oem protenza's.....almost wrecked.

[blatant]

it was rainy tonight and about 45 degrees. I almost spun out a clover leaf on ramp and they felt slippy a few times. when i say spun out i mean counter steer and the whole bit. Pucker factor. I also "laid rubber" twice, which i've never ever done. 06 5mt. I wasn't driving fast or excessive any time. I'll tell you this is the least safe i've ever felt in the subie. I haven't had it in the snow yet but i shudder to think what it'll be like. Did i just have weird luck with these tires? Is it best to get something else? bridgestone protenza's 225/55/17r, v rated. Normal oem spec. anyone with feed back? I did search, no luck. thx

[seanski06]

on nasioc..they are shamed upon....

[Ranger83]

On other Subaru forums like legacygt you will find many threads complaining about the performance of these tires in rain, snow, and ice. They are quiet and have a smooth ride and low rolling resistance.

 

I was reluctant to fault the tires but after switching to dedicated summer and winter tires I have to say - life is too short. Sell them on eBay, give them away - or put them on a company minivan like I did - but get better tires! Is it worth driving aruond for a couple of years on the tire rated 22nd out of 23 A/S tires when you can replace them for $6-800 and be happy and safe? What I don't understand is why someone goes out and spends $22,000 to $33,000 on a new Subaru and then drives around on the Potenzas until they wear out!

 

[99obw]

I can't commend based on actual experience, as our old '99 came from the factory with michelins (which sucked), but I have heard nothing but bad things about the potenzas. Most OEM tires are borderline dangerous on any make, as they tend to be the cheapest thing the OEM can buy that has a "good" name. If you want decent performance buy better tires. If you want to get the most from the suby in the winter buy winter tires.

 

I think that your experience illustrates an opinion I've held since we first got our subaru. AWD does not make a car safer, it doesn't make it handle better, nope sorry. I actually think that the AWD gives a false sense of security, and certainly when we bought our subaru my expectations were far too high. I think our subaru has an understeer quality that is dangerous, it pushes through the turns too much in the slop. With that said I have avoided several accidents in the car that I couldn't have in other cars due to excellent braking and handling, but I'm not sure that AWD had anything to do with it, as I wasn't accelerating in these situations. AWD might have some advantages in extremely aggressive driving, but for the most part it just makes the car capable of better straight-line acceleration in the slippery stuff. I think that regardless of drivetrain the tires are the most important thing on a car, everything else is pointless if the tires suck. Paying a premium for an AWD car and running anything but excellent tires is silly IMHO. I say this knowing that the AWD and subaru fundamentalists may disagree with me.

 

FWIW we're currently running Yokohama Avid TRZ in the summer and Nokian Hakkepeliita in the winter.

[blatant]

ranger, why didn't you keep the same screen name across forums.

 

I agree that the price is small incomparison to that spent on a car but for safety in general.

 

 

where do you all take your tires to be mounted if you get them from the tire rack. Where do you find the best mounting deal.

[hankosolder2]

>I think that your experience illustrates an opinion I've held since we first >got our subaru. AWD does not make a car safer, it doesn't make it handle better, nope sorry. I actually think that the AWD gives a false sense of security, and certainly when we bought our subaru my expectations were far too high. I think our subaru has an understeer quality that is dangerous, it pushes through the turns too much in the slop.

----

 

I pretty much agree with you, but the ability to accelerate in slippery conditions is a HUGE safety bonus. For example: you commit to pulling out onto a road, then discover that the conditions are more slippery than expected-- after you're partially out into the intersection and cars are closing in on you! AWD cars are much more foolproof in that situation. Front wheel drive cars are just lousy at putting the power down when you're trying to accellerate with the front wheels at a sharp angle (like pulling out into an intersection.)

 

Side note: Car and Driver did a comparison test comparing AWD versus FWD & RWD cars of the same make and model (I.e. you can get some Audis as FWD or AWD and some Mercedes as RWD or AWD.) The RWD Benz on snow tires pulled the most G's in slippery corners compared to all the other drive wheel/tire combos. The reason- best front/rear weight distribution... Subarus are nose heavy and are going to want to understeer. (I assume that's what you mean when you say that they "push" too much through corners.)

