Syonyk Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 After pulling my engine, doing all the oil seals, cleaning it up, and spending 8 hours putting the engine back in... It still leaks. Badly. And I punched a hole in the radiator while putting the engine back in. I'm evidently incompetent. One possibility is that while misreading torque values late at night, I snapped off an oil pan bolt after having crushed the gasket pretty badly. Is this a possible place for a leak? I put Ultra Grey along the oil pan to help the gasket seal, and there does seem to be oil dripping off the bottom of the oil pan, which is an improvement from dripping onto the front cat. However, my driver's side exhaust pipe is still smoking pretty badly, and I don't know if it's just burning off old oil or I screwed up that cam cover when I put it back together. I'm REALLY not looking forward to having to pull the engine again, and I don't think there's room on the driver's side to pull that cam cover off with the engine in the car. So, would overtightening an oil pan bolt hard enough to snap it cause a leak? And, if so, how do I remove said snapped oil pan bolt? I've never had success with an EZ-Out or such, and I don't even know if I can get a drill in there. Also, with a small hole in the radiator, will radiator stop-leak work, or will that damage other things in the process? Finally, am I, in fact, a total moron for messing up a simple reseal this badly? -=Russ=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchsub Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 you say all the oil seals? So you did the rear main seal? Thats where my engine leaked the worst. If you oil pan is leaking i wouldnt think it would touch your exhaust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syonyk Posted October 27, 2006 Author Share Posted October 27, 2006 Yea, the rear main was leaking and I replaced it. For all I know, I folded part of the seal over when I put things back together. I haven't sorted out exactly where it's leaking yet. It didn't seem to be leaking onto the crossmember, though, but I haven't driven it enough to really find out. -=Russ=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchsub Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 well if its leaking onto your exhaust and burning off its either leaking from the waaaayy back of the oil pan (something that you could easily find out) or the rear main seal. thats my best guess not seeing where its burning off on the exhaust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davalos Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 Dude, that sucks!!!!! Nothing worse than wiping your hands clean & getting the grease out from underneath your fingernails, turning the key with that semi-nervous smile, and realizing that all the work you just did might have been for naught. And even WORSE is the experience of going the the EXACT SAME THING momentarily to acieve the very thing that in your opinion should already be done! Ugh! Been there, Dude. Sucks rump roast. Honestly, for me, sometimes it's good just to take a break - not think about it for a bit, and then get back to it - it's a pick-me-up that often you need. If you've got someone with a good Subie-brain who can go-over what you did, that's also a good help - plus, it's moral support, which you might need more than anything else right now ... if you've got a power washer, you can blast-off the manifold & see if it's still leaking there. Sounds like just one of those "DOH!" things we've all been thru @ one point or another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syonyk Posted October 27, 2006 Author Share Posted October 27, 2006 Yea, problem is that I need this car for work (the motorcycle isn't so great in the winter), and I'm going to be moving across the state with it in a month. So... I guess as long as it's not leaking too badly to drive, I can live with it & just throw cardboard under it. I'll see if I can find out exactly where the leak is coming from as I drive it today. The other thing is I've sort of worn out my welcome at the garage I did the work in - it was supposed to take 2-3 days, but as a result of Subaru giving me the WRONG REAR MAIN SEAL, and not having the right one in stock, it took closer to a week. And I won't have an engine lift at the place I'm moving. *sigh* I really hate being incompetent sometimes. Is it possible to replace the oil pan gasket with the engine more-or-less still in the car? Pull the motor mounts, lift it up, get at it from the underside? -=Russ=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virrdog Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 You're not completely incompetent. Expecting to do something perfectly the first time ever is a pretty high expectation. Lessons learned the hard way stick longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchsub Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 we've all been there..ur not incompetent. Is this an EA81 or 82? I know on the EA81's the factory actually drilled holes in the crossmember so you could get the oil pan off without removing the engine. If yours is an EA82 check and see if its the same. I did an oil pan gasket on my first suby without taking the engine out or undoing the motor mounts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syonyk Posted October 27, 2006 Author Share Posted October 27, 2006 EA82. Expecting to do something at least vaguely right enough to not have to pull the engine again is reasonable, though. It's leaking down the rear of the oil pan & dripping off the bottom of it. So... probably the rear main again, right? The missing bolt is on the side of the oil pan near the front. -=Russ=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatchsub Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 well on the EA81's if its the rear main it leaks between the tranny and the engine and down the back of the crossmember. You might have just overtightened the oil pan bolts and crushed the gasket causing it to leak. If it were me i would take a few hours and get a new oil pan gasket and pull that one off and try again. Also when you have it off examine the oil pan and make sure its not bent up if you over tightened it. You might get lucky with that being the only cause of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 27, 2006 Share Posted October 27, 2006 When you do that pan gasket again (dealer ONLY for those), coat the whole thing in a thin layer of RTV and let it dry completely before you install it. Yes - you can do it without pulling the engine - it's just a pain in the butt. