Temp gauge accuracy, momentary pegs??

[GoldDiggerRoo]

I've noticed lately in my GL10 that the normal operating temp on the digi dash is usually moves between 4-6 bars (one past half full on fuel) but sometimes it'll go into the red for like 5-10 seconds and then return to normal. What is this? Could it be an air buble? I just replaced the water pump last week, the car has good hoses and I'm not losing any fluids.

 

I'm still not a believer in the Digi-dash, neato as it is.

[jeffast]

digi dash's look cool but they are not at all accurate, i know atleast one member who added analog pod gauges so he would know what his engine is doing.

probably a bad ground

[GeneralDisorder]

Clean all your grounds - this is a common problem.

 

GD

[GoldDiggerRoo]

Oh, I'm not sure if it makes a difference but the top of this thing (circled in red) is loose/coming off, the wires are still connected though.

 

[nipper]

I had the same problem, it was a combination of a bad ground and a dying altenator.

 

nipper

[Frank B]

Check the condition of the wires and connector at the temp sender, on the thermostat housing. Or replace the sender. It's like $11 or $13 at autozone.

[GoldDiggerRoo]

Check the condition of the wires and connector at the temp sender, on the thermostat housing. Or replace the sender. It's like $11 or $13 at autozone.

 

I think I'm going to this weekend possibly, I'm also going to replace the coolant temp sensor, the car doesn't want to start when it's warm..... I have to floor it to get it started, but it's fine when it's cold. I'm also going to try and replace the o2 sensor also..... this darn mis is driving me crazy.... guess I should investigate that CEL tonight.

[GoldDiggerRoo]

Well the thing in red in my pic (coolant temp sensor?) is apparently fubar, I checked it again and one of the wires had lost connection and there was some corrosion in the connector. My CEL read as code 21, coolant temp sending unit or circut.

 

So is this the thing for $13 at autozone? Advance auto has a pic of one on their site, but it just looks like a brown plug, don't think that's what I need.

 

Also would this make the car miss all the time? It's really driving me crazy, but that's another thread.......

[mikeshoup]

Are you talking about the thing sitting on top of the t-stat housing? That's the AAV. I'm not entirely sure of the purpose, I think it helps control the idle. You'll find the hose on it heads back into the intake plenum (the silver thingy that says turbo).

[GoldDiggerRoo]

Are you talking about the thing sitting on top of the t-stat housing? That's the AAV. I'm not entirely sure of the purpose, I think it helps control the idle. You'll find the hose on it heads back into the intake plenum (the silver thingy that says turbo).

 

Yeah, on top of the thermostat housing, has 4 screws holding it on, one electrical pulg going into it, two wires inside, looks like a watch mech. from underneath, the thing it mounts to has two hoses conected to it.

 

This thing....

[mikeshoup]

Yeah, that's the Auxiliary Air Valve. And looking at the FSM, it appears to be what controls the cold idle of the car.

[Frank B]

The temp sender is screwed into the manifold just below the thermostat. It has one wire. If you look at the pic you posted, just right of the red circle and below the u shaped black hose.

The messed up wire you mentioned on the AAV (auxiliary air valve) may have something to do with the hard starting????

I think every turbo has an annoying miss.

Get your hands on an FSM or search for the ways to test all the sensors, TPS, MAF, CTS, etc and test them all. Add a few ground wires too. One from the manifold, one from the block, and one from the exhaust(for the O2). Clean the MAF with electrical contact cleaner(leaved no residue). Have you given it a tune up?

[GoldDiggerRoo]

The temp sender is screwed into the manifold just below the thermostat. It has one wire. If you look at the pic you posted, just right of the red circle and below the u shaped black hose.

The messed up wire you mentioned on the AAV (auxiliary air valve) may have something to do with the hard starting????

I think every turbo has an annoying miss.

Get your hands on an FSM or search for the ways to test all the sensors, TPS, MAF, CTS, etc and test them all. Add a few ground wires too. One from the manifold, one from the block, and one from the exhaust(for the O2). Clean the MAF with electrical contact cleaner(leaved no residue). Have you given it a tune up?

 

This is more than an annoying miss, this is my EA71 Brat is faster type of miss. I've done a tune up on it, plugs and wires, cleaned the MAF, still haven't done cap, rotor or fuel filter. What gets me is the car has had the miss since day one but I had no CEL. One night I got a CEL and after a while the car started to run great (like it should), that lasted for one evening until the next morning, when halfway on the way to work the CEL went out and it started running like crap again, has been running that way since. It's terrible when the turbo isn't spooled, runs as good as an n/a EA82 when it spools.

 

The fact that it went away for a while and came back leads me away from anything mechanical. I did replace the broken purge control valve and all the vaccum lines, also checked the hoses going to the turbo and plenum, everything was tight.

 

It's driving me crazy, I really need to drive the car, but I'm afraid of hurting it worse than it already is.

[Frank B]

You mentioning it running better with boost reminded me of my first turbo(86 4wd 3-door). It had a bad miss, like not getting out of it's own way miss, that had the same symptom. It turned out to be a bad injector. I found it by pulling the plug wires off the plugs one at a time untill I found one that didn't effect the idle when removed.

Did you get a code with the CEL?

Still check the TPS, there has been talk of a lot of false codes associated with a bad or mis-adjusted TPS.

