stickedy Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 I have two more problems or questions (It seems that it will never end...): 1. My electrical fan won't start with the thermoswitch. So, the thermoswitch should be bad, but I tested it with an ohmmeter and the resistor values seem to be right. I also tried to baypass the thermoswitch with a piece of wire at the connector, but nothing happened, the fan didn't start. But I've installed a manual switch which turns on the fan directly and it works. So neither the fan itself nor the thermoswitch seems to be the problem. But what else could it be? 2. I'm currently trying to install a digital dash as replacement for my analog one (yeah, I know, everyone does it the other way, but I love those digital displays!) and I managed to figure out all connections (thanks to the FSM) and the dash works fine, but I have a problem with the park light: It stays on when the Ignition and the main light switch are off (No, it's not the park light switch near the steering wheel, this one is off and switching it, changes nothing ) . If I flick the light switch to on, the two position lights in the front go off and the two main lights are going on instead! This is an very odd behaviour and I guess, I forgot to connect some wire, but I really don't know which. So has anyone some idea on this point? Something to add: The digital dash is for an automatic transmission (fine, 5 more indicators for some things), my car (and therefore my analog dash) is for manual transmission. Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syonyk Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 With the thermoswitch, it may be a bad relay preventing things from actuating. -=Russ=- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickedy Posted November 20, 2006 Author Share Posted November 20, 2006 With the thermoswitch, it may be a bad relay preventing things from actuating. I thought there is no relay for the fan circuit? If there is one, where is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edrach Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Try running the fan directly off the battery; it could be the fan motor itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syonyk Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Try running the fan directly off the battery; it could be the fan motor itself. It sounds like the motor is good, if it works with a manual switch. There may not be a relay, but every cooling system I've run across has some form of fan relay. -=Russ=- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 There's two relays mounted behind the p/s strut tower. One is for A/C, and one is for the fan. I can't remember which. I *think* the tan colored one is for the fan, and the black is for the A/C. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickedy Posted April 19, 2007 Author Share Posted April 19, 2007 To come back on this topic. It was winter, so cooling was no problem, but now it's getting hotter and hotter... I've searched fot his relay but couldn't find it. My technical english is not so good, what is a "p/s strut" in detail? I really didn't get this. So, many thinks to do in the next weeks... And a fully functional thermoswitch controlled fan is also on the list Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 the p/s is "passengers side". the relays for the fan are just in front of the passengers side strut tower...at least in the US they are. not sure if they flopped things around in countries where they drive on the other side of the road. anyway...the a/c relay and fan relay should be together in front of the strut tower. how many fans does yours have? two or one? here's how to test it. unplug the relays until the a/c doesn't work, this will tell you which one is for the a/c and you'll know that relay is good. then swap the other (one or two depending on your vehicle) relays into the a/c relay socket. best to turn the a/c on-off, don't just leave it on while plugging in your relays, to prevent ruining them. one of the relays you insert in the a/c will not work, the a/c won't come on and you'll know that relay is bad and that relay socket is for the fan that doesn't work. sorry to make that so long, it's really simple. just swap the relay's out to narrow down which one is causing the problem. if it's just two relays it should be very, very easy to verify. relay's often start working if you move them, knock them or beat them around a little, so don't be surprised if it starts working when you go unplugging and moving them around. but don't plan on it working for long, they'll eventually stick again very shortly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickedy Posted April 19, 2007 Author Share Posted April 19, 2007 Ah, OK "passenger side", I could have guessed this... OK, I will have look in a couple of minutes. But my doesn't have an A/C (air conditioning, right?) and just one fan... So, it's possible somewehere else. Nevertheless I will check this and I will report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 i haven't seen one with one fan and no air conditioner so i'm not sure what you'll see. my guess is that you'll only have one relay there, so you won't be able to "swap" them around like i mentioned. to test one relay, you can test it with a voltmeter. also if you know where to apply the 12 volts to you can give it 12 volts and see if it "clicks". if you're not sure, post a picture of that area and we can probably tell you which one is the relay you need to check. it's usually a square looking black item with 4 contacts and 4 wires connecting to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickedy Posted April 19, 2007 Author Share Posted