At Temp Light Blinking

[johnceggleston]

95 leg 2.2, 172k miles, with a 96 leg 4eat w/ 125k miles.

 

i swapped in the trans about 3k miles ago and it has run fine until now. (i did not swap the TCU.) my son came home from college yesterday, and when i took it for a drive today the AT TEMP light was blinking at start up. i stopped the car, and re started it, and it wasn't blinking. i stopped/started it again, and it was back.

 

it feels as though it has slight TB. after turning tight circles i can feel the rear end relax if i shift into neutral, but no shuttering or jumping. i have had that before on my 97 when the duty c failed.

 

i put in the FWD fuse and no change with driving, no change with blinking, and no FWD light on the dash.

 

my plan is to replace trans fluid, all of it. and get the tranny codes read. after that , i don't know. i'm not optimistic.

 

any thoughts or suggeations?

 

john

[nipper]

Your duty C solenoid has failed. The light is flashing 16 times to tell you it has an error code, but in reality there is no reason to pull the code. Odds are if you think you have TB you have TB. The solenoid has failed bacause its not responding to the signal from the TCU when you put in the FWD fuse.

 

I wouldnt bother changing the fluid independent of changing the solinoid, since it wont help.

 

The trany light comes on to indicate that there is a fault from the last time you drove the car. I wouldnt drive the car in this condition, as the AWD clutches get damaged very quickly in this condition. Been there done that.

 

nipper

[Richard1296]

Well since the transmission was changed about 3K miles ago,

I'd look for a connector that has come unplugged. At least thats

what I would hope for. That or a wire damaged. The code can be

retireved to help diagnose the trouble. 16 blinks is only an attention

getter so you will look for the problem.

Torque Bind is such an ugly term.

 

Richard

[Wayne Boncyk]

John, since the FWD fuse doesn't result in a FWD light on the dash, and the AT light still blinks on startup, it is a certainty that your Duty C solenoid is not operating. It may be that you only have a loose connector to the tranny, so check carefully before you start pulling another extension housing! But you've had enough practice at this for it to be relatively painless now, right?

[johnceggleston]

yeah, painless was exactly the word that was going thru my mind, F *** painless.

 

sligh.t update, the previous post was about what hapesend at 2pm. at 5 pm i got in and started it up, FWD was on and no TB. remove the fuse , TB again! yeah, painless!!

 

so it would seem that i have an intermitten TB problem, or more correctly, an intermitten duty c problem.

 

how do you spell painless, F***!!!!!!!!

 

ps: wayne , do you still have that extention housing i LENT you.!!

 

and i thought i'd been soooooo gooooood lately!!!!

 

John, since the FWD fuse doesn't result in a FWD light on the dash, and the AT light still blinks on startup, it is a certainty that your Duty C solenoid is not operating. It may be that you only have a loose connector to the tranny, so check carefully before you start pulling another extension housing! But you've had enough practice at this for it to be relatively painless now, right?

[Wayne Boncyk]

Hey, John! As a matter of fact I still have the original off of my '96. When I pulled it to work on exactly the problem that you now have, it didn't look like any of the clutch plates had been galled, seized or warped, so I put it away in a box for safe keeping when I put your old one on my tranny. I have since moved from SoCal back to Colorado, but it should still be in one of the boxes that I haven't unpacked in the garage yet.

 

So, if when you pull the one you have on your '96 you find that you need a replacement clutch plate assembly, let me know. It would be a good excuse for me to get off my a** and unpack the rest of the garage, so I'll gladly ship this one out to you for the cost of mailing. You'll have to get a new Duty solenoid, though, 'cause I replaced the one in your extension unit with a new one before I installed it on my OBW.

 

You know, between the two of us we're gonna keep these machines running for a million miles!

[nipper]

If you can use one from a 1997 1/2 or newer. Before then there was a design fault that led to torque bind (seal failure). I do beleive all the housings are interchngable till 99

 

nipper

[idosubaru]

dude that sucks. fluid change won't help his TB at all?

loose connection i'm sure is a long shot? what a PITA this has been for you, hang in there.

[WoodsWagon]

If you get torque bind when it's in AWD, but it goes away when you put in the FWD fuse, that means the clutch pack is OK, right?

 

I get a bit of "skipping" torque bind in our 98 outback, but it switches to full front wheel when you put the fuse in.

 

Fluid looked old, darkish, so I was hoping changing it would save it.

[Wayne Boncyk]

If you get torque bind when it's in AWD, but it goes away when you put in the FWD fuse, that means the clutch pack is OK, right?

 

I get a bit of "skipping" torque bind in our 98 outback, but it switches to full front wheel when you put the fuse in.

 

Fluid looked old, darkish, so I was hoping changing it would save it.

 

Yup! You might be OK with a complete fluid change. At least you know that the Duty C solenoid is able to switch pressure in the clutch pack properly.

[WoodsWagon]

ATF is supposed to be red/pink, not brown like what drained out. The pan holds about 5.5 qts, I put in 6 and it's a bit overfilled. I'm not too concerned, I'm going to drain and refill again when the fluid from the TC and cooler mix in with the fresh stuff. AWD is working better too.

[nipper]

ATF is supposed to be red/pink, not brown like what drained out. The pan holds about 5.5 qts, I put in 6 and it's a bit overfilled. I'm not too concerned, I'm going to drain and refill again when the fluid from the TC and cooler mix in with the fresh stuff. AWD is working better too.

 

that wil do it, but dont be surprised if it just delays it. The flashing light is not a good thing. Its indicitive of TB from a failed or stuck (best case) or failing solenoid.

