I plugged EGR on Carb model ...

[smelly_cat]

This is a great post. Since I saw a picture of were the EGR is. I am going to check it out and see why my ECS or egr light comes on after driving 15 minutes.

SC

[Subaru_dude]

do any old soobs have 2 catallytic converters? cuz mine does and it made me wonder if it was a california car.

 

p.s. this thread is getting off topic isn't it, lol

[mikeshoup]

All 80s soobs have 2 cats. Probably even the new ones (though I don't know for sure).

 

The FSM says the front cat is a typical 3-way (the one at the y-pipe), and it doesn't say anything about the 2nd cat. I think the 2nd cat can be done with personally...

[DerFahrer]

but it also sends the vapor back through your engine to make sure you burn every partical of gas that you put in your tank.

 

I thought this was what the EVAP system was for?

 

And I was always under the impression that the catalytic converter was where the Y-pipe met (on nonturbos of course, turbos are in DP), and that the canister behind that was a resonator, not a catalytic converter.

[jeffast]

oh the irony i got board and checked the cel on my chevy at work today total egr failure i laughed my rump roast off after all this bashing on my part i'm definatly gonna repair it though it's a good thing

[bgd73]

I just read an entire chapter about vehicle emissions and standards created over the years in a chiltons for 1985-1997. Old Soobs are in fact very extreme in thier pursuit of cleaner air emissions. After just 3 of them with ea82, and not known to live in an area of high air pollutants for engine to take in, I still have to take egr apart- it is horrifying.

I do leave the good stuff:

PCV

fuel vapors canister (carb float, and gas tank)

A few heat rising "things" at top end of engine

catalytic convertor (the front one on oem y-pipes , the second one is a sound resonator where I live not emission related)

 

This article made me feel less guilty about my hatred for egr in regards to external air pollutants and what can happen in an engine that may hit 4000 degrees combustion temp (not an ea82, but none the less it was stated) or other anomalies. I must have something in my area.

I have even seen the "plasma" (my word for it) which was closely described as "ozone" being created by the car itself, according to this book. I have described wrongfully what this book has defined exactly, on an ea82 EGR'd (all oem in other words).

I am confident about taking egr out. Willing to guess an emissons test on my old soob against one that has egr over-functioning would pass with flying colors in comparison to the egr one in my area.

I don't even like tinkering with this EGR stuff- I HAVE TO for health reasons and the car.

My guess is that on my egr plugged I am keeping the fire from reaching a certain temp that creates other grotesque chemicals.I also read about "quenching" where fuel is always wasted in every engine on cold cylinder walls. Therefore I keep the heat rise gadgets for top end, like a clutch fan for the carb (my ea82 didn't come with one and stayed cool). It is not like I am being rebellious here...The EGR has done things to bring prejudice opinions when I try to describe it. from common sense to bizarre- all of the problems I have associated with egr did indeed stop after removing it.

[DerFahrer]

My guess is that on my egr plugged I am keeping the fire from reaching a certain temp that creates other grotesque chemicals.

 

You have just completely contradicted your entire thread in this statement.

 

I feel like I'm just repeating what everyone said all over again, but the only pollutant that is produced when the combustion temperatures increase is NOx. And reintroducing incombustible exhaust gases back into the combustion chamber brings that temperature back down, thereby reducing NOx emissions.

 

Every other pollutant emitted by an internal combustion engine decreases with higher temperatures, because those higher temperatures essentially complete the combustion process. That... is what the catalytic converter is for.

 

So either come to the understanding that you ARE INCREASING the amount in which your car pollutes and just be an ********************* and don't care, or put the EGR system back on and do the environment a favor.

[Frank B]

I thought this was what the EVAP system was for?

 

The EVAP or carbon canister is to deal with the fuel vapors. Venting the fuel vapors to the atmosphere is just as bad as not treating the exhaust. It is to keep the unburned hydrocarbons out of the air. The EVAP puts those fuel vaoprs from the gas tank, and carb bowl back into the engine through the intake manifold and burns them off.

