auto trans additives??

[michaelbteam]

Just bought a "backup" 93 Legacy wagon with 175000 miles for $1000. The seller did mention the auto trans might be a little tired, shifting a little slower than it used to. It runs well but seems to hesitate ever so slightly going from 2nd to third, I think--compared to my other 93 wagon, auto. I've searched some threads for additive advice to prolong the inevitable demise of a tired auto trans, and wonder if anyone has anything new [or old] to add on the subject. Thanks in advance for your wisdom.

[nipper]

Forget additives, just flush the tranny. Additives just delay things. It sounds like to me its just gummed up.

 

nipper

[michaelbteam]

Thanks Nipper...the tranny has cherry red fluid and the seller said it was changed last year. Maybe I'll do it again.

[rverdoold]

I am going to flush my tranny and front diff tomorrow. Are there any things where i should take care of?

 

Tranny is about 4.5 litres (quarters) for the flush i thought or is it more, just because a 5l bottle of Dexron 2 is expensive over here.

And for the front diff any specialities??

 

I thought additives are not good because they are made to solve probles which should not occur during normal usage and flushings.

[nipper]

Thanks Nipper...the tranny has cherry red fluid and the seller said it was changed last year. Maybe I'll do it again.

 

If the fluid is red and clean, you may have a seal thats is going bad.

Have you tried manually shifting the tranny to see what happens. This would tell you if its a mechanical or electrical problem

 

nipper

[mtsmiths]

When The Pretty One drives her 2000 Legaback (A/T, 185,000 mi) the shifting isn't smooth, (particulary 1st to 2nd) not awful, but harder shifts and very slight hesitation. Downshifts are virtually unnoticable.

 

When I drive it (I won't say I'm agressive, just a little more 'spirited' than she at the wheel), the shifts are as smooth as a brand new car.

 

I know the TCU 'learns' and adjusts to driving style. Does her car like me better? Can I erase the memory and allow her to retrain it? Are we heading toward serious tranny issues (I know it's inevetible, someday).

 

We plan to keep this car to 300,000 mi, or 2009, whichever happens first. She feels the shifts and started talking about replacing the car. I asked "if you weren't worried about the transmission would you sell the car?". She said no, other than that she loves it, so I pointed out that even if we needed a new tranny, it was cheaper than a new car, to which she agreed.

[idosubaru]

i wouldn't try any additives unless the trans was to the point where you wanted another transmission or another vehicle. when you have nothing to loose, then maybe, otherwise i've never used any.

 

did the last owner tell you why they did a transmission fluid flush? if you can talk to them again find out why they did one. ask if it alleviated any symptoms it may have had before the flush. and ask if they did an actual flush or just a drain and refill. if they did the later than you may consider doing it again since that only removes some of the ATF (very different than an engine oil change). they may not answer the first two honestly or may not want to since they sold you the car, but they shouldn't mind letting you know if it was an actual flush or just a drain and refill.

 

you may want to try unplugging the shift resistor on the front passengers side strut tower. i unplug them everytime i get a new Subaru. it causes the transmission to shift a firmer/quicker/with less delay. on the first generation of 4EAT's in the XT6, the 2nd-3rd shift is kind of long and delayed. i'm not that picky or anal about my vehicles but this delay is annoying. someone on xt6.net even had a valve body job done to their transmission to help and it still did it. so i unplug the shift resistor. (or you can buy a $50 kit that does basically the same thing). unplugging it firms up and quickens the shifts and lessens that delay between gears. it will cause your transmission light to blink though as it is a component that's unplugged. if you ever needed to see if your transmission is really throwing a code (instead of just blinking because that one resistor is unplugged), just plug it back in and start the car up. the light won't blink any more. this may mitigate the lag you're feeling.

[michaelbteam]

Thanks for the auto trans tips. By the way, when I changed the fulid on my other 93 legacy this summer, I jacked the front end up and let it down while draining and ALL of the fluid drained out [pan and filter removed.]

[NorthWet]

... and ALL of the fluid drained out [pan and filter removed.]

8-9 quarts? It usually takes more work than that to drain the TC. Did you remove the cooler crossover pipe when your removed the filter?

[Kilroy]

If the fluid is red and clean, you may have a seal thats is going bad.

Have you tried manually shifting the tranny to see what happens. This would tell you if its a mechanical or electrical problem

 

nipper

 

 

Why is red and clean fluid a bad thing?

[teppichkopf]

I had a '93 Legacy auto that had slow and harsh shifts from 1-2-3. Put some Lucas Trans Fix in. Made no difference at all.

