Noisy HLA

[bgd73]

I just got a wagon and some info about maintenance done, including "heads machined" I do not know if that means planing badly or what. I read about the hla function of .5mm at a time to keep noise down and figured tightening the cam casing would fix the 1 hla that won't quit being noisy. I tightened an external cam casing bolt quite tightly that was by the disty, up top, and it stopped for awhile- just to see if that would do it. It is doing it again this morning, after cold start.Before my next move, tightening the casing bolts below rocker cover, should I take the whole casing off and lightly sand the edges? or should I just overtighten all of them, as this did seem to work for awhile just tightening one when engine was warm.I am certain there is plenty of bolt pressure by oem to keep them good by putting the casing on via oem torques. Mine is not working this way. I have also found some heads that let the hla burrow itself into the head for the .5 loss and never gained again (noisy forever- without any mods to casing, or other way to stop it). I am hoping I am not there with this one, if I am, Do I need a new head? Is there a trick for this?

It is so close to being good I am frustrated- trying to make up for it by "squashing" the cam casing without breaking the bolts..

 

 

Oil pressure is great and seals are good, it is only one hla by the disty - I am guessing the exhaust one on the "asv" type head (I do not have good luck with the "asv" head found on carb versions anyway).I have a couple of spfi heads doing nothing, am willing to swap if it is really bad news.

PRO Advice would be great.

[Hodaka Rider]

OH MY MONKEYS BALLS, MY HLA SUXORS!

Sorry, had to do it!!!

Lots of good info on the board here for the HLA issues. Oil pump seals/gaskets (particularly Mickey Mouse) and those pesky O-rings up top.

Or try MMO or similar to de-varnish.

[bgd73]

It was indeed fixed by tightening the cam casing. When I saw .5 mm as the movement for those to function- the aeration theory left me scratching my head- all these little movers would need is a single drop of oil .

For now the external tightening is keeping it quiet at warm, loud when cold,so the .5mm is still exceeded until the thousands of an inch expansion when warm happens to keep it quiet. It is that tight. So, in reality, a straight pipe, no backpressure and oil gushing with bad seals should still keep that HLA quiet if getting oil and adjusted correctly, and it always will until a catastrophic oil pump event- and I have never heard of one on the ea82 have you?

If torque numbers are exceeded on the cam casing to get it correct, so be it- it was that simple. Overthought could be a wrong direction yet again with these hla's...

[idosubaru]

OH MY MONKEYS BALLS,

hey, that's copyright infringement stealing my lines like that!

 

what he said (monkey balls and all)....do a search for oil pump, ticking, TOD (won't come up in the search though, doesn't like 3 letter stuff). all that head and cam work isn't probably what you need. i think your results so far are anecdotal.

[idosubaru]

as a matter of fact don't go anywhere before scrolling all the way to the bottom left of this webpage. this forum automatically shows a few threads that may be very similar to yours. it shows at least too that are very beneficial. these would come up in a search as well. all that i would tell you is in one of those threads, right here:

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=65355

your noisy HLA is solved within that thread.

[GeneralDisorder]

i think your results so far are anecdotal.

 

+1000.... can we make that his avatar?

 

GD

[bgd73]

Thanks for not exactly helpful replies. It was fixed before you could answer. Quit blaming the oil pump too while your at me.If words like "anecdotal" are in your every day life, may we never speak again. Some of us function in the real world with dirty hands, a schedule and realtime fixing- even if it is visegrips in the pouring rain.. A labarotory and a hot cup of coffee your "pleasant" day or what?

I feel a need sometimes to whip out a resume, work history and witnessed reputation for some of you people..... but that would be staisfying the scientific anal retentive attitide I don't care much for in the real world anyway.

Think quick- lets see who makes a scientific mistake first.

the quiet 20 year old ea82 I am referring to isn't even going to get oil pump gaskets now, like my 13 year old one still running flawlessly at 161k, or the 166k one before that. B*ll************ talks. Wanna know what the action is? Take your prejudice from mine. Especially you GD.

[jeffast]

Thanks for not exactly helpful replies. It was fixed before you could answer. Quit blaming the oil pump too while your at me.If words like "anecdotal" are in your every day life, may we never speak again. Some of us function in the real world with dirty hands, a schedule and realtime fixing- even if it is visegrips in the pouring rain.. A labarotory and a hot cup of coffee your "pleasant" day or what?

I feel a need sometimes to whip out a resume, work history and witnessed reputation for some of you people..... but that would be staisfying the scientific anal retentive attitide I don't care much for in the real world anyway.

