Sonicfrog Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 OK. I'm not really going recite the naughty pirate shanty. The real question is: "What's that knocking in my engine??". Since I repaired the head gaskets on the overheated 87 T-Wag I've had a persistent knock. When the engine is cold, you almost can't hear it at all. When the enigine is at normal op temp, it is fairely loud, even if the RPM is eqaul to the cold start setting, @ about 1.4 RPMs. The knock is eminating from the engine, but it more pronounced in the cabin. When you stand outside the car you don't hear it as much, unless you pull in to a drive thru and hear it echo off the wall. The engine runs pretty smooth, but normal, non-flooring acceleration seems to develope in mini-surges. The engine isn't throwing any codes. I'm wondering if the khock sensor is damaged enough, due to the overeating, to not prevent knocking, but it is not damaged enough to throw a code. Any thoughts??? PS. As many of you know, I now have the 2 core radiator installed. I've taken two 700+ mile trips, containing steep grades, and the temp has never gone above the 1/8th mark. I highly recommend upgrading to that radiator if you have a turbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffast Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 might be a rod knock, sounds kinda like my six did when it had one can you upload an audio file? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Rod knocks are faintly metalic, and will be almost totally quiet at idle in a flat four. They mostly show up under load - accelerating, etc. Then about 1 mile before it blows it will get REALLY, REALLY loud and then it's over. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgd73 Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Rod knocks are faintly metalic, and will be almost totally quiet at idle in a flat four. They mostly show up under load - accelerating, etc. Then about 1 mile before it blows it will get REALLY, REALLY loud and then it's over. GD Yes indeed, that sucks. I have yet to do that to an old soob. The problems to go that far must be real obvious if you inspect closer to engine, like oil pump, even bad bearings lubed go a looooong way in the ea82. The cylinders all balance each other out- unlike the inline monstrosities I have annhilated simply because my foot is on the throttle. . A knock in the old soob may not even need bearings in other words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Yes indeed, that sucks. I have yet to do that to an old soob. The problems to go that far must be real obvious if you inspect closer to engine, like oil pump, even bad bearings lubed go a looooong way in the ea82. The cylinders all balance each other out- unlike the inline monstrosities I have annhilated simply because my foot is on the throttle. . A knock in the old soob may not even need bearings in other words. It depends. I blew an EA81 rod because of poor oil pressure, and drowning the engine in swamp water too many times. The car had a digital cluster originally, and so no oil pressure guage. Only an idiot light, which came on far to late to correct the problem. Consequently, I'm now the USMB oil pressure nazi. The engine had 165,000 on it - may she rest in peace. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beataru Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 did you over revv it any time... i mean any... and a significant over rev? im talking about 8000+ ???????? You could have broken rings ringland... but highly unlikely.. do a compression test and then if somethings amiss drop a tablespoon of oil in that cyl and do a cyl leakage test... if you dont have the stuff to preform this than... i dunno.. hehe... find a buddy???? But what i described is unlikely but all too posible! hope it helps oh yeah... and does it misfire under acceleration??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgd73 Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 It depends. I blew an EA81 rod because of poor oil pressure, and drowning the engine in swamp water too many times. The car had a digital cluster originally, and so no oil pressure guage. Only an idiot light, which came on far to late to correct the problem. Consequently, I'm now the USMB oil pressure nazi. The engine had 165,000 on it - may she rest in peace. GD Upon taking my ea82 apart I never realized until then, that the oil pump rides the seam of the block. I would guess there are failures ,not breaking necessarily, just hardness integrity,with the bolts that hold the block together and allowing vibration over the years (fatigue- starts micronically first, attacking tightest tolerances.)Oil pump needs precision vibrationless. Alot of heat and time could do that integrity in. In cold environments , the EA82's naturally run until you literally get sick of the car. I was in southern PA from Maine before I ever saw a temp guage go beyond halfway in my sube and stay there contently for any length of time. I was startled to see the amount of posts about oil and pressures and leaks since I have been hanging out here at usmb. My car had 161k a very hard life, and the only leaks were my sloppiness. I will clean up the 13 year old pump and call it a good spare part. I have bent pushrods, even