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syonyk Posted October 27, 2006 Author Share Posted October 27, 2006 When you do that pan gasket again (dealer ONLY for those), coat the whole thing in a thin layer of RTV and let it dry completely before you install it. Yes - you can do it without pulling the engine - it's just a pain in the butt. GD Ok, I'll try that. It looks like based on where the leak is coming from (off the oil pan) that it's the oil pan gasket. Are there any tricks to getting it out other than "remove engine mounts, angle engine up, unscrew, wiggle"? -=Russ=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davalos Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 Rough numbers, how much is a complete seal kit running these days from the Dealer? And does that include the oil pan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooziewhatsit Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 Rough numbers, how much is a complete seal kit running these days from the Dealer? And does that include the oil pan? I just ordered most of the stuff needed to reseal an EA82 (already had some stuff). If you buy individual seals rather than the kit, it should run you roughly $75-$85 from 1stsubaruparts.com. I don't know what the entire kit includes, or how much it costs. I also have a list of all the SOA part numbers you'd need, if you want them. -Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syonyk Posted October 28, 2006 Author Share Posted October 28, 2006 Rough numbers, how much is a complete seal kit running these days from the Dealer? And does that include the oil pan? The cost for all the rubber bits sealing the engine, as well as the oil pan gasket, was around $110-$120 at the local Subaru dealership. This included IIRC the following: Front & rear main seals Cam shaft oil seals Cam shaft front o-rings (related to the oil seals) Cam cover o-rings (metal reinforced) Valve cover seals Oil pan gasket Oil pump seals (both the "Mickey Mouse" gasket & the o-ring) -=Russ=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davalos Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 If you buy individual seals rather than the kit, it should run you roughly $75-$85 from 1stsubaruparts.com. I don't know what the entire kit includes, or how much it costs. I have read lots of places here that the Dealer is the place to be, is that the case? Are they just that much better? And do you gyus know what makes them better? Are we talking thickness, or quality of the rubber/cork, etc? Not meaning to be picky, I just like to know these things for some reason. :cool: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 28, 2006 Share Posted October 28, 2006 *some* dealer gaskets are best. Namely: Intake, Exhaust, oil pan, oil pump, and cam tower o-rings. The rest you can (and should IMO) get from Fel-Pro. They have superior head gaskets to the dealer. Anything else I didn't mention is inconsequencial, or can be made to work well with RTV. Aftermarket pan gaskets aren't made with quality cork - the shape of the EA series steel pan flange is such that inferior cork will be cut in half by the bolt ridge on the flange. Dealer gasket, and a coat of RTV all over it. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syonyk Posted November 2, 2006 Author Share Posted November 2, 2006 AND, my crossmember is covered in oil again. With puddles. I did notice that the top of the cam cover with the oil fill tube in it is a bit moist (read, covered in a layer of oil). Is it possible that I'm dumping enough oil out this to get the crossmember wet? Or did I screw up royally on the rear main install? -=Russ=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davalos Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 Wow, that sucks, Dude - wish I knew the answer to that one. I can't imagine you'd be spilling that much to get the tube & crossmember that covered ... damn, Dude - this must be really Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syonyk Posted November 2, 2006 Author Share Posted November 2, 2006 Yea. That's a good way of putting it. I can take the car to a mechanic, but to do the rear main & such, it'll be enough that I won't be able to pay tuition for grad school in a few months. So that's not really an option. I guess I'll just let it leak if I can't figure it out. I'm going to a carwash later today that I just found that has the engine degreaser stuff. I'm going to clean everything I can, and then hopefully get some clues as to what all is still leaking. I don't own an engine lift, either. :-/ I borrowed a friend's lift to do the reseal, and I could use it again, but... it was in his garage for a week, and I'm pretty sure doing that again might be pushing it. -=Russ=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syonyk Posted November 2, 2006 Author Share Posted November 2, 2006 Well... I pulled the tube off, scraped all the gasket clean, and made a new gasket with some Permatex Ultra Grey. I then wedged a paper towel under the bellhousing, and went for a drive. It came out dirty, but not oily. I found a car wash a few nights ago with engine cleaner, so I went & blasted the engine bay out over lunch, to get rid of all the oil on the crossmember & the cam cover on that side. So far, there's no new oil on the crossmember, and the cam cover is dry. It may have just been that gasket leaking badly. One of the bolts didn't seem to be particularly tight when I took it off. I'll just keep tabs on it & see what it does, I guess. I really don't want to have to pull the engine again before spring. -=Russ=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syonyk Posted November 3, 2006 Author Share Posted November 3, 2006 And, it's the rear main. Crossmember is coated in oil again, the cam cover is clean. *feels like just driving the car into a brick wall with him in it* Is a leaking rear main going to turn into a really bad leak, or can I drive on it for a while? It was sunk slightly past flush, so I'm not concerned about it trying to pop out. -=Russ=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syonyk Posted November 3, 2006 Author Share Posted November 3, 2006 Erm... Someone else suggested that my PVC system may be clogged, causing pressure & leaks. Is this possible, given that the inside of my engine was pretty dirty when I opened it up? Also, I noticed while nosing around that the oil fill cap was on tightly. I recalled that I've tended to put it on, then twist it back a bit so it seals tightly. When it's in the "normal" locked position, it rattles around & definitely seems like it could vent some pressure. I had assumed things were just a bit worn. Is this another thing that could cause leaks? -=Russ=- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 3, 2006 Share Posted November 3, 2006 oil fill should be tight. If the PCV system isn't working it can blow seals right out of the engine - I had a cam seal push right out the front and was just hanging there on the cam. BIG leak. Like 1 quart every 10 miles big. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virrdog Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 Also, I noticed while nosing around that the oil fill cap was on tightly. I recalled that I've tended to put it on, then twist it back a bit so it seals tightly. When it's in the "normal" locked position, it rattles around & definitely seems like it could vent some pressure. I had assumed things were just a bit worn. My Oil fill cap does the exact same thing. Is a new cap needed or is there a seal missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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