kayakertom Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Took my car - 87 gl ea82 spfi 3-door for DEQ and it failed. Car had new NGK plugs and wires, recent oil change. Idle @ 720rpm: hc = 362 fail, CO = 2.7 fail, CO2 = 12.2 pass 2500 rpm: hc = 166 pass, CO = 5.2 fail, CO2 = 11.5 pass Since the test on Friday, I have changed the O2 sensor, cap and rotor. Went to check timing and when I connect the green connectors the car dies and won't restart until it is disconnected. Tried loosening the distributor bolts and rotated in both direction but it still won't start with the green connectors together. When I did the timing a month or so ago, I had no problems using the green connectors. The only work I've done on the engine in the past month was a thorough cleaning of the air mass sensor and idle air valve. Have reset the timing to 25 btdc with the green connectors separate and idle increased to 900rpm. Runs very smooth in my test through 4th gear in my neighborhood. What's going on with the green connectors / vacuum advance disable? About how many degrees per 1k does the electronic advance provide? Will take it again to DEQ tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShawnW Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Just set it with the greens disconnected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Just set the timing without the engine running. Set it to 10 degrees. After the DEQ test put it back to 20. When you start it at 10 degrees, increase the idle speed to about 1000 RPM using the IAC adjuster - DO NOT touch the stop screw for the throttle plate. You must idle below I think 1200 for the test - the closer to 1200 you can get it the better, but the stock tach isn't very relaible, so shoot for 1000. Fill the tank up to 1/2 and add two bottles of acohol to the fuel (generally sold as fuel dryer, or gas anti-freeze). Whatever it says on the bottles ignore it - just use about 2 quarts. You want the alcohol as it burns hotter and cleaner. Disable your radiator fan if you can, and wait around before you go in for the test or hopefully there is a line there. You want to get the engine a little hotter than it normally runs - 200 - 210 degrees will help. Your biggest gains will be the retarded timing, and the alcohol. Oh - and if you have a fancy oil-element air cleaner (K&N etc) remove it and install a clean paper filter. The oil in them can increase your emissions. Changing your oil can help too - less disolved fuel vapor in the crank-case. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indrid cold Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Just set the timing without the engine running. Set it to 10 degrees. After the DEQ test put it back to 20. When you start it at 10 degrees, increase the idle speed to about 1000 RPM using the IAC adjuster - DO NOT touch the stop screw for the throttle plate. You must idle below I think 1200 for the test - the closer to 1200 you can get it the better, but the stock tach isn't very relaible, so shoot for 1000. Fill the tank up to 1/2 and add two bottles of acohol to the fuel (generally sold as fuel dryer, or gas anti-freeze). Whatever it says on the bottles ignore it - just use about 2 quarts. You want the alcohol as it burns hotter and cleaner. Disable your radiator fan if you can, and wait around before you go in for the test or hopefully there is a line there. You want to get the engine a little hotter than it normally runs - 200 - 210 degrees will help. Your biggest gains will be the retarded timing, and the alcohol. Oh - and if you have a fancy oil-element air cleaner (K&N etc) remove it and install a clean paper filter. The oil in them can increase your emissions. Changing your oil can help too - less disolved fuel vapor in the crank-case. GD Hey General... can you work that same kind of VODOO with the IRS? I dred the day they make us do emissions here on the East side of WA. so I better copy this post for my records as it is coming this way... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 I've been learning a lot with this Megasquirt stuff. You have to basically reverse engineer your whole engine/fuel injection system in order to set it up right. Pretty interesting stuff, but more than most people want to get into I'm afraid. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayakertom Posted November 1, 2006 Author Share Posted November 1, 2006 Well, it failed again. The timing was staticly set to 15 degees btdc (this corresponded to 19 degrees btdc dynamic without the green connectors together), the idle was increased to 1k and 2 bottles of heat added to 1/4 full gas tank. Had to wait in line for 30 minutes before the test. new numbers: Idle @ 980 rpm: hc = 213 pass, CO = 2.8 fail, CO2 = 12.2 pass 2560 rpm: hc = 53 pass, CO = .02 pass, CO2 = 14.4 pass 2nd idle @ 980 rpm: hc = 373 fail, CO = 6.0 fail, CO2 = 10.5 pass Old numbers: Idle @ 720rpm: hc = 362 fail, CO = 2.7 fail, CO2 = 12.2 pass 2500 rpm: hc = 166 pass, CO = 5.2 fail, CO2 = 11.5 pass I'll run it a bit tonite and retard the timing a little more before another go at the test tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Dangit - almost got it... Have you checked for vac leaks? Looks like your idle is the problem, and in my experience that is almost always related to missing at idle.... IE: vacuum leaks, or ignition related issues. When it drops back to idle can you hear any slight puffing out the tail-pipe? It's got to idle almost perfectly smooth in order to pass - just a few misfires and the whole cylinder's worth of fuel shoots right into the test nozzle.... GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Make sure that the coolant sensor, for the ECU not the temperture gauge, is working as it should. If it isn't, then the fuel mixture may be too rich. This is a fairly common problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffast Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 i don't reccomend trying this except as a last resort but i went through emissions with 1 bolt holding the left header on the tester was an idiot but the car blew amaisingly clean almost non existant emissions. but as stated the guy doing my car didn't care Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 you said you added 2 bottles of heat.. you can use plain denatured alcohol from home depot, if your buying something absurdly expensive instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 you said you added 2 bottles of heat.. you can use plain denatured alcohol from home depot, if your buying something absrudly expensive instead. Yes - and farm supply places are good too. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kayakertom Posted November 18, 2006 Author Share Posted November 18, 2006 Update, the gl 3-door finally passed emissions today! It turned out that the problem was low compression on one cylinder - I guess this pushes out unburned fuel. Anyway, the fix was to replace the 1-3 cylinder head (had a rebuilt one in my stash of parts ready to go). In Oregon, if your registration is up, you can get two 3 week trip permits and then if you can't get the car through emissions, you have to wait a whole calender year to try again. New emissions results: Idle @ 900rpm: hc = 16 pass, CO = 0.01 pass 2500 rpm: hc = 27 pass, CO = 0.43 pass Now I have to focus on my 87 dl wagon which also failed. The intake valve seals really need to be replaced - lots of blue smoke when it starts cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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