Seeing ngk's fire.. while in cyl head?

[bgd73]

My "new" old 1987 soob is horrible on fuel. 1781cc has many excuses more to have 30mpg+ than not. I opened the hood, thought I saw glowing near the plugs (all four of them are doing this), going with the thump of an idle. I am assuming these plugs do not glow in the dark, nor be able to watch them fire and light up like a fire fly. I knew not to stick my hands in there,

after seeing number 4 wire zapping off of the vacuum advance chamber...

Is it possible that I have 20 year old spark plugs? The brand is oem, they are quite rusted, as well as the wires obviously bad. Never saw anything like it. These would be the longest lasting original oem plugs I have ever seen.... TWENTY YEARS. (12/86- 12/06)

 

They are getting bosch platinums and 8mm wires, it cured my other 2 engines for good, as well as aided in fuel mileage.The biggest fuel saver was synthetic grease on all bearings and fresh axles and syn oil in rear diff. I easily went into the 40's after these chores as well as the EGR plugged (of course!)

[Hodaka Rider]

Just based on personal experience, by NGK's again. Save the extra money you don't spend on Platinums, and put it towards a good set of plug wires: Magnecor.

None of this will make any more power than good stock stuff, but If your current setup really is that old, you will notice a differnece.

 

Again, buy the NGK's the owners manual lists, and a set of Magnecor wires. New cap and rotor too, of course.

[Syonyk]

The biggest fuel saver was synthetic grease on all bearings and fresh axles and syn oil in rear diff. I easily went into the 40's after these chores as well as the EGR plugged (of course!)

 

Interesting... I may have to try those out.

 

-=Russ=-

[bgd73]

Interesting... I may have to try those out.

 

-=Russ=-

The best lube is a 90hp engine with 4wd miracle- seriously. Not to throw brands out like I mean it, but I used valvoline grease and oil, both synthetic. I was barely on the throttle on the highway into the flow of traffic (70s-80s) and had a sense of a long lasting "glideslope".One tub did 2 axles, when I checked them some months later- they mysteriously took most of it into the invisible "perma-viscosity" (<- did I just make that up?)

and I repacked yet again....

NGK's aren't a bad idea. I personally really like the regular Bosch platinums. After taking a cylinder head off my 93 with those in it, The washer has to come off to fit all of the threads precisely, to fit like the oem ngk. I had asked here at usmb about that, the day I got the platinums, and got more opinions that I can't even remember. As it turned out, the washers need to come off like my question was asking an answer to.I gained power with the bosch, even with the washers still on them. The ngk is clearly an exact fit, and I know now the bosch's will too.

I am so glad to be finding usual problems. I am getting enthused again, after my premature loss of a completely finished (restored/repaired) old soob.

[GeneralDisorder]

As it turned out, the washers need to come off like my question was asking an answer to.I gained power with the bosch, even with the washers still on them. The ngk is clearly an exact fit, and I know now the bosch's will too.

 

That's interesting about the washer - you're saying that without it, the plug threads down farther into the cylinder? I don't use the platinums myself, but I've been trying to track down a slight miss in an engine that's got them (platinum +4's). I will take a look at the depth difference as that may be part of the problem.....

 

GD

[jeffast]

bosch and subaru should never be used in the same sentence

i had a set in the six's old engine before it blew they were horrable carbon build up constantly never stayed clean. i had horrable missfiring problems the whole tim i used them as far as spark plugs use the oe ngk's, or i am currently running a brand called e3 they rule almost 10,000 miles and they still look like the day i put them in:headbang:

[NoahDL88]

The best lube is a 90hp engine with 4wd miracle- seriously.

 

? Sure ok

 

 

Anyway, i've also fallen prey to the bosch trap, there no good in Japanese engines. Stick with the 1.49 NGK's and i promise you won't be dissapointed also, while you're in there don't forget the wires, as has been mentioned, but also the distributor cap and rotor.

[Frank B]

I've had great results with the NGK R plugs and NGK wires. The wires are an exact fit, not too long and not too short like sooo many other brands. Plus they are labeled 1,2,3, and 4. It really isn't needed, but it's a nice touch.

 

running a brand called e3 they rule almost 10,000 miles and they still look like the day i put them in:headbang:

 

Where did you find the E3 plugs? What's the number? I have one in my 15 year old chainsaw and it gave instant results.

[subyrally]

for the love of fuji, never use bosch plugs in a japanese car, their wipeblades are great, but their plugs are trash. i should know, i sell them to rednecks all day at work. the are only good for german trash, err, cars.