 

Removing the emissions is a bad idea, no matter how you look at it. Yes your car can run smoother, and removing the cat can make more power, but only if it's the old pellet type or if it's plugged. Have you ever looked through a new cat? A good, modern "high flow" cat that's made for engines up to 460 cubic inches isn't going to have much restriction for a 1.8 liter.....

I like the air pumps some manufacturers use. it forces cool fresh air into the exhaust to give the unburned hydrocarbons oxygen to complete the burn.

I like trees, I recycle, I bought my 89 hatch so I can park my inefficient ford truck(12mpg), and I like my kids breathing clean air....

[DerFahrer]

The EVAP or carbon canister is to deal with the fuel vapors. Venting the fuel vapors to the atmosphere is just as bad as not treating the exhaust. It is to keep the unburned hydrocarbons out of the air. The EVAP puts those fuel vaoprs from the gas tank, and carb bowl back into the engine through the intake manifold and burns them off.

I know, but The Scooby had said the following quote was part of the purpose of the EGR system:

 

but it also sends the vapor back through your engine to make sure you burn every partical of gas that you put in your tank.

[GeneralDisorder]

I like trees, I recycle, I bought my 89 hatch so I can park my inefficient ford truck(12mpg), and I like my kids breathing clean air....

 

Hope you have an open mind then

 

The facts are in, and sadly recycling does NOT save trees, and in fact in almost all cases (alumnium is one of the very few exceptions, but there is real money in alumnium) it is worse for the environment (and air quality) to "curbside" recycle. I'm not talking about industrial and commercial recycling as thats been going on for decades because it just makes sense, and it's profitable.

 

Have a read of this:

http://www.perc.org/pdf/ps28.pdf

 

And download the Penn & Teller BuII$hit eppisode about recycling from your favorite file sharing network.

 

It's almost sad in a way, but it's true. We have all been brainwashed. I told the collection company to take my recycle bins away because ALL my stuff is going in the trash.

 

GD

[skishop69]

I see what you mean GD. Talk about a thread taking a bad turn.

[Frank B]

My last off topic reply in this post I promise...

 

I don't curbside recycle, And I don't throw everything away like a mindless, selfish noob. We don't have curbside here anyway, not even for trash. Unfortunately, many people burn trash here because of that, they're just too lazy I recon. I have to take my stuff right to the dump. Since I'm going there, I take my recyclables. Cardboard, paper, plastic, used oil, batteries, etc. All the metal I take to the scrap yard to get some cash. I don't make special trips to do it either, just when I am going that way for more than one reason. I compost our scraps, I give away things I don't need but are still useful, I pick up trash on the ground instead of walking past it, I don't burn trash or dump used oil on the ground, I use only fallen, sick, or dead trees for firewood, etc, etc, etc. I know it doesn't account for much in the big picture. And that there are too many people, governments, and corporate companies that just don't give a *************** about it for one person to make a difference. But I try. I don't, and can't do this anywhere near as efficient as I want to, but I do what I can, and I feel better about it. Imagine if everybody said "it doesn't matter what I do" and stopped recycling. There's more to it than filling a bin, but I won't waste anymore space here.

One of the more important things that I've learned is that when your faced with a decision, the easy way is usually the wrong way.

[GeneralDisorder]

Seriously - read the PDF. Recycling has been used throughout history, but for the most part you are being self-destructive by using the conventional recycling systems in place.

 

Want more trees? Use more paper. We grow trees to make paper - just like we grow potatoes to make french fries. If we stop using paper we will have FEWER trees. We have more trees in this country now than we did 100 years ago. So what's the problem exactly??

 

Recycling is a manufactureing process - those recycleable papers you so diligently drop at the dump are then picked up by a truck - not the same truck that picks up the trash - transported to a manufacturing facility (usually near a forest) ground up, bleached, pressed, etc to make a usable (slightly) product. You are left with a nasty chemical sludge of bleach, pulb, etc - what do you do what that crap??

 

You are making the economic situation for your local government worse, you are (often, but not always) haveing an adverse effect on the environment, and you are putting people to work with your tax dollars on what are essencially "make work" jobs that accomplish nothing.

