulic lifters, and the ones that do don't tick either). The only ticking you hear will be the knock of the rod bearings on their way out. So no, they will not "let you know" Also, zero oil pressure, while common in EA82 land (because of the crappy stock guage) is NOT common in the EA81. Any EA81 that reads below 20 psi warm idle needs help. Period. Besides, it's the guages that cause the "zero oil pressure reading" on the EA82. I have a mechanical guage on my 86 sedan with 230,000 miles on the engine. Still reads over 25 psi hot idle. Take it from someone that has blown a rod through the crankcase because of low oil pressure - get a new pump. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burtonsnowman Posted October 17, 2006 Author Share Posted October 17, 2006 Okay...a new pump is in store for the ole waggy. I hope it won't go on me until I can get my hands on one, though. It's been doing this for two weeks and I neglected to do anything... (That's okay...I've got my eye on another sweet rig...If the '82 goes capoot, maybe I'll just pick it up sooner than planned.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrap487 Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 eh mechanical is fine I guess but installation is a pain, cost of parts may be low for the guage, but if you dont have the tools to drill and tap the hole to the correct size you're looking at a much higher cost. I've been struggling with the little tube for a while, tube that came with wasnt long enough and no place really made longer tubes so I had to get a couple of compression fittings and use 2 hoses, and it has busted twice near the mount, the tubing isnt anywhere near as strong as a larger metal sending unit. Came home from work one day and just driving down the highway, small rock flies up and hits it, I get home and then have a large puddle of oil in my driveway shortly after. I fix it, came home after looking at the hatch I just got last week and it got tweaked again. But maybe I just have bad luck. its a bit easier to deal with a screw to replace a wire than a bunch of brass fittings and an aluminum OP housing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chef_tim Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 This is EA81 land. GD You got me, I didn't even look at his car list:eek: . But I will add that I have had hydo lifter EA81's tick from low oil etc. Later, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 eh mechanical is fine I guess but installation is a pain, cost of parts may be low for the guage, but if you dont have the tools to drill and tap the hole to the correct size you're looking at a much higher cost. I've been struggling with the little tube for a while, tube that came with wasnt long enough and no place really made longer tubes... Installation isn't difficult - you can get longer tubes (and better quality) from any of the VW aftermarket (engine in the rear, so LONG tube is needed). The one I used I got at discount import and it was 16 feet long I think - enough to do two soobs. And you *could* buy the adaptor for the metric hole, or use the 1/8 NPT on the side of the pump.... I just couldn't get the plug out of the 1/8" hole, and didn't want to buy one so I cut the end off the soob sender and drilled/tapped it. But I will add that I have had hydo lifter EA81's tick from low oil etc. Later, Tim Yeah - I've had them tick after doing head gaskets, but not for very long. I have run them down to where there's no oil on the dipstick and it's taken over 2 quarts to fill it back up.... that's as far down as I've ever let one get. ... I was mostly refering to the fact that the EA81 hydro's don't exhibit the typical "TOD" when they are full of oil like the EA82's often do. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chef_tim Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 By the tube, do you mean that carries the oil to the guage??? If so they make copper hose you can buy in any lenght you need. Works great and you don't have to worry about laying it on something hot or sharp and ruining it. Later, Tim Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beataru Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 heres a tip.... USE A MULTIMETER! Check the curent from the sending unit.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RavenTBK Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 By the tube, do you mean that carries the oil to the guage??? If so they make copper hose you can buy in any lenght you need. Works great and you don't have to worry about laying it on something hot or sharp and ruining it. Later, Tim Copper tubing w/ mechanical gauge FTW! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 18, 2006 Share Posted October 18, 2006 Yeah - the copper tubing is a great idea. And you can probably get it in any length. For what it's worth, I've had the (quality) plastic tubing in place for quite a while without problems, but the cheap tubing that came with the cheap wally-world guage was REALLY cheap. The plastic was too thin, and the copper compression fittings would cut right through it if you tightened it enough to actually not leak. And it kinked really easily too. BAD stuff - and I think it wasn't even true nylon material - cheap Chinese plastic or something. There's a world of difference in tubing quality it seems. I got the 16 foot VDO tubing kit.... here's an web site that has the kit: http://www.egauges.com/vdo_acce.asp?Subgroup=Nylon_Tubing_10&Manf=All (anyone have a source for more than 6 feet of copper? http://www.egauges.com/vdo_acce.asp?Subgroup=Copper_Tubing&Manf=All ) And I used the compression fittings that came with the VDO tubing. No leaks, and the tubing is very tight. At about $12 (I beleive shucks/kragen carries the VDO stuff, and most VW discount parts houses), 16 feet will do two soobs worth of guages if you are careful about how you run it. Basically to do a cheap mechanical guage you are looking at: $10 for the guage (wall-mart, etc) $12 for the tubing $2 for the right angle 1/8" NPT fitting (home depot) (add another $12 or so for the metric adaptor if you don't make your own) That's about $25 - $35.... well worth the effort for a decent guage with real numbers on it. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopher G Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 I had the same deal with my 92 loyale... I replaced the oil pump because I thought the old one was bad.. Same deal. runs at 6psi @ idle and a good 45psi @ anything over idle. I would have to say.. dont worry about it.. you know you have issues if the TOD (tick of Death) stays around for a long time... mine comes and goes but for the most part the oil pressure is always the same.. just a little tick... not too harmful I guess just annoying. replace the pump but other than that.... its got a billion miles on it... maybe thats how it just wants to operate... in my opinion... its allowed to have 6psi @ idle.. it's payed its dues.. ROCK OUT:headbang: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 I had the same deal with my 92 loyale... Once again - those of you with EA82's need to stay out of this thread. You know not what you speak. And ticking IS harmful - both to the lifters, and it indicates improper oil pressure. You may need to replace your sender or the oil pump mating surface may not be totally flat anymore. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
christopher G Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 Once again - those of you with EA82's need to stay out of this thread.GD oops thats my bad... mis understood the 82 and EA82..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted October 19, 2006 Share Posted October 19, 2006 and most VW discount parts houses), GD read: JC whitney Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ross Posted October 20, 2006 Share Posted October 20, 2006 Also, zero oil pressure, while common in EA82 land (because of the crappy stock guage) is NOT common in the EA81. Any EA81 that reads below 20 psi warm idle needs help. Period. Interesting you should say that...... my ea81t, which has done a total of around 5000kms since a complete rebuild idles at more like 10psi (measured with mech gauge). Main and BE brg clearences are at the lower end of specs.... Cam brgs are towards the upper spec limit but not excessive..... has a brand new oil pump. I have four hypoheses as to the cause of this: 1- Its just the slightly large clearence in the cam shaft bearings. 2- the hydro pushrod/rocker arm assembly provides less resistance to flow than the solid ones - i'm using solid lifters with the hyro rods/rockers. 3- Its just the effect of the additional direct oil feed to the turbo 4- Something is seriously wrong and the engine is going to fail, probably in the middle of nowhere Heres hoping its not the fourth one ay.... I don't think it is, since the engine runs cool and smoothly, and the presssure has been consistent since i first ran it. So, maybe its not such a big deal for the idle pressure to be below 20psi...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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