Running on all...3? Part 2

[funcle]

My problem is discussed here, its rather old so I thought Id make a new post... http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=60791&highlight=funcle

 

I got hosed at a dealership for a diagnostic fee, which essentially told me exactly the input recieved from that prior thread, via all that responded.

 

Here is the new information: The dealership wants me to get a tune up to the tune of 600$ and then see if the codes still appear. Next, they want to "clean the carbon from the heads" to deminish the idle control system code. Finally, if the Speed sensor codes still appear, they would replace them. Cumulatively, the price is far beyond my budget.

 

The only thing new information the dealership told me is that I need a new ignition coil. (I need a tune up now because of the prior problem), also, they are not familiar with "limp mode".

 

Rodents and flukes of nature were also ruled out by the dealership.

 

The thing that urks me is that I went to this dealership with all of the knowlege gained in the previously linked thread, and they came back to me with less information than I recieved from this community.

 

I guess Im asking for advice here, should I do my own tuneup and then get the VSS sensors replaced, or should I bite the bullet and send myself through the financial ringer?

 

--There is a degree of ignorence.dishonesty that I feel Im dealing with at the dealership (ie: after I told them that one of the vss sensors was in the transmission, only then did they look it up and confirm what I said, and I learned that here, from you all that responded).

 

My train of thought is to give the car a tuneup myself (with mechanic friend) and then take it to a certified shop to get the speed sensors checked.

 

I just dont want to get taken for more money than need be....what do you think?

 

Appreciated:

Jeff

[unibrook]

My experience, and my bro's experience (he is a cert.mechanic) is that if you are physically capable, and mentally willing, and can put the time into it.......you should: change your own oil, maintain your own car, etc. How often do you hear about a symptom, the person drops off the car, mechanics say car is fine--COULD NOT REPRODUCE SYMPTOM? A week later, symptom reappears, frustrated owner drops car at dealer again, mechanics start the ole "parts replacement expedition" until something seems to work for awhile. Owner drives car for awhile, then symptoms reappear. Owner drops car at dealer, they continue the parts replacement expedition........etc, etc.

Just cut out the middle man, start replacing/cleaning parts yourself until you figure out what the problem was. Save yourself the time and money of dropping it off to the shop multiple times. And learn about your car in the process. JMHO, and yes, I am spoiled cuz I have an awesome bro who is a cert. mech. (but even still, he tells me to consult this ultimatesubaru chatgroup when I have trouble diagnosing).

[idosubaru]

start with doing the basic tune up first - replace your spark plugs and spark plug wires. use SUBARU only spark plug wires and NGK spark plugs (any auto parts store will have them). this is a relatively easy job. if you find it annoying, you shouldnt' do any more. if you don't mind it, look into the next thing. i think this will cost less than $50, will alleviate at least one code you're dealing with and help the car run much better. take your time and install the spark plug wires carefully, if you're mechanic friend helps make sure he's aware of how sensitive these EJ motors are to using proper (Subaru only wires) spark plug wires and making sure they are seated and installed properly. no other engine i've ever worked on is as unforgiving as these, so he likely won't believe you! "yeah, right, sure subaru real finnicky, whatever your dump board-member friends say, i've worked on plenty of cars"...is probably what he'll be thinking. even the older subaru engines (EA and ER series) are nothing like the newer EJ series in this regards. i am not making this up.

[xoomer]

and NGK spark plugs (any auto parts store will have them).

NOT TRUE!!! AUTOZONE DOESN'T CARRY NGK!!

[idosubaru]

no kidding, autozone doesn't carry NGK? how weird, i never go there. most parts stores have them, that should be closer to accurate.

[lekmedm]

no kidding, autozone doesn't carry NGK? how weird, i never go there. most parts stores have them, that should be closer to accurate.

 

This is true. I bought Denso instead of NGK, and they have been doing just fine. Actually, I also bought their ignition wires, and they have been running just fine as well (...don't hit me, anybody! ) for the past year.

[OB99W]

My problem is discussed here, its rather old so I thought Id make a new post... http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=60791&highlight=funcle

 

I got hosed at a dealership for a diagnostic fee, which essentially told me exactly the input recieved from that prior thread, via all that responded.