Think quick- lets see who makes a scientific mistake first.

the quiet 20 year old ea82 I am referring to isn't even going to get oil pump gaskets now, like my 13 year old one still running flawlessly at 161k, or the 166k one before that. B*ll************ talks. Wanna know what the action is? Take your prejudice from mine. Especially you GD.

bgd73 i'm sensing some pent up frustration in your past is there any thing you would like to share with us

hey ask a stupid question get a stupid answer i hate to say this because it is wrong to just scream use the search function but any one who has been here more than a month should know to do a search on the TOD.

i mean it seems like clockwork evrey 1 1/2 months someone posts a TOD thread etc.

also quit ***************ing you asked for help. people responded to help and you chew them out think before you post.

[daeron]

listen, bgd, first off: not everyone you meet on the internet will be a nice guy.

 

Second off, I really like you, and enjoy your contributions to the forum.. You make excellent observation, but there are times when you do not follow ideal logical paths, and draw faulty conclusions based on that. It happens, judging from your statements of cause, event, analysis, and remedy.

 

After a certain amount of time reading posts that are at times not the clearest, and at times following murky logical paths, eventually certain people and liable to snicker... at first, likely, in the privacy of their own homes.. but eventually, those people will start correcting you. Some of them are going to be @ssholes about it. One or two of those (if you're lucky) are nice enough to WARN you that they are @ssholes. Take it with the @sshole grain of salt, and re analyze your situation and solution, instead of taking offense. Lots of people have turned wrneches on dozens of these engines and vehicles... DOZENS!!!! millions and millions of miles logged by some folks here, countless problems encountered many times by a single individual.. thats not a knowledge base to get stubborn against with your own opinion. "Prejudice" doesn't mean its wrong. I am fairly prejudiced in the belief that when I drop a wrench towards my foot, its eventually going to hit my foot pretty hard if i dont move. I am prejudiced in favor of breathing, call me crazy.

 

And "anecdotal" is far from insulting.. especially when offered with a direct link to demonstrate that many others have had your tale thus far as chapters 1-3 of a 9 chapter story, the end of which was.. replacement of lifters and reseal of oil pump. It is alot easier to cry "search" than it is to sit and patiently explain to someone the exact nature of their problem.. especially when the individual having the problem has been reading threads about this problem daily (we all do, right? ) for eight or nine months!

 

My point is, beyond a quick jab from GD (insulting maybe, but maybe a drop of truth to it as well?) most of this thread has been fairly level.. when you are dealing with people on the internet here, you gotta give their way as much as they give yours.. you are asking for information, and instead of receiving posts that say "yah?? good job, I'll remember that.." or "yah thats what I did, worked fine, 100K later.." you get posts that say "youre wrong, try searching, or opening your eyes."

 

Blunt? yah. true? probably. possibly, to say the least.

 

 

*steps off soapbox*

 

sorry, but _I_ was utterly unaware of the "similar threads" feature... must bear in mind for future reference. thanks

[GeneralDisorder]

but that would be staisfying the scientific anal retentive attitide I don't care much for in the real world anyway.

 

Without that attitude, YOU would be banging two rocks together for fire. You certainly wouldn't have a subaru, or at the very least not one that would have lasted long enough to drive itself off the boat, let alone still be around and taking your neanderthal punishments with vice grips.

 

If you don't like our answers then find your own. Sorry, but I've been here long enough to have seen each and every problem you have posted 10 times before, and in the case of ticking HLA's at LEAST 100 times before (no exageration). It's been discussed, torn apart, mangled and hashed. There is nothing new under the sun to discuss about it. I've owned on the order of 10+ EA82's, I've dealt with and conquered HLA problems on half of them at least.

 

(note: I know this post will do no good at all, but what can I say? I see a helicopter accident and I can't look away )

 

GD

[keltik]

Im standing by with an ice pack, $10 on GD winning. I gotta admit i also get confused with bgd's posts sometimes and its hard to help someone when you dont know what theyre asking for.

 

As for the HLA's only needing a drip of oil, if my understanding is correct they use the oil pressure to inflate and work. And regarding the claims of the lifters getting hammered into the head - i dont think theres enough strain on them for that unless somethings really wrong.