 

Cheers,

Nathan

[Gene J]

The RE92s on my 98 GT wagon with 5MT have been great. We have never broken the tires loose in rain or snow. They last 40,000 miles on the car and I drive aggressively.

 

Are there better tires out there? Sure. But they seem well matched to the car.

[Setright]

Hmm, unless it is down to MT vs. auto, maybe you guys are just too sudden with the throttle?

 

Approach bend on snow covered road.

 

Step off throttle.

 

Turn wheel into bend.

 

Gently press throttle all the way down, in one smooth action.

 

Wait as torque builds and is shifted rearward.

 

Rear begins to step out.

 

Keep throttle and steering in postion until you've got the desired angle.

 

Swing steering wheel into opposite lock, stop when it feels "heavy" again.

 

Enjoy slide....

 

Twitch wheel more in opposite direction or smoothly take the throttle back to return to straight-line cruise.

 

 

Look in mirror and notice that idiot who was tailgating is now keeping a respectable distance

 

 

 

(Please be aware that once the rear is going, stepping off the gas again will cause the car to slide EVEN MORE, due to shift in balance. It takes practice to avoid the panic reaction that leads to releasing the gas. Try to focus on keeping your throttle foot still and using the steering wheel to control the car.)

[telemachus]

I actually loved my Potenza RE92s and replaced them with G009s. I've had no issues.

[Ranger83]

ranger, why didn't you keep the same screen name across forums.

Because they were taken or don't allow short names or because forgot which was which.

 

Hmm, unless it is down to MT vs. auto, maybe you guys are just too sudden with the throttle?

 

//////

If you go to legacygt.com, you will find over 200 threads about these tires - including one where the guy was picking up his car while it was snowing and nearly crashed leaving the parking lot!

 

In the tirerack user surveys, they rank 20th out of 21 "High Performance All Season" tires. See http://www.tirerack.com/tires/surveyresults/surveydisplay.jsp?type=HPAS

 

In my case, I was reluctant to blame the tires, as only a poor workman blames his tools. But my eyes were opened when my 97 Outback with Michelin HydroEdge and 45,000 miles on them did not hydroplane in one stretch of highway - and my brand new 2006 Outback 3.0R (with 225/55r17 Bridgestone Potenza RE92A's) did, on the same highway, at the same place, in the same conditions. In the rain they feel greasy and do not provide linear feedback - better rain tires have much more gradual and communicative break-away.

 

The question of what to replace them with is not so simple. I have Goodyear F1 GS D3's now for summer, but that would be overkill on an H4 and they are helpless in snow and ice. I use Nokian RSI's in the winter but may get a third set of wheels with Nokian WR's to try over winter to see how they compare. The Yokohama Advan series seems to be a A/S popular replacement, but I've never tried them.

[fnlyfnd]

on subaruoutback.org they are also shamed upon. I don't like them- my g/f with her 05 leg doesnt like them.

[rlsimpso]

The stock Bridgestones on my mom's 05 Impreza are bad in the rain. I can get the back end out quit easily, and its an auto:headbang:

 

I can also give thumbs up the Potenza G009s. It got a set last winter for my Legacy and they have been great for over all driving. They are not quite grippy enough for brisk summer driving, but the wet and (more so) snow traction are very good.

[jamal]

I think RE92s get a little more flak than they deserve. They're not a snow/ice tire, they're not a rain tire, and they're not a performance summer tire. All-seasons are a comprimise between all these things.

 

I don't have any problems with my RE92s and they've seen rain, snow, gravel, dirt, and high speeds/cornering forces. I think they provide decent levels of grip and are very predictable near the limit. If they feel greasy or unstable you might want to check the tire pressure and alignment.

 

That said, I'm ditching them next spring for a set of sticky summer tires.