new ones, for reasons I haven't figured out yet. I like the overhead cams and belts of the ea82. In a roundabout way I am certain it helped oil flows without pushrods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonicfrog Posted October 31, 2006 Author Share Posted October 31, 2006 did you over revv it any time... i mean any... and a significant over rev? im talking about 8000+ ???????? You could have broken rings ringland... but highly unlikely.. do a compression test and then if somethings amiss drop a tablespoon of oil in that cyl and do a cyl leakage test... if you dont have the stuff to preform this than... i dunno.. hehe... find a buddy???? But what i described is unlikely but all too posible! hope it helps oh yeah... and does it misfire under acceleration??? HA!!! I had the crappy 3 speed automatic at the time, so every time I drove on the freeway, I over revved it:grin::grin:. No. the highest RPM was 4300 on the freeway. But that is when I overheated it. I'm passing by the J-Yard today and might get another knock sensor for $7.00 just to check if there is a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted October 31, 2006 Share Posted October 31, 2006 Upon taking my ea82 apart I never realized until then, that the oil pump rides the seam of the block. I would guess there are failures ,not breaking necessarily, just hardness integrity,with the bolts that hold the block together and allowing vibration over the years (fatigue- starts micronically first, attacking tightest tolerances.)Oil pump needs precision vibrationless. Not really - the pump on the EA81 is different. It does not ride in the block like the EA82, but in it's own housing. And if anything, the EA82 pumps last longer mechanically so the block bolts have nothing to do with it. Sadly, the EA82 oil-pump to block gasket (the micky-mouse one) fails about as often as the EA81 pumps do. So it's a toss up. It takes 2 hours to change the pump seal on an EA82, and only 15 minutes to change the whole pump on an EA81. I like the overhead cams and belts of the ea82. In a roundabout way I am certain it helped oil flows without pushrods. You're the only one. It didn't help the oil flow any either. The EA81's generally have higher oil pressure, and almost never exhibit the lifter ticking of the EA82. I would take a Hi-Po EA81 over an EA82 anyday of the week, and I've owned a LOT of both of them. The highest mileage figures of all the vehicles I've owned have been EA81's. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffast Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 i will admit that a spfi ea81 would kick rump roast but they lose reliability points for the carb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 i will admit that a spfi ea81 would kick rump roast but they lose reliability points for the carb Thank you captain obvious. With a Weber they are 10x better. With the SPFI they are 100x better. With SPFI and MegaSquirt..... we'll see soon GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffast Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 your welcome gd two best motors made as far as subaru is concerned are the ej22 and the ea81, both are nearly impossable to kill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffast Posted November 1, 2006 Share Posted November 1, 2006 Thank you captain obvious. With SPFI and MegaSquirt..... we'll see soon GD i like the sound of that:headbang: keep me posted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beataru Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 what about mpfi with mega squrit i dont know if i wana do it or not......... i think ill just wait untill i have enough money to do a 2.5 swap.... which will be never... and then use this engine in...... a buggy or brat or another heap that im sure to aquire in my lifetime.... you guys have rubbed of onto me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 2, 2006 Share Posted November 2, 2006 what about mpfi with mega squrit You can, but you really don't gain much - maybe 5 HP at the most. It's also nigh impossible on an EA81 unless you find EA81 turbo heads and manifold and put them on a non-turbo block. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beataru Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 me have ea-82T.... And i think i could get at least 15 horses... and thats on a crap tune... if i had a dyno day and all the gauges i wanted.. then i could pump out more.... and im talking about megasquirt just so i can get rid of fuel cut... but im thinking of fuel cut defender until i get my ej-25 swap idea out of my head and onto paper.