[Subaru_dude]

I think bgd has a very unique way of commnicating, and it seems dareon understands him better than most of us here. Or it seems that way to me. Yes, noisy hla, or TOD... has been discussed several times before. and as GD said, it's been torn apart, hashed, etc etc..... they tick, you replace, they don't tick. that's about it. But bgd is still learning, he's only had 3 soobs... he's not that experienced. it could be something completely new to him... maybe his other 2 didn't make that noise. maybe seeing the 40 pages that "noisy hla" brought up reminded him that he didn't have that much time to scroll through each post looking for his answer. but anywayzz... we're all heroes here. he, as an individual, has contributed alot in the way of making ea82s more mechanically sound. the clamps on the front springs as mentioned in some of his earlier posts, actually do make a difference in the way the car handles/drives. that's something nobody else would have thought of... NOBODY. He, as an individual, has actually contributed more to the ea82 than alot of people here. so if we all can be nice so we don't chase eachother away that'd be cool. each and every person here has done alot for this site, let's not forget that anytime soon.

[idosubaru]

Thanks for not exactly helpful replies. It was fixed before you could answer. Quit blaming the oil pump too while your at me.If words like "anecdotal" are in your every day life, may we never speak again. Some of us function in the real world with dirty hands

unhelpful? i'm sorry you took offense to my reply? i'm confused, i was addressing the most probable causes of TOD. if i didn't mention the issues that cause 90% of HLA noise (or more), then i wouldn't be helpful in my oppinion. maybe cars in my area have different issues than yours, i don't know, but that's the case on the dozens i've worked on down here. if i don't mention what i've seen on the dozens of soobs i've worked on and owned then i'd really be giving you BS.

 

i would feel bad if i started suggesting things i've never actually seen before...like poor clearances in your main bearings, warn cams or clogged oil galleries which are highly unlikely....all possible, but i've yet to see it.

 

the only case in my decade long, 15+ XT6 ownership experience i've ever seen of a stubborn tick that wasn't related to oil pump or gummed up and sticky HLA's was due to a chunk of RTV getting wedged in an oil gallery to the cam after someone put the engine back together. that none of these were your issue is very rare and something that probably noone on this board could have guessed over the internet without actually touching, seeing, driving, feeling and testing this vehicle in person.

 

anecdotal describes my experience in thinking two things are related when really they aren't. been there done that plenty of times and was trying to help you not go down that same road. that it did not help you, doesn't mean i was trying to lead you astray, am a bad person and am unhelpful.

 

and for those mentioning confusing posts or what not, just ask what you're confused about. keyboards aren't everyones favorite form of communication...i still have no idea what FTW, RMOLG or whatever it is, mean. a follow up question can clarify easily enough.

[bgd73]

This thread seems to be more for conversation than anything on my behalf. Sorry for lack of anal retentive and just having my own successful actions that actually fix things not according to GD's lifestyle.10 years 3 soobs and worked on some friends, I guess I can be confusing. my simple problems anecdotally are annoying and confusing to some apparently. I meant what I said about hla's hardly needing anything to function.

Today, finally access to a dry place to work:

• took rocker cover off, spring relief bolt fell onto the ground!
  
• took timing covers off, oil pump is soaked and even dripped in front of my eyes, the outer seal was spinning with the pump and it was a newer version gasket with the metal ring (oh no GD's favorite)
  
• Inner cam casing bolts took 2 turns near the distributor, I am certain I warped it back to where it belonged, as the rocker cover had to be warped to the casing all while staying relatively dry before this tightening, At this point, I though the engine may be done forever.
  
• changed one cam seal, and they both had newer metal ringed gaskets already
  
• tried some stuff I hadn't seen before on the gaskets by permatex- impermeable to all shop oils, and meant to be applied to gaskets going in for a long term install (seemed very appropriate)

Got it going six hours later due to a broken oil pump bolt (the other reason for bad leak). Oil pressure is fantastic, expecting to hear some sloppy bearings finally cooled to good oil pressure, and it never did. Engine is tight and cool, no leaks. For a 20 year old car, everything came apart great, fatigued stuff was very common sense, I was expecting worse, like swapping the whole oil pump, or cam casing, etc. Needs nothing. Ready for a cross continental expedition

During this bad time, I got the hlas to be quiet, anecdotally totally on 2-10 lbs or so of pressure well into the 2k rpm range.<- Is this scientific enough for you? The ea82 is a freakin rock. I would run oem metal ringlessed gaskets again anyday. My 13 year old ea82 with 161k proved it is a hoax on which is better with its oem oil pump seal that was never changed, never leaked. The metal ringed ones cling to the shaft too much, (except for the cams, they are good there). I am hoping the super tacky gasket goop keeps it from spinning with the oil pump shaft. Thanks for listening, My problem wasn't scientifically in the fsm, and I even used visegrips like a wild man.

 

and the clutch fan on this carbed gl went very powerful after fixing- that type of fan senses smooth to operate, and it really is now, had to tighten the belts. unscientifically.