 

Oh and lets not forget this classic:

 

[blatant]

i'm thinking of this tire. i believed someone mentioned about it and started to do some reading. stopped into local gy shop and i must say it's nice and has fantastic reviews.

 

pic from tirerack. tire rack is also 200full dollars cheaper than local shops. I was quoted 800out the door. I'm one for supporting local shops but for two bills this is a better bet. It'll be 15bucks a tire at the dealer for a mount and balance.

[rlsimpso]

I know a few people to who those. They are a good all around tire. Very quite and good in the rain. It hasn't snowed yet, so I can't say anything about that.

 

They are not a performance tire.

 

I hope they wear well for what they cost.

 

That poster is great. Any idea where I can get a bigger version? I want to run it off on the DesignJet.

[Ranger83]

I think RE92s get a little more flak than they deserve. They're not a snow/ice tire, they're not a rain tire, and they're not a performance summer tire. All-seasons are a comprimise between all these things.

 

I don't have any problems with my RE92s and they've seen rain, snow, gravel, dirt, and high speeds/cornering forces. I think they provide decent levels of grip and are very predictable near the limit. If they feel greasy or unstable you might want to check the tire pressure and alignment.

I had the benefit of comparing them to the HydroEdge on my old OBW on the same day in the same conditions. "They're not only merely bad, they're really most sincerely bad."

 

We don't have any problems with the RE92A's now that they're on the minivan, either. But the OB is now much more stable on high speed turns on bumpy roads, and in wet cornering and braking with the Goodyear F1 GS D3's. I wouldn't get those tires if you have an H4: but if you have an H6 or XT, I recommend them as a summer tire.

[Virrdog]

I think that your experience illustrates an opinion I've held since we first got our subaru. AWD does not make a car safer, it doesn't make it handle better, nope sorry. I actually think that the AWD gives a false sense of security, and certainly when we bought our subaru my expectations were far too high.

So ignorant people think that AWD makes them God in a car and that's Subaru's fault? And if you think it doesn't make it handle better then look up a little concept called slip angles.

 

I think our subaru has an understeer quality that is dangerous, it pushes through the turns too much in the slop. With that said I have avoided several accidents in the car that I couldn't have in other cars due to excellent braking and handling, but I'm not sure that AWD had anything to do with it, as I wasn't accelerating in these situations. AWD might have some advantages in extremely aggressive driving, but for the most part it just makes the car capable of better straight-line acceleration in the slippery stuff.

So what other mass production family car doesn't have an understeer quality. It IS what's considered safer. Try driving a GTi all winter where you have a FWD car that likes to lose its backend. You'll want your understeering AWD car back in a hurry. And if you are still driving like AWD makes you God-on-wheels then you are going to understeer BAD. So most of that is definitely the driver. If you learn to get your braking done correctly and go slow-in fast-out of the corners through a proper line... understeer is not a problem.

 

And AWD is so much more than straight-line acceleration. Yes, that is where the greatest impact is felt in bad weather. But once again look up slip angles.

 

I think that regardless of drivetrain the tires are the most important thing on a car, everything else is pointless if the tires suck. Paying a premium for an AWD car and running anything but excellent tires is silly IMHO. I say this knowing that the AWD and subaru fundamentalists may disagree with me.

Personally I think there is nothing wrong with the tires. They are by no means bad tires. I have driven everything from shaved R-compound tires to unrated snow/mud tires and completely bald summer tires through snow. I also frequent a road course every year with professional instruction. I have put many a tire through its paces and if you wreck with RE-92's the problem is the driver, not the tire. They grip fine where they are supposed to be. If you are driving through snow-drifts with them, the driver needs to slow his butt down, bottom line. Scape goat is right.

 

Summary:

-If you have massive understeer with your tires and the aligment is right, the problem is the driver.

 

-If you take ok all-season tires and drive them through really crappy weather, you need to really slow down.

 

Sorry if the post comes across as strong, I feel strongly on the matter.

[Ranger83]

Have you driven a current generation OBW with Potenza RE92A's in heavy rain or snow?

