K&N Air Filter

[Virrdog]

premium gas can give some of the largest performance gains possible on some non-turbo engines. kevin documented this on the DYNO with his XT6. see results on xt6.net. advance the ignition timing and run premium. +7hp i believe. that's dyno results, not bogus advertising math. and of course each vehicle/engine/computer is different.

I think we have covered that you gain hp with premium IF the ecu and/or an engine variable changes. You can't increase the ignition timing on later Subarus. You get no extra power from premium unless for some reason your engine is setting off the knock sensor in a newer Subaru. If your NA engine, which is designed for 87, is setting off the knock sensor you have other things you want to fix rather than looking for the premium pump.

 

I reiterate, we replace turbo's and engines because of K&N air filters.

Great argument... if only there was one shred of evidence to base it on. Other than the fact its possible a large number of powerstroke guys like the performance benefits of the K&N - therefore lots of blown engines have a really popular mod installed. You have no idea how many unblown engines are running around with K&N filters.

 

Another great argument would be the fart-can mufflers Civic guys put on their cars causes the self-destructing distributors seen on so many Honda engines... because almost every car that comes in with a red dust throwing distributor has a fart can on it. :-\

[NoahDL88]

Not worth my time arguing anymore, since you're all ASE certified mechanics, do what you want. I'll never run a oil impregnated gauze filter after what i've seen in this industry.

[Virrdog]

Not worth my time arguing anymore, since you're all ASE certified mechanics, do what you want. I'll never run a oil impregnated gauze filter after what i've seen in this industry.

No one is arguing with you. Just waiting for actual evidence instead of anecdotes about what you've seen and how long you've been in the industry. This is the internet, anyone can say what you've said and not back it up. You can be different and help us make the change if the danger is real.

 

But I also notice that we don't happen to drive turbo-diesels...

[uniberp]

See this test:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest1.htm

 

I use premium oil filters, but oem paper air filters.

 

No one is arguing with you. Just waiting for actual evidence instead of anecdotes about what you've seen and how long you've been in the industry. This is the internet, anyone can say what you've said and not back it up. You can be different and help us make the change if the danger is real.

 

But I also notice that we don't happen to drive turbo-diesels...

[idosubaru]

the power stroke diesels (or other motors) could vary from NA or Subaru stuff. maybe different vehicles have different tolerances? i don't know any subaru peeps with a blown motor due to after market filtration. everyone on this issue should avoid making a general statement based on very small samples...like if i said "K&N's are better because i've had them in a couple 200,000 plus mile subaru's". that doesn't mean anything to me. i know they let more stuff in, now does that matter or not, i'm not sure. the power in this group is that we can amass the many many samples and information that might show a trend.

 

i'm an aerospace engineer, work at NASA Goddard Space Flight Center and have experience in a clean room working environment assembling vehicles that have to be launched and can never be touched again once in orbit....no maintenance, no air filters, no changes, no touchy touch for decades. i'm not ASE certified but i do have some background in things technical and have disassembled a few motors in my day. i'm curious, not trying to argue.

 

that bobistheoilguy testing is nice. my interpretation is that it shows very little (sorry bob!). even the stock "golden child" air box filter let in a signficant amount of dirt based on the "color test". the significance in this testing to me was not the difference between them but that they all let in a fair amount of particulate matter. still can't see that small percentage difference doing anything. recall that this was only a 500 mile test.....over the course of 100's of thousands of miles i can't imagine that the K&N destroys a motor and the stock does'nt do anything...it still let in alot of stuff.

 

much of it gets burnt, carbonized, and blown through the exhaust and never does anything anyway. that a tiny tiny percentage could be the sole cause of engine failure is hard for me to understand still.

[uniberp]

If you really want to get into it, it would require sampling the size, hardness and distribution of particles from what was captured in a filter to determine it's effectiveness.

 

IOW, one large rock would do far more damage than an equal mass of dust. IMO.

 

Additionally, restriction of the air intake will result in compensating vacuum pulls from the crankcase, valve stems, etc., and alterations of the mix, although still within acceptable ECU parameters. That may create additional solid residue which then has to be dealt with.

 

 

the power stroke diesels (or other motors) could vary from NA or Subaru stuff. maybe different vehicles have different tolerances? i don't know any subaru peeps with a blown motor due to after market filtration. everyone on this issue should avoid making a general statement based on very small samples...like if i said "K&N's are better because i've had them in a couple 200,000 plus mile subaru's". that doesn't mean anything to me. i know they let more stuff in, now does that matter or not, i'm not sure. the power in this group is that we can amass the many many samples and information that might show a trend.

 

i'm an aerospace engineer, work at NASA Goddard Space Flight Center and have experience in a clean room working environment assembling vehicles that have to be launched and can never be touched again once in orbit....no maintenance, no air filters, no changes, no touchy touch for decades. i'm not ASE certified but i do have some background in things technical and have disassembled a few motors in my day. i'm curious, not trying to argue.

 

that bobistheoilguy testing is nice. my interpretation is that it shows very little (sorry bob!). even the stock "golden child" air box filter let in a signficant amount of dirt based on the "color test". the significance in this testing to me was not the difference between them but that they all let in a fair amount of particulate matter. still can't see that small percentage difference doing anything. recall that this was only a 500 mile test.....over the course of 100's of thousands of miles i can't imagine that the K&N destroys a motor and the stock does'nt do anything...it still let in alot of stuff.

 

much of it gets burnt, carbonized, and blown through the exhaust and never does anything anyway. that a tiny tiny percentage could be the sole cause of engine failure is hard for me to understand still.

[1 Lucky Texan]

If you really want to get into it, it would require sampling the size, hardness and distribution of particles from what was captured in a filter to determine it's effectiveness.

 

IOW, one large rock would do far more damage than an equal mass of dust. IMO.

 

Additionally, restriction of the air intake will result in compensating vacuum pulls from the crankcase, valve stems, etc., and alterations of the mix, although still within acceptable ECU parameters. That may create additional solid residue which then has to be dealt with.

 

Yeah, its one thing for the UOAs at http://www.bobistheoilguy.com to show increased silicon after a switch to K&N - but is that from the oil the filter is charged with? real dust particles? and what size are they? 10 micron is gonna be bad - 1 micron....not so much.

 

me, I'm sticking with paper.

 

Carl