 

If we had a more informed consumer base, people wouldn't get the pleasure they do out of recycling. I think Penn said it best: "if you want to feel good while being stupid and accomplishing nothing maybe Heroin is for you!"

 

GD

[Loyale 2.7 Turbo]

I just wanna say This: I Really Love the Enviroment, I Like Trees, Animals, Lakes, Sky... My Whole Planet ... I love Enviroment, but thinkin´ back in my EA82 (Now Weberized) Subie, The Fact for Mine is that Engine Works Better Without the EGR...

I Don´t Know Why exactly, Maybe the Carbed EA82 from 1985 has a "Wrong" EGR system... but the one that Plugged the EGR of my EA82 was a Mechanic at the Dealer ´cos my subie´s EA82 was Unstable...

Without EGR, my 1985 Carbed EA82 is Smoother...

Could you Tell me Why?

[Frank B]

Seriously - read the PDF. Recycling has been used throughout history, but for the most part you are being self-destructive by using the conventional recycling systems in place.

 

Want more trees? Use more paper. We grow trees to make paper - just like we grow potatoes to make french fries. If we stop using paper we will have FEWER trees. We have more trees in this country now than we did 100 years ago. So what's the problem exactly??

 

Recycling is a manufactureing process - those recycleable papers you so diligently drop at the dump are then picked up by a truck - not the same truck that picks up the trash - transported to a manufacturing facility (usually near a forest) ground up, bleached, pressed, etc to make a usable (slightly) product. You are left with a nasty chemical sludge of bleach, pulb, etc - what do you do what that crap??

 

You are making the economic situation for your local government worse, you are (often, but not always) haveing an adverse effect on the environment, and you are putting people to work with your tax dollars on what are essencially "make work" jobs that accomplish nothing.

 

If we had a more informed consumer base, people wouldn't get the pleasure they do out of recycling. I think Penn said it best: "if you want to feel good while being stupid and accomplishing nothing maybe Heroin is for you!"

 

GD

 

I have read your PDF, and many others. Just like any publication it is biased and narrow minded.

Using more paper to save trees is just ridiculous. All the paper we use is made from farmed pine, which is smart because is grows fast. But they clear native forest to plant the pine. There is more life in a forest other than trees. And there are more trees than just pine! There are more trees here now than 100 years ago because all the trees were forested! National parks, and national forests were established to protect the forests so they would grow back, and they have. That's why there are more trees now, not because we use more paper?!?!

It isn't just melting something down to use again, it's reusing it so it does'nt go into a hole. Paper and cardboard are reused in anything from packing materials to fuel for heat. It can be composted into soil instead of placed 100 feet below the surface and be wasted. I pull boxes out of the cardbaord dumpster to ship items in, that's recycling too.

That different truck that hauls the recyclables uses the same amount of fuel that the SECOND trash truck uses to haul the extra trash your putting in your can. Everything you put on your curb has to be hauled, why not send it to be re-used instead on into a hole. There's a Trex plant not far from here that uses plastic right out of the dumpster to use in the "plastic wood" they make.

There are many ways to recycle, and use materials that are easier to recylce that are just not being used. In order for the system to evolve into something better, it needs to be supported not aborted! It seems to me that your actions and opinions are fed with your anger, and I think your pissed because you feel deceived and defeated. Well, instead of turning your back on recycling because somebody said it wasn't productive, make an effort to change it, make it more effecient, find ways to imporve it.

You have your opinion, and I have mine. That's the beauty of it all and our right to use. I will always be as conservative as I can, reuse what I can, and teach my kids to recycle and not to be wasteful. Oh, and please stop refering to me and/or my actions as being stupid.

[bgd73]

I may have figured out the egr mishaps on this one...

 

 

The "anti-backfire valve" was hacked, passenger cylinder head is different (changed from oem- looks like an spfi head)- EGR pressure was opening on its own from idle, all the way thorugh rpm ranges. I had another 87 and I did not touch anything emissions and it worked great as it was all oem. The belly of the unibody invisibly burned into a a shatterable obsidian type stuff- but I stuck with the crazy EGR until the end.

