porcupine73 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 It's not that 15hp wouldn't do anything, heck that's nearly a 10% gain, but rather that a 15hp gain probably isn't going to happen from just from a different exhaust or even headers. Would there be a gain? Probably, but maybe not that much. Ultimate hp isn't the only measure of engine power, it's the power band, I mean if the thing makes 165hp at 5500rpm but drops off rapidly at lower rpm a car with less ultimate hp but more power over a wider range could outpull. Maybe you drop in a 50 shot of nos or something, that's not super expensive and will give you a power boost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBLUE1212 Posted November 10, 2006 Author Share Posted November 10, 2006 im not talking about just switching a muffler im tlaking about increasing tube diameter and muffler the whole catback exhaust package along with a high flow air filter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIGBLUE1212 Posted November 10, 2006 Author Share Posted November 10, 2006 im not talking about just switching a muffler im tlaking about increasing tube diameter and muffler the whole catback exhaust package along with a high flow air filter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 If the existing exhaust is restrictive, a cat back system will still leave you with the existing thin pipes from the exhaust manifold to the cat. I'd see if I could find someone who used the setup you're planning on a sub to see how much gain they got. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 im not talking about just switching a muffler im tlaking about increasing tube diameter and muffler the whole catback exhaust package along with a high flow air filter How much are you planning to increase the tube diameter to? If it's more than about 2.5 inches, don't even bother. N/A engines need backpressure to function correctly. No matter what you to do that engine short of major internal work, you're not going to get much more power out of it, it's that simple. And by much, I mean...maybe 10hp. And drivetrain loss in Auto AWD systems is A LOT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 As someone who drives a civic si hatch (93) with a 1.6L engine and a 1995 legacy wagon with a 2.2L engine, I can say without doubt that the civic would spank the legacy no problem. Civic's don't wheel too bad either:brow: . Heck, my mom's ford taurus (93) 3.0 with an auto might pull on the subaru with it floored. I never knew how much the taurus could pull before it got totaled again. It's a miracle it's tranny made it this far (212k), because we babied it. Now it doesn't matter, I can hold it floored, and it moves! I don't know what happened with the subaru engines. The EJ22 in the 1st Gen legacy's is bichin, but it kinda loafs in the 2nd gen legacys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virrdog Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 i dont understand how 15 hp will do nothing...and you need a turbo to actually see a difference....thats pretty damn sad....the car isnt a tank....and there isnt THAT much drive train loss Once again peak horsepower does not matter that much. The stock EJ22T numerically is putting down more torque to the wheels than the EJ22 can put down in HP to 6000 rpm with every bolt on mod you can get. We went through this on the Legacy BBS. A turbo allows you to make over 180 lb/ft at ~2200 rpm in mere stock form on the EJ22T. Its a little four banger, if you want a lot more power, you need displacement or forced induction (or a sky high rev limit )... that's physics. You can't really cheat physics. 20-25% drivetrain loss is, ahem, THAT much. At only 200 hp, 50 hp would be spent in spinning the drivetrain stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gordo Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Today if I raced a Civic or Tony Steward in his race car I would win there is about 5 inches of snow on the road, It's called AWD and thats why I drive a Subaru. I can load it with lots of S@$t and if I vacume it I can take out a women in it, that is if any would go out with me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 lol, i still think there overall pretty quick, especially the newer ones. Just get a EJ22T and we are all good to go. Im going to call my local JDM parts shop and find out how much a EJ22T and tranny combo cost, because i dont know are the trannies the exact same between turbo and non turbo? and how do u think the rest of the drivetrain will hold up? ill also change the rear diff. But u think the rest of the car will be OK ish, on a budget? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Virrdog Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 lol, i still think there overall pretty quick, especially the newer ones. Just get a EJ22T and we are all good to go. Im going to call my local JDM parts shop and find out how much a EJ22T and tranny combo cost, because i dont know are the trannies the exact same between turbo and non turbo? and how do u think the rest of the drivetrain will hold up? ill also change the rear diff. But u think the rest of the car will be OK ish, on a budget? Your drivetrain will be fine. Use your stock tranny and OEM clutches. The ECU part will be the biggest hassle. Just beware... its the dark side and you might never want to go back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 Your drivetrain will be fine. Use your stock tranny and OEM clutches. The ECU part will be the biggest hassle. Just beware... its the dark side and you might never want to go back. lol, but i have a auto. Now what do u think? just bolt up the engine? and everything should be good? but i dont think it matters much, its not like there is any more torque, just pushes more on higher rpms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manarius Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 lol, but i have a auto. Now what do u think? just bolt up the engine? and everything should be good? but i dont think it matters much, its not like there is any more torque, just pushes more on higher rpms. That's not true. The EJ22T is a monster for being non-interference. I think the tranny swap to 5MT with Engine swap will run around 3000USD. The engine alone will cost 600+ just because of how rare they are. A 5MT swap alone is around 1.5k. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