That should be telling you something.

 

 

Here is the new information: The dealership wants me to get a tune up to the tune of 600$ and then see if the codes still appear. Next, they want to "clean the carbon from the heads" to deminish the idle control system code. Finally, if the Speed sensor codes still appear, they would replace them. Cumulatively, the price is far beyond my budget.

 

The only thing new information the dealership told me is that I need a new ignition coil. (I need a tune up now because of the prior problem), also, they are not familiar with "limp mode".

As I mentioned in your earlier thread, it's unlikely that a tune-up will correct certain problems indicated by the trouble codes you previously reported. In particular, the vehicle speed sensor codes should be addressed. The ECU can't properly manage the engine systems if VSS data is faulty, and it can make it appear as if a tune-up (or more) is needed.

 

When the ECU receives sensor data that is so far out of the usual range that it obviously indicates a problem, if possible the ECU ignores the data and substitutes default values. That is what "limp mode" is, and if your dealer doesn't know that, find someone qualified to work on your car.

 

 

[...]I just dont want to get taken for more money than need be....what do you think?

Since some sensor faults are caused by electrical system problems, I'd start by verifying that the alternator, battery, and associated wiring are in good condition. A poor electrical connection can cause excessive ripple voltage that can lead to sensor data corruption, for example. Not to , but I'd next check the VSS situation, since the speedometer not working is far from the only thing that is related to those sensors. Once that's resolved, move on to the other symptoms if they still exist.

[johnceggleston]

but I'd next check the VSS situation, since the speedometer not working is far from the only thing that is related to those sensors. Once that's resolved, move on to the other symptoms if they still exist.

 

 

the front speed sensor (VSS#2) sends to the speedometer AND it disconnects from the wiring harness at the sensor. very easy to remove and replace. the rear speed sensor (VSS#1) sends to the ecu/tcu regarding AWD power. this sensor does not disconnect from the wiring harness. the other end of the wire is tied into the wiring connector on the transmission, one of 12 or 15(?). so i'd address the front one , VSS#2, first. doing the rear will mean a wire splice, this leads me to believe it rarely fails... maybe.

 

john

[nipper]

start by replacing the bad VSS sensor. That is a good/bad item, no imbetween. Without either VSS operating, you wont have AWD, and the car may go into limp mode. What is supposed to happen is when one VSS fails, the other takes over and operates the spedo. Its possible you have 2 bad sensors (examine the wire harness) and your car can be in limp mode

 

The ignition coil thing.... they may have hit it on the head, but if its been over 80K since a plug/wire replacement do that yourself. Also spray the oil with a water filled water bottle one evening with the car running and see if there are any sparks (cracked coil tower).

 

What have you done if anything since the original thread....

 

nipper

[OB99W]

VSS location and exact interaction with the ECU and TCU seem to vary with model type and year. For some info, see:

http://endwrench.com/pdf/feb2004pdf/4EAT.pdf

http://endwrench.com/images/pdfs/4EATInfo.pdf

[funcle]

Ok, heres the deal: mom to the rescue!

 

--Im getting the dealership certified tune up, all genuine subaru parts, and the speedo sensor replaced. The tune up oncludes all new ignition system/plugs/wires/pvc valve etc etc etc...I believe they are going to thouroughly go through the engine and replace alot of the "incidentals". (the dealer said my ignition coil was arcing)

 

--What I did, was to check the plugs/wires, not replace, and found corrosion on that #1 sparkplug/wire (so really nothing).

 

--since mom is fitting the bill for this, I think it will be covering all the bases discussed in these two threads.

 

Should I have any further problems after this, I at least have a good idea what it will be (VSS #2).

 

Without tools or a decent garage in which to work, I dont feel comfortable doing this myself, which apparently thanks to my mother, I wont have to.

 

You all rock, and thank you so much for all the advice, this is definately the place I will come in the future (if needed). Hopefully I can get this better job that Im going after and get the godly 06 GT wagon =)

 

thanks again,

jeff

[johnceggleston]

let's hear it for moms!!!

 

moms rock!!! :banana:

 

and any one else who happens to love us and is willing to help!!!