 

They're fine in the dry. In the wet they don't just merely s#ck - they really, most sincerely s#ck.

 

Go to Legacygt.com. There are several thousand posts by actual owners of these tires........

[Virrdog]

Have you driven a current generation OBW with Potenza RE92A's in heavy rain or snow?

 

They're fine in the dry. In the wet they don't just merely s#ck - they really, most sincerely s#ck.

 

Go to Legacygt.com. There are several thousand posts by actual owners of these tires........

If you live where there is lots of heavy rain or snow, then you need to change them. If you keep them, drive slow. They obviously weren't designed for that, so what's the problem? Every car across the country gets the same tire, don't you think its not going to work in some of those places? It would be sheer stupidity for Subaru to put snow tires (or summer-only tires) on all of their go anywhere family vehicles.

 

And sheer number of internet monkeys agreeing does not make a statement true. Look at the thousands of reviews on tirerack.com about how dedicated summer tires are oh-so-sucky in the snow. They finally had to disable the "snow traction" ratings on the summer tires...

[99obw]

So ignorant people think that AWD makes them God in a car and that's Subaru's fault? And if you think it doesn't make it handle better then look up a little concept called slip angles.

 

 

So what other mass production family car doesn't have an understeer quality. It IS what's considered safer. Try driving a GTi all winter where you have a FWD car that likes to lose its backend. You'll want your understeering AWD car back in a hurry. And if you are still driving like AWD makes you God-on-wheels then you are going to understeer BAD. So most of that is definitely the driver. If you learn to get your braking done correctly and go slow-in fast-out of the corners through a proper line... understeer is not a problem.

 

And AWD is so much more than straight-line acceleration. Yes, that is where the greatest impact is felt in bad weather. But once again look up slip angles.

 

 

Personally I think there is nothing wrong with the tires. They are by no means bad tires. I have driven everything from shaved R-compound tires to unrated snow/mud tires and completely bald summer tires through snow. I also frequent a road course every year with professional instruction. I have put many a tire through its paces and if you wreck with RE-92's the problem is the driver, not the tire. They grip fine where they are supposed to be. If you are driving through snow-drifts with them, the driver needs to slow his butt down, bottom line. Scape goat is right.

 

Summary:

-If you have massive understeer with your tires and the aligment is right, the problem is the driver.

 

-If you take ok all-season tires and drive them through really crappy weather, you need to really slow down.

 

Sorry if the post comes across as strong, I feel strongly on the matter.

 

 

Honestly, with 450k miles of driving experience without leaving the road I don't need you to assess my level of ignorance. The suby understeers, potenzas suck, end of story. Bragging about running bald tires in the snow doesn't add credibility BTW. I don't have the patience with you for a more detailed reply right now, perhaps tomorrow.

[jamal]

I had the benefit of comparing them to the HydroEdge on my old OBW on the same day in the same conditions. "They're not only merely bad, they're really most sincerely bad."

 

So you're saying a rain tire is a lot better in the rain?

 

I have driven my re92s in heavy rain plenty of times. In LA when it rains everything gets really slippery due to all the dried oil and other fluids all over the ground. On top of that everyone is an idiot. When pushed they provide more than acceptable grip levels.

 

Honestly, with 450k miles of driving experience without leaving the road I don't need you to assess my level of ignorance. The suby understeers, potenzas suck, end of story. Bragging about running bald tires in the snow doesn't add credibility BTW. I don't have the patience with you for a more detailed reply right now, perhaps tomorrow.

 

I've never had a problem getting my Subaru to not understeer, even when I had no rear swaybar. Like virrdog said, understeer has a lot do to with the driver. Read up on slip angles and weight transfer. Now that I do have a stock rear swaybar I've found the car to be very neutral unless I am accelerating too early out of a corner, which is the case for any non-rwd car. EVERY car will understeer if you go into a corner too fast and turn the wheel.

 

Using an "I'm right, you're wrong, I've driven 450k miles" arguement doesn't add credibility either.