With that said, I have taken the hacked "a-bf" valve out along with plating the pulsating asv (had no purpose anymore). Engine runs great. The last I have heard a sound like it was a friends old 327 chevy (with asv plugged it gained the realistic thump I was hoping for from one side). Another note is with asv plated and removed from engine, there is no backfires when cold.

I think I could rig up an old chrome type breather you could find on a carbed v8 of old and rig up the pcv- like a weber replacement, just to get to adjustments while running.

 

I like clean air too, it is one of my fascinations of 1781cc doing the amount of work it does without sucking down half the planet. If the EGR had a means to be realistically functioning I would have left it- I did not in this case however. Another note is that I was informed both heads had machining done for new gaskets (slight shaving/planing)- bad news for normal pressures in the emissions system (vacuum).

The note about trash recycling- it is kinda funny, where I live now takes all the trash at once, but I still have plastics in one place and cardboards in another, all so they can throw it in the big pile it goes to anyway... I still do not want to break my good habit, I am just ahead of my area like a 1987 soob.

[GeneralDisorder]

I have read your PDF, and many others. Just like any publication it is biased and narrow minded.

 

Really? Can you explain exacly where it's biased, and what factors were not taken into acount - such that you consider it narrow minded?

 

Using more paper to save trees is just ridiculous. All the paper we use is made from farmed pine, which is smart because is grows fast. But they clear native forest to plant the pine. There is more life in a forest other than trees. And there are more trees than just pine! There are more trees here now than 100 years ago because all the trees were forested!

 

I'll just qoute my sources on this one:

 

 

"Consider forests. The amount of new growth that occurs each

year in forests exceeds by a factor of twenty the amount of wood

and paper that is consumed by the world each year (Lomborg 2001,

115). Perhaps partly as a result, temperate forests, most of which

are in North America, Europe, and Russia, actually have expanded

over the last 40 years."

 

All the trees were NOT forested. And the problems occuring in the tropical forests of the world are largely a result of bad property rights management.

 

At any rate, how exactly does recycling paper do anything for forests that are already expanding? And as I said before what do you do with the chemical by-products of (most) recycling?

 

I'm all for using an old box to ship something - that makes SENSE. But grinding it up and trying to bleach it back into toilet paper or copy paper does not. Cheaper (both economically, and environmentally), better quality versions of that stuff can be had if you just start from scratch.

 

 

National parks, and national forests were established to protect the forests so they would grow back, and they have. That's why there are more trees now, not because we use more paper?!?!

 

You are winning my argument for me. EXACTLY. Properly rights management came to the rescue of the forests - NOT recycling.

 

It isn't just melting something down to use again, it's reusing it so it does'nt go into a hole. Paper and cardboard are reused in anything from packing materials to fuel for heat.

 

Burning it causes more pollution than burrying it.

 

It can be composted into soil instead of placed 100 feet below the surface and be wasted.

 

There are chemicals in paper products that are not condusive to composting. For one they break down poorly, and for another the compost may contain harmful chemicals - bad for the old garden in other words. I've been a gardener for many years, and just like acidic leaves, you don't put weird non-organic stuff (the chemical componets of the processed paper) in your compost pile. It does strange things to the plants.

 

I pull boxes out of the cardbaord dumpster to ship items in, that's recycling too.

 

Me too - that's recycling how it SHOULD be. Not the crazy, press-crazed idiocy we have now.

 

That different truck that hauls the recyclables uses the same amount of fuel that the SECOND trash truck uses to haul the extra trash your putting in your can. Everything you put on your curb has to be hauled, why not send it to be re-used instead on into a hole.

 

Approximately 40% of what goes through the recycling system goes right into the landfills anyway. I would prefer it to all go there and spend my 8 billion annual tax dollars on something worthwhile.

 

There are many ways to recycle, and use materials that are easier to recylce that are just not being used. In order for the system to evolve into something better, it needs to be supported not aborted! It seems to me that your actions and opinions are fed with your anger, and I think your pissed because you feel deceived and defeated. Well, instead of turning your back on recycling because somebody said it wasn't productive, make an effort to change it, make it more effecient, find ways to imporve it.

 

Household recycling has been going on now for 25 to 30 years. If it were going to work it already would have. Besides that, the mis-information has created a mindless society that refuses to see the logic and truth of the matter.

