mikeshoup Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Might as well check for compression if you're going to change the spark plugs. However, I still think you should pull the intake boot off and have someone crank it while looking down the TB. You should see fuel spraying from the injector. Also, the Fuel Pump won't 'cycle' with the connectors disconnected. It will come on for a very short time. I almost never hear mine. Disconnect the electrical connector at the fuel pump. Hook up your VOM to the body side connector, and have someone turn on the car. You should measure a voltage for a brief moment. (Mine is so brief that the numbers on the meter just jump, they don't actually reach 12V. Its just too quick) Then check for spark. If you have fuel and spark, then check for compression. Compression would be my last suspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffast Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 what he said but before throwing money at it i vote for just dumping fuel down the throat and seeing if it fires Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingbobdole Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 Also, the Fuel Pump won't 'cycle' with the connectors disconnected. It will come on for a very short time. . Is this true for the turbo too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryry46d9 Posted October 30, 2006 Share Posted October 30, 2006 on my 86' hatch i dont here the pump intill after i cycle the key from the start to run position haveing a no start problem my self good luck with the weather Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 what he said but before throwing money at it i vote for just dumping fuel down the throat and seeing if it fires Well Jeff... it needs the basic tune up parts anyways so I might as well get some and put them in while I'm at it. Its not like it takes more then an hour to install plugs, wires, cap and rotor.... I'll pull the intake boot off and clean it out real good and look to see if I'm getting fuel into the TB... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffast Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 meh 1 cup of gas, 30 sec, less than an hour and allot of parts, i'll go the gas route first don't fix what isn't broken. if you keep fixing somthing untill it's broken you get micheal jackson ha ha i'm tired yay beer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLCGL87 Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Having the same problem with my '87 SPFI wagon. Haven't gotten to the bottom of it yet, but compression was low on pass. side of engine (2 and 4, I believe). I feel your pain! Any luck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Having the same problem with my '87 SPFI wagon. Haven't gotten to the bottom of it yet, but compression was low on pass. side of engine (2 and 4, I believe). I feel your pain! Any luck? Actually, 1 and 3 are on the passenger side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted November 1, 2006 Author Share Posted November 1, 2006 Well I think I figured it out so hold on to your butt. When I first got the car, I tried cranking it and it wanted to fire up but wasn't doing so. Now, that I scrapped the corrosion off of the inside of the disty cap, it doesn't even do that. So my thought is to replace all the stuff I was going to. Today, I ordered a new cap, rotor, plus and wires for the coupe so hopefully on Friday, I can start driving it;) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 I was under the impression that some of the ECUs did not turn the fuel pump on until the key was in "start" or the engine was running... I have read that many setups other than mine are different, but i have never heard my fuel pump cut on with the key, until the engine is being cranked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 I was under the impression that some of the ECUs did not turn the fuel pump on until the key was in "start" or the engine was running... I have read that many setups other than mine are different, but i have never heard my fuel pump cut on with the key, until the engine is being cranked. All my ECU's turn on the pump for just a few secconds when you power the ECU up. You might just have a quiet pump or are too busy getting it started.... GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 ok time for a bit of an update... Car has new NGK V-power plugs, NGK wires, cap and rotor. Car will almost start (will want to but then go back to cranking). I'm not getting fuel I think without the green connectors connected but with them connected, I can definatly hear the pump cycle like it should. Plus, I can smell the gas as well. Car has spark and timing is spot on. All fuses check out ok (fuel, ignition, etc.). Now, with the green connectors connected, and the fuel pump cycling, there is a hissing sound coming from the TB. Sounds to be coming from the injector since it only does it when the fuel pump is pumping. The car is sitting outside of my shop right now so I didn't have much light to see (dark at 5pm here!) but what does this sound like? A leaky injector? I have a spare SPFI setup from a '91 Loyale so I have some parts to swap out if need be... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Have you checked the compression of the cylinders and are you sure both timing belts are ok? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Check out the fuel pressure - should be spot on 21 psi at the TB input. It sounds like the pressure regulator on the side of the TB may not be working. If that's the case it's easy to swap them. If you don't have a pressure gauge try this - crimp the fuel return line from the regulator with a pair of vice grips and some qaurters. If it starts shut it off IMMEDIATELY, but that will indicate a bad regulator. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Check out the fuel pressure - should be spot on 21 psi at the TB input. It sounds like the pressure regulator on the side of the TB may not be working. If that's the case it's easy to swap them. If you don't have a pressure gauge try this - crimp the fuel return line from the regulator with a pair of vice grips and some qaurters. If it starts shut it off IMMEDIATELY, but that will indicate a bad regulator. GD that is an AWESOME trick. thank you. I understood what it was doing immediately, but ahdnt thought of the idea myself. i didnt re read the whole thread, just the last few posts.. have you used the big-screwdriver-stethoscope method to listen for the injector firing yet? you should be able to stick a large screwdriver anywhere on the TB and hear the thing clicking solidly with your ear on the handle of the screwdriver... while trying to start, while running, whenever... if you dont, then your injector isnt functioning for some reaon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beataru Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 Have you checked your coil??? and if your coil is working.. Then check for ground from the disty... It wont charge if it doesnt get a ground signal from the disty.... AND DONT SAY ITS NOT TRUE... I did my research! Hit it with a hammer............................................................................................................................................................................What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted November 7, 2006 Author Share Posted November 7, 2006 haven't checked compression since I don't have a gauge yet. All timing is fine (ignition and timing belts). I made sure to check them all over a couple times to rule them out. GD, I'll try that trick of yours. Is it a common problem with a car with slightly higher miles? Coil is fine, I swapped it with another one. Remember, this car just happened to die while it was being driven by the last owner, which says it was running great up until it died on him. I'm going to rule out the disty but just in case, I do have a spare in the shop... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 GD, I'll try that trick of yours. Is it a common problem with a car with slightly higher miles? Not sure how common it is, but the FSM lists it as a possible poblem. When I was doing all my R&D into the SPFI (I'm about halfway through my write up - 10 pages of just text, no pics up yet), I did a pressure test and I noticed that if I crimped the return line the pressure would spike to 50 psi. Engine still ran, but the idle speed increased about 250 RPM when I crimped it. If the regulator was not keeping the pressure at 21, then the injector wouldn't be able to open (it might still drip some) and crimping the line will take the regulator out of the picture and dead-head the pump pushing the full 50 psi to the injector. Just don't run it this way for more than a few seconds. It didn't hurt anything when I did it, so I'm sure it will be fine for testing purposes. The disty is a possibility as it's an optical crank angle sensor with some fairly sensitive electronics inside it. It might have a problem with the optical pickup circuitry. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted November 7, 2006 Share Posted November 7, 2006 have you listened for the sound of the injector solenoid activating? if its not clicking, then theres a problem right there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted November 8, 2006 Author Share Posted November 8, 2006 ok, TB is getting fuel definatly. I pulled off the intake boot and looked into the TB after cranking. Smells like fuel and has fuel vapors coming from it. I also tried doing the pinch trick on the fuel return from the FPR. So now, what next? Swap the disty? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Try spraying some starter fliud into the intake and see if that makes it fire. If that doesn't make it fire I would check the compression next. If you think it is a timing problem then mark the current position of the disty and then try turning it slighly as someone cranks it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayakertom Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 At this point, I would disconnect all of the engine electrical connectors, spray the contacts with a contact cleaner, let air dry, reconnect and then try to restart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted November 8, 2006 Author Share Posted November 8, 2006 Tried putting a little bit of starting fluid down the TB but still nothing. I haven't checked to see if I have spark at the plugs yet and since this car just randomly died on the guy, I'm going to shoot for the optical pickup in the disty. This car just made a 18 hour trip from Oregon to Wyoming maybe a month and a half ago so I don't know why compression would just all of a sudden give out without and signs or warnings. Now next question, I have a disty from a '91 SPFI Loyale in my shop. However, the 4-pin connector has been chopped off of it. Also, I have a couple 4-pin turbo distys as well which are optical instead of mechanical. Would it be easier to take the two SPFI distys and make a good one or would one of the turbo distys, say from my '89 RX, work? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beataru Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 Would it be easier to take the two SPFI distys and make a good one or would one of the turbo distys, say from my '89 RX, work? I dunno.. wait why am i even repling??? Oh... well.. im sure that you know this so.. bare with me.. thers 2 different distys and you need.. i think its electronic.. not vaccum assisted... haha rump roast-isted... sorry stupid joke, im tired... Um.. i think if you like to tinker.. then take the 2 and make a good one... is the rx disty in good working condition and... is it vaccum or elec??? I think its electric so I then would think it would be correct.. but lets let the know it alls in here talk it out!!!! Im going to bed.... Good nigh............................................................. oh yeah... the pickup is what sends the ground to the coil and says... FIRE............ BOOM! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 8, 2006 Share Posted November 8, 2006 All hot-wire MAF EA82 FI distributors are the same - regardless of SPFI, MPFI or Turbo. Just don't get anything from a flapper-door MAF and you'll be fine. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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