 

All we're saying is that the RE92 is not a terrible tire. Yes, snow/rain/summer tires grip better on snow/rain/pavement. While there are plently of all-seasons I'd rather have, the potenza is still better than A LOT of tires.

[aboone1970]

I kinda liked the Potenza tire in dry or wet conditions...not the greatest but certainly not the worst. On the snow and dirt, they suck! The yokohama's that came on our new wagons this year are much better all around and way better on the snow. I have been riding around on the yokohama tires for the last couple of weeks in the snow and ice and they are not so bad.

 

I am pretty picky about snow tires...FYI, these are also really crappy on the snow. This is Les Schwab's new studded tire and what a piece O crap it is. Sorry if I derailed the thread a little but we are on one of my favorite subjects(snow tires) and I feel pretty stongly about the crappiness of this tire.

 

 

 

This, IMO is the best snow tire under $100(firestone winterforce). It's "almost" as good as the nokians but doesn't wear out as fast...and it's half the price.

 

[rlsimpso]

Have any of you ever taking you Subaru's out on a track? It is suprising how far you can push it before it actually understeers. There is a lot of tire noise when you get close, but nothing dangerous. Give a bit more throttle and you can bring it back in to line. A little more steering angle a more throttle and you will have a nice drift. Holding it is the challenge. Non-turbo Subaru don't have enough power to over come the grip of the tires.

 

With that said I have noticed that automatic subarus are less likely to understeer then the manuals. I say this because (at least the ones I have driven) the transmission will not hold a gear, so you are always one to high. Then as throttle is applied as you apex the corner it thinks for a while and then by the time is down shifts you are out of the corner. Ugh. In a manual, brake, down a gear, turn in, apply throttle until the front end starts to run wide, increase steering angle and your out the other side. With the engine in the power band and the tires close to the limit of traction, it is very easy to provoke understeer.

 

I have tried the selectable automatic in the new Legacy GT and that is better, but you can't select 1st, it won't change down when I want it to, and it is too slow on the changes.

 

As jamal stated, to get understeer automatically every time, just go in to the corner too fast. The best tires in the world can't make up for that.

 

In normal driving on normal roads I don't have much trouble with understeer. Consider the conditions before driving. If you slide, you may want to slow down a bit.

 

If you want some bad tires, get a set of Dominators. I think Sears sells them. They suck!

 

aboone1970, you should chime in on the Nokian snow tire thread.

[Virrdog]

Honestly, with 450k miles of driving experience without leaving the road I don't need you to assess my level of ignorance. The suby understeers, potenzas suck, end of story. Bragging about running bald tires in the snow doesn't add credibility BTW. I don't have the patience with you for a more detailed reply right now, perhaps tomorrow.

I wasn't bragging. Notice I left out the circumstances and didn't say I ran them like that for any period of time. The point was I have experienced the worse of the worse to the super sticky. And I have experience on a track with several Subaru's. If a car is going to understeer it should definitely do it when entering a turn at 80 mph+, no?

 

So with track experience being on the edge limits of tires (something rarely even possible on a public road) and having driven some crappy tires in crappy situations... I say the Potenza's are fine if you don't get lots of snow or extremes of weather (which happens to be what they are designed for). That's my educated opinion. You can disagree on my opinion and what my "education" may be. But there is really no need to argue. I put forth what I consider a valid opinion for people without the experience to be able to make a decision. If you can drive good on RE-92's, you can drive good on any tire, the same is not true vice-versa.

[Novakaine]

My legacy came with a set barums or some junk. Absolute crap, so bad infact, they are not even rated. I took the car up to tahoe, and I was all over the road.

 

I then upgaded to a set of wrx rims with r392s, and they were much better. I probably felt it slip only a few times. But that might has something to do with the fact the tires had a lot of wear on them and were near the end of life.

 

I just upgrades to the Yokohama AVID V4S, I like them so far. It is supposed to rain in a couple days, I will push them in the rain and see how they hold up...and then report back. The true test will be in the snow, and for that, I must wait a month.