 

if you must upgrade, stick with ngk or denso. i highly reccomend the ng iridium plugs. they actually make a noticable difference. ive sold them to people with bone stock hondas and had them come back after a week or two just to thank me for the reccomendation. i personally swear by ngk.

[Syonyk]

I change the spark plugs in my motorcycle every 2500 miles or the gap increases enough that I get misfires under WOT.

 

I change the plugs in my RX-7 (when I'm driving it) every 5000 miles because it eats plugs for breakfast (they all do).

 

I change the plugs in my Subarus every 20k miles or so. It's wonderful how long it goes between changes. I just put the cheap NGKs in & figure I'll replace them in a year or so.

 

-=Russ=-

[Numbchux]

NGKs...period

 

bosch, autolite, etc.....never in a subaru.

[idosubaru]

i should know, i sell them to rednecks all day at work.

HA! hey, my house is 40 minutes from you, watch out!

i'd stick with the NGK's as well. used platinums once and nothing drastic happened either way. i like torque master the best...no maintenance plugs. but they're expensive as monkey balls and don't offer anything except they never need to be changed or gapped (there is no gap).

 

i think you said it best:

Is it possible that I have 20 year old spark plugs? The brand is oem, they are quite rusted, as well as the wires obviously bad. Never saw anything like it. These would be the longest lasting original oem plugs I have ever seen.... TWENTY YEARS. (12/86- 12/06)

the stock NGK's held up well. you did mention before that the car has low miles and likely sat for quite some time, so they probably are original.

[bgd73]

for the love of fuji, never use bosch plugs in a japanese car, their wipeblades are great, but their plugs are trash. i should know, i sell them to rednecks all day at work. the are only good for german trash, err, cars.

 

if you must upgrade, stick with ngk or denso. i highly reccomend the ng iridium plugs. they actually make a noticable difference. ive sold them to people with bone stock hondas and had them come back after a week or two just to thank me for the reccomendation. i personally swear by ngk.

 

The other option for me was the iridiums, I found the platinums to have same very precise purpose, longevity- and quite new for a spark plug design, however 10 years or so may be for some of you with longevity.I am back to a very cool running 87 carbed- the fast hot fire for better warm ups while never overheating is genius. Whoever makes it, whatever the brand, it is genius. The old ngk oems are very old design (I mean similar to the dawn of spark plugs - complete with rust!), even thier demises. I would use them again, but I have proven to myself the platinums even installed incorrectly, on a 13 year old soob with over 150k getting 38mpg every where I went, including a winter with frigid temps. The only anomoly I found, and it wasn't in a manual to get an answer, was how far back the platinums sit from filling the holes. Not even the oem ngks fit exact maximizing the physical compression, by making chamber smaller without a chance of hurting anything.There is alot of room left over, I will be working in the garage where the head is with plugs in it will grab a photo. Any difference in chamber size is a direct impact on compression- spark plugs could be a great way cheaply to gain.

[Syonyk]

Hm. 38mpg would be damn nice, I apparently have a lot of work to do :-)

 

How much do the iridium plugs run?

 

-=Russ=-

[GeneralDisorder]

35 MPG and higher is easy with SPFI and 2WD. Carb and 4WD you'll get around 28 maybe a bit more depending.

 

It's the gearing, tire size, weight, and the SPFI ECU that does it. Heck - I got around 33 MPG with my 2WD EA81 and a Weber.

 

GD

[EA82DM8]

35 MPG and higher is easy with SPFI and 2WD. Carb and 4WD you'll get around 28 maybe a bit more depending.

 

It's the gearing, tire size, weight, and the SPFI ECU that does it. Heck - I got around 33 MPG with my 2WD EA81 and a Weber.

 

GD

 

 

sorry to butt in guys, I hear "oem" mentioned alot......what is it a brand or factory standard?

 

Cheers

[GeneralDisorder]

sorry to butt in guys, I hear "oem" mentioned alot......what is it a brand or factory standard?

 

Cheers

 

There isn't one. They were shipped here in boats without plugs to prevent the cylinders from rusting - it was the dealer who made that choice.

 

GD

[bgd73]

every old soob owners favorite photograph

 

 

I saved the head with a spark plug tap, the crud on the bottom of this plug was the threads at the top of the plug hole (lucky for me). Why a ford autolite was in there I won't quite figure out...

 

Below is the bosch without the washer. My old cyl heads do not seal well without the washer, so I cleaned the surface a bit more then usual to gain on the space the washer gives it.Where it sits without one, is exactly where I want it. I made up for it just a bit at the other end by cleaning "extra" good .

It is quite a dirty chamber, it does not normally look like this , I had the engine in angles I shouldn't have with 4.5 quarts still in the base.