April 19, 2007 Hmm, yeah no problem to check this relais or replacing it since I have 4 cars here with identical configuration of fans and a/c. But I can't find any black square there, just one device with plain metal surface (besides the air filter): This looks too odd to be a relais, but there are 4 wires, so perhaps it's it nonetheless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 that is not a relay. do you have an FSM or owners manual you can look at to see if it says anything. check under the hood, they usually have diagrams under the hood for vacuum routing and other information...maybe it would show a relay location, but probably not? if you take more pic's maybe we'll see it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickedy Posted April 19, 2007 Author Share Posted April 19, 2007 Hmm, yeah. I guessed that. I've checked the FSM about that and HTKYSA but there isn't even a word about some relay somewhere... There's nothing other like an relay in the whole engine bay. Some kind of miracle... Perhaps I should call Subaru Germany about this. BTW: What's this device on my picture? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 I have two more problems or questions (It seems that it will never end...): 1. My electrical fan won't start with the thermoswitch. So, the thermoswitch should be bad, but I tested it with an ohmmeter and the resistor values seem to be right. Are you sure you're testing the right switch? It is located in the radiator, on the edge, near electric fan connector. The reason I ask is because it is a switch, and therefore should have either zero ohms or infinite ohms. And neither pole should have continuity to the body of the switch either. What resistance values where you testing for? where you testing the Thermosensor for the ECU? 2. I'm currently trying to install a digital dash as replacement for my analog one (yeah, I know, everyone does it the other way, but I love those digital displays!) and I managed to figure out all connections (thanks to the FSM) and the dash works fine, but I have a problem with the park light: It stays on when the Ignition and the main light switch are off (No, it's not the park light switch near the steering wheel, this one is off and switching it, changes nothing ) . If I flick the light switch to on, the two position lights in the front go off and the two main lights are going on instead! This is an very odd behaviour and I guess, I forgot to connect some wire, but I really don't know which. So has anyone some idea on this point? Something to add: The digital dash is for an automatic transmission (fine, 5 more indicators for some things), my car (and therefore my analog dash) is for manual transmission. Thanks in advance Can you tell me the years of your car and your donor digidash car? I can look through my FSMs. I am suspect that one of he dash illumination wires is hooked up wrong, or perhaps a diode was left out of the wiring? The digidash does require a few diodes. They are wired up as 2 pole plugs with the diode capped on to it in the digidash harness. You may have missed them when you pulled the digidash. But I can't remeber which circuits and in what direction the flow is managed, and if that could cause what you're describing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Here is where the relay would be. I'm not sure but I think the fan relay may only be for A/C equiped cars. Used to supplementally turn on the Fan during A/C use, regardless of Temp Switch in Radiator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickedy Posted April 19, 2007 Author Share Posted April 19, 2007 Are you sure you're testing the right switch? It is located in the radiator, on the edge, near electric fan connector. The reason I ask is because it is a switch, and therefore should have either zero ohms or infinite ohms. And neither pole should have continuity to the body of the switch either. What resistance values where you testing for? where you testing the Thermosensor for the ECU? Yes, I'm sure I've tested the right one. The FSM says this: 248°F/120°C = 14.9 - 17.3 Ohm 212°F/100°C = 26.2 - 29.3 Ohm 176°F/80°C = 47.5 - 56.8 Ohm 122°F/50°C = 133.9 - 178.9 Ohm And these were the results I was getting. With some kind of guessing the temperature, but it seems to be OK. I also tested the test from HTKYSA with grounding to bring the fan on, but it didn't work. But I could change the thermoswitch shouldn't be that problem. But I really can't remember when this behaviour started so guess I already tried another thermo switch... Can you tell me the years of your car and your donor digidash car? I can look through my FSMs. I am suspect that one of he dash illumination wires is hooked up wrong, or perhaps a diode was left out of the wiring? The digidash does require a few diodes. They are wired up as 2 pole plugs with the diode capped on to it in the digidash harness. You may have missed them when you pulled the digidash. But I can't remeber which circuits and in what direction the flow is managed, and if that could cause what you're describing Hmm, yeah seems to be some kind of diodes... I haven't any so far. Vut it's installed yet, was only some kind of testing, but I want to do this in the near future (it's getting warmer ). Could you please have a look where those diodes needed to be? The donor car should someting 1987+ (I really don't know) and my car is 1989. So everything works except that odd light problem and most likely the fuel gauge (which I expect since the sender unit should be different, but I can't test it since my tank was virtually empty when I was running the test last time). Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickedy Posted April 19, 2007 Author Share Posted April 19, 2007 [ATTACH]4814[/ATTACH] Here is where the relay would be. I'm not sure but I think the fan relay may only be for A/C equiped cars. Used to supplementally turn on the Fan during A/C use, regardless of Temp Switch in Radiator Hmm, at this positition there's just a valve for my pneumatic suspension and that vacuum tank. All my other cars without air suspension haven't anything there except the vacuum tank, hust a couple of wires... So, I will change the thermoswitch tomorrow one more time... It's kind of fun, there is so much space besides the radiator... :-\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 there should be a relay somewhere, and those fail quite often. particularly the fan relays. i have a bad one right now as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 Yes, I'm sure I've tested the right one. The FSM says this:248°F/120°C = 14.9 - 17.3 Ohm 212°F/100°C = 26.2 - 29.3 Ohm 176°F/80°C = 47.5 - 56.8 Ohm 122°F/50°C = 133.9 - 178.9 Ohm You're measuring the Thermosensor. Not the THERMOSWITCH What you are measureing is the sensor that tells the ECU what temp the engine is at in order to run efficiently. It does not control the Fan. Isn't anyone else catchin that. The Switch is mounted IN THE RADIATOR. It is either on. (0.000 ohms) or off(infinite resistance). Use a jumper at it's connection and the fan should come on. Note: the only way this wouldn't be true is if the German ECU and fan setup is completely different in this regard. But US models use a simple on/off thermoswitch, nothing with variable resistance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 19, 2007 Share Posted April 19, 2007 nope i didn't catch that, good call. it's very confusing...there are essentially 3 different "temp sensors". (4 in an XT6 engine bay for those that like trivia). one for the ECU, one for the temperature gauge in the dash and one for the fans. the one for the fans is a thermoswitch like he just mentioned. it's the one that screws into the radiator, should be the only thing with a wire screwed into the radiator. maybe the wire is just corroded, dirty or not plugged in? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickedy Posted April 19, 2007 Author Share Posted April 19, 2007 Yes, I confused thermoswitch with thermometer! But I got different Ohm-values when testing and I tested the thermoswitch for sure! I didn't mess around with the two other sensors, I even don't know where they are exactly. It's been a couple of months, but I'm sure about this. Anyway, the fan doesn't come on when bridging the connector of the thermoswitch (and it was the right side of the connector ). OK, I will change the thermoswitch tomorrow and we will see. I will test its function before with hot water. At whicht temperature should it be 0 Ohm instead of infinite? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Check the voltage across the thermoswitch and see if you have 12 volts across it. If not, then the problem is a lack of power to the circuit. My manual for a '88 shows fuse 15 is for the fan and the power goes to the fan then through the thermoswitch and to ground. Since you bypassed the switch already and know the fan works the problem seems to be due to a lack of power in the circuit so check the fuses. I wouldn't bother removing the switch until you prove it is really bad. I would guess that the switch should go to zero ohms at around 205 deg. F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 Check the voltage across the thermoswitch and see if you have 12 volts across it. If not, then the problem is a lack of power to the circuit. My manual for a '88 shows fuse 15 is for the fan and the power goes to the fan then through the thermoswitch and to ground. Since you bypassed the switch already and know the fan works the problem seems to be due to a lack of power in the circuit so check the fuses. I wouldn't bother removing the switch until you prove it is really bad. I would guess that the switch should go to zero ohms at around 205 deg. F. If your bridging across it's connector, and get nothing, then it is likely a power supply issue like cougar says. And 198 - 208F is what the book says for the switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hendrik Posted April 20, 2007 Share Posted April 20, 2007 I have two more problems or questions (It seems that it will never end...): May be there is as well a difference between the USA version and Europe. Mine , sold new in Germany . (super station wagon , ea82T engine , digital dash ) 1986 , 4wd , did definitively NOT have a relay for the radiater fan. I did add it myself as I thougt it would be better. I am away for some months , so giving details now , is difficult. some information is here , but not really what you are looking for. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=65843 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stickedy Posted April 21, 2007 Author Share Posted April 21, 2007 It seems that the difference is, that in the US nearly every car was sold with A/C where in Germany/Europe this not the case. And as we figured out, the relay is for turning on the fan when the A/C begins to work, so it doesn't really depend on the thermo switch... I got too little time today for intensive testing, but I guess tomorrow would be the day for fixing this one and for all And thanks for your link! When im finished with the installation of the digital dash, I will do some work with the wires (for example that it's indicated when the fan runs or when the air generator runs - that AT-signals must have some use ), perhaps I will do your improvement also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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