froggy Posted November 10, 2006 Share Posted November 10, 2006 The Honda's drivetrain is more efficient, and the engine probably revs out better than an EJ22. It's the price you pay for having a versatile car. That said, I still cannot believe how well Subarus do at sustained high speed driving on the highway through rough and/or slick conditions. Try taking ice-covered corners with frost heaves in them at 80 mph in that civic... Snowman, what kinda tires you got that 'llows you t'go 80mph around frost heave 'n ice covered corners? Send 'em up to me here in the cold and frozen north (fairbanks,ak) I want I want:D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 You have to take into account that the Civic has the VTEC engine. I have a VTEC in my Odyssey and once it starts to peak out around 4k RPM the VTEC kicks in and it pulls. HARD! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 I'm in the Honda program at my local tech school, and I'm tearing apart an Oddesy motor right now. Pretty strong by the looks of it, but it's hauling a van behind it. I was tearing apart an EJ25 at home tonight, and looking at the cams. It's a DOHC, and man the profile on the lobes is steep. That's some good lift that subaru is running on the 2.5's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 I'm in the Honda program at my local tech school, and I'm tearing apart an Oddesy motor right now. Pretty strong by the looks of it, but it's hauling a van behind it. I was tearing apart an EJ25 at home tonight, and looking at the cams. It's a DOHC, and man the profile on the lobes is steep. That's some good lift that subaru is running on the 2.5's. Thats why they are very torquy engines. (btw motors are electric, engines are fueled) nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 (btw motors are electric, engines are fueled) nipper Right. And that's why we call them enginecars instead of motorcars! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 Right. And that's why we call them enginecars instead of motorcars! Naughty! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olnick Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 Naughty! . . . but nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 Right. And that's why we call them enginecars instead of motorcars! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_car http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle Also back in the day the electric motor was far more popular then the engine. The car as a whole is a motor vehical, the engine by itself is till an engine. It's just an engineering quibble, but a motor is electric, an engine is mechanical. so ttthhhppprrrrttttttt nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frag Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_car http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle Also back in the day the electric motor was far more popular then the engine. The car as a whole is a motor vehical, the engine by itself is till an engine. It's just an engineering quibble, but a motor is electric, an engine is mechanical. so ttthhhppprrrrttttttt nipper Being french speaking, i'm interested in this debate (still learning english) and it seems from your own links that both terms can be used. "A motor vehicle is a machine which incorporates a motor (sometimes known as an engine)" "An automobile (or motor car) is a wheeled passenger vehicle that carries its own motor" "Motor may also refer to: an engine Motor car or automobile Motor vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 Being french speaking, i'm interested in this debate (still learning english) and it seems from your own links that both terms can be used."A motor vehicle is a machine which incorporates a motor (sometimes known as an engine)" "An automobile (or motor car) is a wheeled passenger vehicle that carries its own motor" "Motor may also refer to: an engine Motor car or automobile Motor vehicle. SAE and me mechnaical engineering is engine is pisotn and motor is electrical. The say MAY nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted November 11, 2006 Share Posted November 11, 2006 That is true. Part of the confusion comes from their use in British. A couple of interesting links: one two Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 That is true. Part of the confusion comes from their use in British. A couple of interesting links: one two heheh i knew somehow we would be blaming the british nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
porcupine73 Posted November 12, 2006 Share Posted November 12, 2006 lol well it has to be someone's fault! Thinking about it, I have never heard an electrical motor referred to as an engine; however gasoline and other non-electrically powered devices I have heard called both motors and engines, for example how reference two pointed out things like 'small boats may have outboard motors and then are often called motor boats.' ...some rocket scientist has coined the phrase whoosh generator as “the humorous, genderless, politically correct way to refer to the propulsion device in a hobby rocket, thus avoiding the great motor/engine debate”. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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