[tcspeer]

He's from New York, thats not what he meant, he meant if the fluid is clean and red then maybe there is some other problem. (not that their is any thing wrong with New York)

Why is red and clean fluid a bad thing?

[michaelbteam]

8-9 quarts? It usually takes more work than that to drain the TC. Did you remove the cooler crossover pipe when your removed the filter?

I think all 8 and a half quarts came out and I believe I removed the crossover pipe--I need to go back over my notes. I measured the drained amount and was careful when I filled it with the last couple of quarts, checking dipstick level often to avoid overfill. I was surprised too. I'll see if the same thing happens with the other 93 auto.

[porcupine73]

I had that happen on 4eat phase I also, dropped the pan and in order to remove the filter it seemed this pipe/tube had to come out, which when removed another gallon or more of ATF came out over the next few minutes. I don't know if that was the purpose of having that removable tube run over the filter but I thought it was pretty slick to sort of make sure it all comes out when changing the filter. In subsequent changes when not doing the filter I just used the pump and dump method.

 

I've tried that lucas AT fix goop too, man that stuff was so thick it was hard to get it down the dipstick/fill hole. Didn't seem to make any difference and haven't used it since. I agree unless it's a last ditch effort I probably wouldn't use anything like that as good fresh ATF has cleaning properties anyway.

[bdecriscio]

I had that happen on 4eat phase I also, dropped the pan and in order to remove the filter it seemed this pipe/tube had to come out, which when removed another gallon or more of ATF came out over the next few minutes. I don't know if that was the purpose of having that removable tube run over the filter but I thought it was pretty slick to sort of make sure it all comes out when changing the filter. In subsequent changes when not doing the filter I just used the pump and dump method.

 

I've tried that lucas AT fix goop too, man that stuff was so thick it was hard to get it down the dipstick/fill hole. Didn't seem to make any difference and haven't used it since. I agree unless it's a last ditch effort I probably wouldn't use anything like that as good fresh ATF has cleaning properties anyway.

 

I've used the Lucas product for a different problem and was very well pleased with the results. I have a 99 outback with the auto transmission. My problem was a delay in engaging when shifting into drive. I'm also a big believer in fluid changes but I had very recently done a power flush as routine maintenance when this new problem developed. I took a chance and drained out as much fluid as I get could get w/o a power flush (about 7 quarts) and added the Lucas product. This was about 7 months ago and the problem has never come back. I'm not knowlegeable enough to be sure of the why's of how it corrected the problem, maybe just the second change of the fluid did the trick, but it was certainly better than a new/ rebuilt tranny. Also some of the older posts on the nessesity of sometimes multiple fluid changes are helpful when dealing with transmission problems

[jib]

Why is red and clean fluid a bad thing?

 

It's not a bad thing. It's just that if the fluid is good, there might be a seal issue.

 

It also doesn't mean that it's just a very recent change of fluid in an otherwise gummed up tranny. Only time will reveal that.

 

jack

[njdrsubaru]

NOOOOO DO NOT FLUSH!!!!! it s happened to me many times with used legacys, as soon as i flush the trannies, they would go on the next few weeks, just drain it and replace the the fluid and also add Lucas transmission fix, that works wonderful

[nipper]

NOOOOO DO NOT FLUSH!!!!! it s happened to me many times with used legacys, as soon as i flush the trannies, they would go on the next few weeks, just drain it and replace the the fluid and also add Lucas transmission fix, that works wonderful

 

Then there must have been another problem, as many many many on here have done flushes at high mileage with no problem (me included). This goes for any compuetrized tranny (far less moving parts inside the tranny). Do NOT use a chemical flush, just put in new fluid.

 

nipper

[ericem]

Then there must have been another problem, as many many many on here have done flushes at high mileage with no problem (me included). This goes for any compuetrized tranny (far less moving parts inside the tranny). Do NOT use a chemical flush, just put in new fluid.

 

nipper

 

ok, well i gota to do a tranny flush soon, becase now my AWD kicks in quick, but i can feel it really good, u take of them thump! and it then goes. But why cant i just open the drain plug, drain whatever is there, then refill according to the dip stick? like a regular oil change? like when i first checked the tranny dip stick after my tranny was fixed, the idiots who screwed me, overfilled my tranny ALOT, like a little above full on the hot side of the dip stick, and it was cold the tranny. I drainedit to the point where it sits at full on cold a little above though, and i drove it around for about 40km? and the dip stick was like 3/5 the way up on the hot side, is that alright? But whenever i look at the dipstick, its has bubbles on it? is that right?