 

GD

[Frank B]

I read this just today, http://www.wasteonline.org.uk/resources/InformationSheets/Paper.htm

It makes good sense to me.

 

I have been reading up on this more these past few days than ever before, and it is getting me motivated to keep recycling!

 

But allright, enough is enough, I see how it is. Your not going to stop untill somebody says your right, and everybody else is wrong, or at least me. you proved that with this comment, "You are winning my argument for me".

 

So I'll say it just to end this, your right, I'm wrong. Now lets stop.

 

Oh, and a little tip from one gardner to another, red worms LOVE shreaded newspaper! I never tried cardboard. One more that I just did yesterday, I use scrap drywall(sheetrock) on my lawn and new garden plots to loosen up the clay. It make no sense to buy gypsum when scraps are free. I just pulverize the pieces in a bucket and spread out the powder.

[Frank B]

I may have figured out the egr mishaps on this one...

 

 

The "anti-backfire valve" was hacked, passenger cylinder head is different (changed from oem- looks like an spfi head)- EGR pressure was opening on its own from idle, all the way thorugh rpm ranges. I had another 87 and I did not touch anything emissions and it worked great as it was all oem. The belly of the unibody invisibly burned into a a shatterable obsidian type stuff- but I stuck with the crazy EGR until the end.

With that said, I have taken the hacked "a-bf" valve out along with plating the pulsating asv (had no purpose anymore). Engine runs great. The last I have heard a sound like it was a friends old 327 chevy (with asv plugged it gained the realistic thump I was hoping for from one side). Another note is with asv plated and removed from engine, there is no backfires when cold.

 

I think I could rig up an old chrome type breather you could find on a carbed v8 of old and rig up the pcv- like a weber replacement, just to get to adjustments while running.

 

I like clean air too, it is one of my fascinations of 1781cc doing the amount of work it does without sucking down half the planet. If the EGR had a means to be realistically functioning I would have left it- I did not in this case however. Another note is that I was informed both heads had machining done for new gaskets (slight shaving/planing)- bad news for normal pressures in the emissions system (vacuum).

 

The note about trash recycling- it is kinda funny, where I live now takes all the trash at once, but I still have plastics in one place and cardboards in another, all so they can throw it in the big pile it goes to anyway... I still do not want to break my good habit, I am just ahead of my area like a 1987 soob.

 

It's good to see you figured it out. In this it makes sense to leave it off. But are you going to fix it later, maybe if you have to replace a head gasket in the future you can get the right head on it?

[Frank B]

Oh, and I apologize for taking part in getting this thread off topic.

[GeneralDisorder]

I read this just today, http://www.wasteonline.org.uk/resources/InformationSheets/Paper.htm

It makes good sense to me.

 

I have been reading up on this more these past few days than ever before, and it is getting me motivated to keep recycling!

 

But allright, enough is enough, I see how it is. Your not going to stop untill somebody says your right, and everybody else is wrong, or at least me. you proved that with this comment, "You are winning my argument for me".

 

So I'll say it just to end this, your right, I'm wrong. Now lets stop..

 

Not trying to make ya angry or anything - just showing the other side of a poorly represented viewpoint is all. We all want a good environment. Living in the NW, I love the outdoors. I just don't like preying to the garbage gods and sorting through eggshells and coffee grounds (which go in my compost anyway, but for *most* folks) if it's not going to be a worthwhile endevour. The whole idea of (houshold) recycling is that there is a net benefit to the local econemy. For the last 15 years New York has had a net loss.

 

Oh, and a little tip from one gardner to another, red worms LOVE shreaded newspaper! I never tried cardboard. One more that I just did yesterday, I use scrap drywall(sheetrock) on my lawn and new garden plots to loosen up the clay. It make no sense to buy gypsum when scraps are free. I just pulverize the pieces in a bucket and spread out the powder.

 

Interesting - now that I think on it, worms for fishing are always sold in shredded newspaper.... makes sense. Newsprint is ok for the most part in compost as it breaks down easily, and for the most part they use soy-based ink. It's the magazine "glossy" stuff, and the copy paper and "glossy" cardboard packaging that can't be composted easily and often contains nasty stuff.