[GoldDiggerRoo]

You mentioning it running better with boost reminded me of my first turbo(86 4wd 3-door). It had a bad miss, like not getting out of it's own way miss, that had the same symptom. It turned out to be a bad injector. I found it by pulling the plug wires off the plugs one at a time untill I found one that didn't effect the idle when removed.

Did you get a code with the CEL?

Still check the TPS, there has been talk of a lot of false codes associated with a bad or mis-adjusted TPS.

 

That's the kind of miss it seems to be, when I first drove the car it almost felt as if it were something bad trans related (this car is an auto) a shudder almost, that's what it still feels like. The car is ok, cruises along with no problem on flat ground (still has the miss though) but forget hills.

 

I did get a code with the CEL, 21.... bad coolant temp sensor or circut... but I'm not sure that would make the car miss the way it does. Also if someone doesn't have an AAV they want to sell me cheap would it be ok for me to solder the wire back into place and stick the top back on with silicon (like the last guy); this doesn't seem to be a parts store item.

 

Oh, I searched and couldn't find anything on how to check the TPS, just threads I've already read.

[Frank B]

There shouldn't be anyhting wrong with soldering the wires. As long as it's a good connection, the AAV doesn't care. The coolant temp sender is the one wire unit near the thermostat, the coolant temp SENSOR, that's on the back side of the manifold passenger side and it has two wires. A bad coolant temp SENSOR will cause a poor running condition. The sensor is for the ECM input, the sender is just for the guage.

 

The sensor is mounted horizontally, the sender is mounted vertically.

 

You may luck out and just have a corroded connection, or wires. You can solder the wires directly too the sensors, but you should have a disconnect in the wire.

[GoldDiggerRoo]

There shouldn't be anyhting wrong with soldering the wires. As long as it's a good connection, the AAV doesn't care. The coolant temp sender is the one wire unit near the thermostat, the coolant temp SENSOR, that's on the back side of the manifold passenger side and it has two wires. A bad coolant temp SENSOR will cause a poor running condition. The sensor is for the ECM input, the sender is just for the guage.

 

The sensor is mounted horizontally, the sender is mounted vertically.

 

You may luck out and just have a corroded connection, or wires. You can solder the wires directly too the sensors, but you should have a disconnect in the wire.

 

Yeah, I'm gonna check that stuff in the next couple days. part of uh "modified" exhaust came loose the other night, so the car is mretty much un-drivable until I get it put back up. Not sure what the AAV does but I know the car doesn't run well at all without it, I had to move ti across the yard the other day , when it started it idled around 2k, but would die in gear, must be important.

[daeron]

you should go to the USMB and read the procedure for checking codes.. both those stored in memory, and put it in the diagnostic mode as well. This can (somehow, i must profess ignorance as to "how" it works) indicate faults in certain components (OR their wiring circuit!) that would not cause the computer to turn the CEL on. Also, the ECU, when it encounters "too many" problems, goes into a "limp mode," which is what sounds like what happened when your CEL DID come on, and it ran well...

 

If you would like, I have two pdf files that are, between them, a sizeable chunk of the FSM.. its all broken down in there, how to do it, why to do it, and what youre doing... its well worth doing, just as a "used-car tuneup" procedure, even if there are no apparent problems. PM me your email address, and let me know if you ccan take 10 megs attached to one email, or if i need to send the two files in separate emails.

 

Somebody has it posted on their webpage for download, but i cant remember who and I wouldnt be entirely comfortable linking to their page, and causing them traffic anyhow.. but lots of us have it. It can be helpful, and it can be frustratingly not applicable to your vehicle.. but this part is universal, as are most of the sections covered.

[GoldDiggerRoo]

Yeah that would be great if you'ld send that to me @ dodge440coronut@yahoo.com

 

Well, I soldered the AAV back together, but the top won't stay on, not sure if that makes a difference. I also cleaned the plug for the CTS and after a reset no CEL. The car still runs like poo, maybe even worse than before... will barely move when the turbo isn't spooled, is maybe as quick as an N/A EA82 when it does, but still has the miss.

 

While I had it apart I noticed that the plastic tube going from the turbo to the MAF is cracked in several places at the bottom where it goes onto the turbo, would this be a possible cause for the miss?

 

I've really got to get this thing figured out fast, as I have to start driving this thing everyday starting tomorrow, can't use moms any longer. I'd hate to hurt it worse by driving it, but I don't have any other choice now.

[GoldDiggerRoo]

Well, had to start driving the car today, it does actually run a little better since the coolant temp sensor fix, I also had a chance to pull the plug wires off one at a time, it didn't seem to make a difference when I pulled the #1 plug wire, so I'm going to assume that's where my miss is.

 

So how do I check the injector?

 

I've also seen people talking about using turbo Z injectiors as an upgrade, I have an '83 N/A Z sitting around, could I swap in one from it to check?

 

Sorry for all the basic questions guys, this is my first FI Subaru....I've done a lot of searching the boards and reading but haven't had much luck with finding info to do checks.

 

If you could send me that FSM daeron that would be awesome.

 

Thanks in advance

[mikeshoup]

Run a compression check on the motor to rule out that it isn't low compression causing problems on cyl#1

[GoldDiggerRoo]

Run a compression check on the motor to rule out that it isn't low compression causing problems on cyl#1

 

I'll likely do that eventually, gonna try to rule out the injector first; being that the miss went away for a while I don't think it's a timing or internal issue.