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 me have ea-82T.... And i think i could get at least 15 horses... and thats on a crap tune... if i had a dyno day and all the gauges i wanted.. then i could pump out more.... and im talking about megasquirt just so i can get rid of fuel cut... but im thinking of fuel cut defender until i get my ej-25 swap idea out of my head and onto paper.. You know not what you speak. Have you read the manual for MS? You ever tuned one? 15 HP wouldn't be possible without increaseing the boost to dangerous levels. Besides doing anything expensive like MS to an EA82T is just a waste of good money. Push that engine off a cliff in a wheelbarrow. At least that will only cost you $39.99 for the wheelbarrow. GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffast Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 You know not what you speak. Have you read the manual for MS? You ever tuned one? 15 HP wouldn't be possible without increaseing the boost to dangerous levels. Besides doing anything expensive like MS to an EA82T is just a waste of good money. Push that engine off a cliff in a wheelbarrow. At least that will only cost you $39.99 for the wheelbarrow. GD seconded, i like turbo engines as well but very few people have managed to get much power out of them, there just not power houses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beataru Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 im planning on pushing the boost up... rememnber this thing has a 7-1 COMPRESSION RATIO thats like.... well... low! REALLY LOW.... i think that this thing can handle it... remember... boost is not the enemy... the engine could handle 50lbs of boost.... its detonation..... well... i couldnt really handle 50lbs but you get the idea!!! im smart with my engine... i wont blow it ill go gentle at first... and i took of my manual BC because those are addicting.. so im running stock boost levels here.... and with MEGA i can tune it for really good fuel mileage for road trips!!!! I love road trips.... unless im not the one driving! If I get money (alot of money) Ill buy an ej-257 and slap a Hydra on it! Stop naysaying!!! Just believe that someone else can do it! If not me... someone else... anything is possible with unlimited money:-p Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 i think that this thing can handle it... So have many, many others that have come before you and failed. And some of them know where the SHIFT key on the keyboard is anything is possible with unlimited money:-p So it has been claimed. Sadly even that over-used statement isn't true. But one thing IS possible with unlimited money: Stupidity. You need look no further than our own government to see that truth. The EA82T can barely handle the 7 psi it's got stock. The amount of work and time it would take to get the engine to handle 25 lbs of boost (that's the most a *normal* MS ECU can run without changing the MAP sensor for something exotic) isn't cost effective. If we were in a race with the Russians NASA could do it, sure - but they would end up with an engine that looks exactly like an EJ22G..... so why not stand on the shoulders of giants instead of wallowing in the muck with the pleebs? GD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffast Posted November 4, 2006 Share Posted November 4, 2006 So have many, many others that have come before you and failed. And some of them know where the SHIFT key on the keyboard is So it has been claimed. Sadly even that over-used statement isn't true. But one thing IS possible with unlimited money: Stupidity. You need look no further than our own government to see that truth. The EA82T can barely handle the 7 psi it's got stock. The amount of work and time it would take to get the engine to handle 25 lbs of boost (that's the most a *normal* MS ECU can run without changing the MAP sensor for something exotic) isn't cost effective. If we were in a race with the Russians NASA could do it, sure - but they would end up with an engine that looks exactly like an EJ22G..... so why not stand on the shoulders of giants instead of wallowing in the muck with the pleebs? GD thank you, you said what could notboy this thread is way off topic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonicfrog Posted November 4, 2006 Author Share Posted November 4, 2006 OK. I'm not really going recite the naughty pirate shanty. The real question is: "What's that knocking in my engine??". Since I repaired the head gaskets on the overheated 87 T-Wag I've had a persistent knock. When the engine is cold, you almost can't hear it at all. When the enigine is at normal op temp, it is fairely loud, even if the RPM is eqaul to the cold start setting, @ about 1.4 RPMs. The knock is eminating from the engine, but it more pronounced in the cabin. When you stand outside the car you don't hear it as much, unless you pull in to a drive thru and hear it echo off the wall. The engine runs pretty smooth, but normal, non-flooring acceleration seems to develope in mini-surges. The engine isn't throwing any codes. I'm wondering if the khock sensor is damaged enough, due to the overeating, to not prevent knocking, but it is not damaged enough to throw a code. Any thoughts??? PS. As many of you know, I now have the 2 core radiator installed. I've taken two 700+ mile trips, containing steep grades, and the temp has never gone above the 1/8th mark. I highly recommend upgrading to that radiator if you have a turbo. BUMP - to get back on topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beataru Posted November 6, 2006 Share Posted November 6, 2006 just to reply to GD.... Yet another nay sayer among many..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonicfrog Posted November 10, 2006 Author Share Posted November 10, 2006 Problem Solved!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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