Another plus about the platinums is absolutely nothing welds to them to wreck threads when the time comes to pull them.This one in photo was spotless and came out easy like the others.

 

I changed wires and plugs, have a bit more heat and no more glowing plugs in the dark. I am disappointed in the fuel mileage. My dl with manual steering sailed into the 40s like my 2wd forever. four dollars in fuel for 200+ miles has my personal record with a 1987 4wd Subaru DL (when gas was under a buck). There are a few more things to do before expecting high gas mileage with my 87 GL with power steering. I do expect mid to high 30's easily.

[mikeshoup]

The plug at the top looks like it says "Autolite". If so, that ain't any NGK.

[4x4_Welder]

Older ceramic is translucent, so it's not glowing, it's the flame front in the chamber lighting it up like a flashlight.

I like NGK V-Powers. I have used them in all my Japanese vehicles, and used to use them on my sleds. Even run them in Honda power equipment!

Different brand engines are designed for different plugs. NGK and Denso are the same basic design, and usually ohm out the same. The Japanese standardized a lot of stuff, just look at axles under Japanese trucks. Most Asian cars like NGKs and Densos. For Ford, use Autolites, and for Dodge, use Champions. Delcos for GMs of course-

[daeron]

sorry to butt in guys, I hear "oem" mentioned alot......what is it a brand or factory standard?

 

Cheers

 

If I understood your question right, here is the answer..

 

"OEM" stands for Original Equipment Manufacturer. In other words, the company who made the headlights, spark plugs, tires, wiper blades, or whatever specific consumable item on the car. GD said they came over on the boat with no sparks in the holes, I can neither confirm nor deny.. but i dont think you were asking if NGK was OEM, it seemed to me you meant, "whats OEM mean?"

[bgd73]

Older ceramic is translucent, so it's not glowing, it's the flame front in the chamber lighting it up like a flashlight.

I like NGK V-Powers. I have used them in all my Japanese vehicles, and used to use them on my sleds. Even run them in Honda power equipment!

Different brand engines are designed for different plugs. NGK and Denso are the same basic design, and usually ohm out the same. The Japanese standardized a lot of stuff, just look at axles under Japanese trucks. Most Asian cars like NGKs and Densos. For Ford, use Autolites, and for Dodge, use Champions. Delcos for GMs of course-

 

Thanks for info. The engine ran good, plugs were firing, as I could see them firing in the dark. The new plugs do not do this. The ngks are really decent, I kept some for spares.

[Petersubaru]

Your "miss" could be related to the fact that the "platinum 4's have a spark gap of .062 and even though the platinum4 plugs can jump the gap much easier then regular copper plugs, I think a gap which is .020 larger then what is called for in a stock situation is to large for the ignitor to push the current effectively ...especially when the coil and ignitor may not be able to deliver the current as when new...also I larger gap even when new will give a slightly weaker spark ...

That's interesting about the washer - you're saying that without it, the plug threads down farther into the cylinder? I don't use the platinums myself, but I've been trying to track down a slight miss in an engine that's got them (platinum +4's). I will take a look at the depth difference as that may be part of the problem.....

 

GD

[Hodaka Rider]

I would be a little worried about the possibility of carbon deposits on the plug threads that are now protruding into the CC. Could make the next plug change difficult. Also, those threads may provide some nice hot spots to facilitate preignition.

[bgd73]

I would be a little worried about the possibility of carbon deposits on the plug threads that are now protruding into the CC. Could make the next plug change difficult. Also, those threads may provide some nice hot spots to facilitate preignition.

 

There is a bonus with new plugs: I have found nothing sticks to them like older ngks, or any brand that rusted. The new ones are in fact different, and even stay "shiny" silver looking, including the same ngks for the same ea82. I am assuming the ngks have been out so long the same part numbers received an upgrade to modern materials. I have a rusty ngk (very old) and one that never will as spares in my tool box.No part number to differentiate them. If I could leave one stuck down even .25 more I would still have no worries about the very old preigniton or detonation problems and higher compression cheaply. The spfi soobs seem to be pushing the limiits already, the car I am tinkering with is the carbed version and has slightly different pistons (as far as I could gather info) and lower compression. The chambers are large enough in any oem ea82 to give me confidence in letting a longer plug fire easily.I just have to find a friendly parts clerk to get longer plugs part numbers...

 

edit: platinum fours is insane, I use the regular cheaper oem looking platinums, and I had no misses, I noticed rusty plugs, therefore the need to change to newer stuff as ell as a bad coil wire that still let the car run great with poor gas mileage.