[nipper]

ok, well i gota to do a tranny flush soon, becase now my AWD kicks in quick, but i can feel it really good, u take of them thump! and it then goes. But why cant i just open the drain plug, drain whatever is there, then refill according to the dip stick? like a regular oil change? like when i first checked the tranny dip stick after my tranny was fixed, the idiots who screwed me, overfilled my tranny ALOT, like a little above full on the hot side of the dip stick, and it was cold the tranny. I drainedit to the point where it sits at full on cold a little above though, and i drove it around for about 40km? and the dip stick was like 3/5 the way up on the hot side, is that alright? But whenever i look at the dipstick, its has bubbles on it? is that right?

 

you cant do that because 75% of the fluid is inside the tranny, mostly the torque converter. Plus there is oil in the internal plumbing and the cooler that a simple drain wont get out. Now you can do the drain trick three times and that will work.

Bubbles are BAD> Your heart cant ppump bubbles, neither can an automatic tranny. Bubbles can cause early clutch failure, along with odd shifting. The tranny fluid not only engages things, but also keeps the clutches wet. If there is a bubble, it is possible to make a hotspot on a clutch surface. this happens often enough the clutch will burn up. Also idf the bubles get in a internal line, it can delay a shift, causing the clutches to slip, and shortening thier lives.

 

nipper

[ericem]

you cant do that because 75% of the fluid is inside the tranny, mostly the torque converter. Plus there is oil in the internal plumbing and the cooler that a simple drain wont get out. Now you can do the drain trick three times and that will work.

Bubbles are BAD> Your heart cant ppump bubbles, neither can an automatic tranny. Bubbles can cause early clutch failure, along with odd shifting. The tranny fluid not only engages things, but also keeps the clutches wet. If there is a bubble, it is possible to make a hotspot on a clutch surface. this happens often enough the clutch will burn up. Also idf the bubles get in a internal line, it can delay a shift, causing the clutches to slip, and shortening thier lives.

 

nipper

 

hmm:mad:

[nipper]

hmm:mad:

 

:-\

:-p

 

 

nipper

[ericem]

lol, well is it typically difficult to change the fluid? or should i go to my subaru dealer and let them do it? atleast they got a houest and i cant watch them:)

[porcupine73]

You don't have to go to the dealer; if you're even a moderate wrencher you can just yank one of the hoses to the in radiator tank ATF cooler, put some cheap vinyl hose from harbor freight on both ends (that way you don't have to know which is the outlet) and put them securely into a bucket or some other container.

 

Then after putting in the new fluid, I add an extra quart, then pump out two quarts, then add two quarts, etc., until the fluid coming out looks fresh. It's a little more economical than doing several drain&fills as you'll have more fresh fluid in the AT using less fluid to get to that point.

 

The, at least Subaru's I have, are awesome because most hose connections are just hose onto a barb, so there's no special fancy proprietary connectors to deal with there.

 

AT's that have issues after a fluid change or flush are often poorly maintained or high mileage; sometimes things in the valve body or whatever wear and deposits build up, and then the flush and new fluid dislodge those deposits and then problems start. If it's on of those quick change flushes without changing the screen or external filter then the screen could become plugged.

 

Most ATF's and oils contain anti-foamant, which I think is silicone.

[ericem]

You don't have to go to the dealer; if you're even a moderate wrencher you can just yank one of the hoses to the in radiator tank ATF cooler, put some cheap vinyl hose from harbor freight on both ends (that way you don't have to know which is the outlet) and put them securely into a bucket or some other container.

 

Then after putting in the new fluid, I add an extra quart, then pump out two quarts, then add two quarts, etc., until the fluid coming out looks fresh. It's a little more economical than doing several drain&fills as you'll have more fresh fluid in the AT using less fluid to get to that point.

 

The, at least Subaru's I have, are awesome because most hose connections are just hose onto a barb, so there's no special fancy proprietary connectors to deal with there.

 

AT's that have issues after a fluid change or flush are often poorly maintained or high mileage; sometimes things in the valve body or whatever wear and deposits build up, and then the flush and new fluid dislodge those deposits and then problems start. If it's on of those quick change flushes without changing the screen or external filter then the screen could become plugged.

 

Most ATF's and oils contain anti-foamant, which I think is silicone.

 

my dad is the man who could do the job, i could to but, i like going to my subaru dealer instead lol. So ill probably just get it drained,but not flushed, but you think the slight bang will be gone after the tranny flush? like it just makes the bump when u take off in rain or slippery conditons, so this is me taking off vvvrvvvvvvv see that r thats where the awd kicks in. And another thing, whenever i get off the gas there is a wining noise in the back, like i can feel it downshift, whenever i get off the gas, why? so anoyying lol.