 

Drywall (gypsum) is 100% natural (except for the paper backing). They actually mine the stuff. My last job was as a drywall estimator actually. Funny you should mention that. I don't have a "lawn", and I use compost for my raised beds. Drywall scraps are indeed easy to come by - just drop by any new sub-division. Not a bad idea at all, and completely free - they will freely give you as much scrap as you can haul because they have to haul it off anyway.

 

That's the GOOD, SANE type of recycling right there. You have a real use for something that would otherwise be garbage - heck most of us board members are doing society a HUGE favor just by keeping our old soobs on the road. But trying to turn *real* garbage into products that no one wants, that are worse for the environment, and aren't as good as their scratch-based counterparts..... it's a "solution looking for a problem" and there just is NOT the problem that we had been led to beleive there was.

 

GD

[bgd73]

I always take photos of what I do.. here is the 87 that is in this thread. I left the actual EGR valve there, it started acting like the "air bypass" the spfi soob has, preventing the siphon of crankcase oil when engine braking , keeping the blue smoke from oil burning from cylinders (the rubber line in the middle of photo that is attached to the top of the egr valve). In other words when throttle valve is all the way closed, it is getting clean air to fill the cylinders instead of starving and resorting to the crankcase blowby and closes at an idle, so it perfectly works only when engine braking. I will not be fixing the egr on this one. If I should get an spfi soob again, I would keep EGR there- the implementaion was very simple in comparison. This carb was even worse than my spfi when egr went wrong, along with other work mentioned to agitate it in the first place.

 

[Gloyale]

I just read an entire chapter about vehicle emissions and standards created over the years in a chiltons for 1985-1997. Old Soobs are in fact very extreme in thier pursuit of cleaner air emissions. After just 3 of them with ea82, and not known to live in an area of high air pollutants for engine to take in, I still have to take egr apart- it is horrifying.

I do leave the good stuff:

PCV

fuel vapors canister (carb float, and gas tank)

A few heat rising "things" at top end of engine

catalytic convertor (the front one on oem y-pipes , the second one is a sound resonator where I live not emission related)

 

I am confident about taking egr out. Willing to guess an emissons test on my old soob against one that has egr over-functioning would pass with flying colors in comparison to the egr one in my area.

I don't even like tinkering with this EGR stuff- I HAVE TO for health reasons and the car.

My guess is that on my egr plugged I am keeping the fire from reaching a certain temp that creates other grotesque chemicals.I also read about "quenching" where fuel is always wasted in every engine on cold cylinder walls. Therefore I keep the heat rise gadgets for top end, like a clutch fan for the carb (my ea82 didn't come with one and stayed cool). It is not like I am being rebellious here...The EGR has done things to bring prejudice opinions when I try to describe it. from common sense to bizarre- all of the problems I have associated with egr did indeed stop after removing it.

I live in an area that is both cold as snot and has emmissions testing. And My 86 carbed GL wagon had to have it's egr valve replaced because it was clogged. THIS CAUSED IT TO FAIL EMISSIONS WITH HIGH NOx!!! Since a CLOGGED EGR is the same as NO EGR then I think you are WRONG about your car passing just fine. Glad to hear your OK with poisoning the world for our kids and their kids.

Oh and there aren't any heat risers on the top end except for the hot air intake tube up from the y-pipe. The clutch fan is for cooling not heating. Dude you don't make sense.

[GeneralDisorder]

Dude you don't make sense.

 

Yeah - tell me about it :-\

 

We've been putting up with it for a while now. Unfortunately he doesn't get the message - prefering instead to presume that I'm the only one that doesn't understand him, when in large part NO ONE understands him. There's just not a lot of people like myself that will stand up and call BS. You should see some of the ranting I've done to try and keep the information accuracy on the up and up around him

 

GD

[jacobs]

Glad to hear your OK with poisoning the world for our kids and their kids.

 

If everyone that is on these automobile forums removed their egr's, it would be an extreemly small percentage increase in total emissions into the air. It's not going to harm ANYONE.