 

nipper

[otismaxi]

I have a 1996 Legacy GT wagon with the same symptomology: intermittent AT Oil flashing on start up, sometimes transmission "drag" and binding in corners. Othertimes, runs as sweet as ever. My mechanic (maybe ex-mechanic) is pushing for a $3400 rebuilt transmission replacement. What do the masters think? I am but the grasshopper. If you read the ECC, will it say Duty C solenoid? What does a Duty C replacement run, or can I do it (good with tools, scars to prove)? Any GOOD mechanics in Berkeley? Thanks in advance! O

[otismaxi]

And by the by, there's 123K on my 96 Legacy GT wagon with AT. Thanks O

[nipper]

I have a 1996 Legacy GT wagon with the same symptomology: intermittent AT Oil flashing on start up, sometimes transmission "drag" and binding in corners. Othertimes, runs as sweet as ever. My mechanic (maybe ex-mechanic) is pushing for a $3400 rebuilt transmission replacement. What do the masters think? I am but the grasshopper. If you read the ECC, will it say Duty C solenoid? What does a Duty C replacement run, or can I do it (good with tools, scars to prove)? Any GOOD mechanics in Berkeley? Thanks in advance! O

 

for 800-1000 dollars you can get the AWD unit rebuilt at the dealer. This includes a new housing. There is no need for a tranny rebuild if its running fine. Also if you do need a tranny in the future, the awd compnents can be swapped into the replacement.

 

I would just rebuild the awd.

 

nipper

[otismaxi]

for 800-1000 dollars you can get the AWD unit rebuilt at the dealer. This includes a new housing. There is no need for a tranny rebuild if its running fine. Also if you do need a tranny in the future, the awd compnents can be swapped into the replacement.

 

I would just rebuild the awd.

 

nipper

Thanks, Nipper!

[Dangerdave]

hey

 

Just to clarify you guys are refering to a 'flashing' light. If the light comes on for a few seconds at start-up is there any cause for concern?

 

Thanks, Dave

[nipper]

hey

 

Just to clarify you guys are refering to a 'flashing' light. If the light comes on for a few seconds at start-up is there any cause for concern?

 

Thanks, Dave

 

The light coming on at startup is the bulb check. As long as it doesnt flash and goes out in a few seconds your fine. All idiot lights do this to some degree to tell you that they are working.

 

nipper

[otismaxi]

for 800-1000 dollars you can get the AWD unit rebuilt at the dealer. This includes a new housing. There is no need for a tranny rebuild if its running fine. Also if you do need a tranny in the future, the awd compnents can be swapped into the replacement.

 

I would just rebuild the awd.

 

nipper

Nipper Does rebuilding the AWD unit include changing the Duty C? The dealer "advisors" seem unsure. O

[nipper]

Nipper Does rebuilding the AWD unit include changing the Duty C? The dealer "advisors" seem unsure. O

 

Yes it does. Talk to the head mechanic he will tell you. I have the bill someplace i can show you exacly what it involves

 

nipper

[johnceggleston]

i contacted an ebay parts seller about a good used clutch pack off of a bad transmission. i know given the labor to do the swap it's a huge risk, but i thought if i could get it cheap enough and with 2 units to compare i might beable to make an informed decision about how and what causes the problem and whether or not to risk it.

 

anyway the seller responded with "the clutch pack new is only $80 - $90". now i just assumed he was talking about the manual trans. clutch, but i don't have any idea. i wrote back suggesting we were talking about 2 different items but got no response, which surprised me since he says he has 30+ subarus for parts to sell.

 

is it possible that the actual clutch plates in the clutch pack cost less than 100$? if so would new plates and duty c correct the problem in my car.? since i have the at temp light blinking, i know the duty c is bad, i take it the spool valve is pressure driven not electronic. but i guess there is no way to tell what else is going / gone bad in side there.

 

i guess i'm wondering if the dealers install a new extention housing any time the duty c goes bad like they do the cats when the o2 sensor gives the 0420 (?) code.

 

just thinking out loud.

john

 

 

[nipper]

i contacted an ebay parts seller about a good used clutch pack off of a bad transmission. i know given the labor to do the swap it's a huge risk, but i thought if i could get it cheap enough and with 2 units to compare i might beable to make an informed decision about how and what causes the problem and whether or not to risk it.

 

anyway the seller responded with "the clutch pack new is only $80 - $90". now i just assumed he was talking about the manual trans. clutch, but i don't have any idea. i wrote back suggesting we were talking about 2 different items but got no response, which surprised me since he says he has 30+ subarus for parts to sell.

 

is it possible that the actual clutch plates in the clutch pack cost less than 100$? if so would new plates and duty c correct the problem in my car.? since i have the at temp light blinking, i know the duty c is bad, i take it the spool valve is pressure driven not electronic. but i guess there is no way to tell what else is going / gone bad in side there.

 

i guess i'm wondering if the dealers install a new extention housing any time the duty c goes bad like they do the cats when the o2 sensor gives the 0420 (?) code.

 

just thinking out loud.

john

 

 

 

Manuals dont have a clutch pack. There is so much more that needs to be replaced aside from the clutch pack. Its standard parctice it seems to replace the housing, seals, solenoid, clutch plates, clutch discs and other miscalanous parts.

I think somne here did it with all new parts for about 300-400 bucks. If you are older then 1997 1/2 you need a new housing. It was redesigned after that year to correct failed seals.

 

nipper

[otismaxi]

Yes it does. Talk to the head mechanic he will tell you. I have the bill someplace i can show you exacly what it involves

 

nipper

Update: The good news: bad solenoid! Man I would have been torqed if the tranny was replaced and THEN didn't work! Bad news: looking for trouble turned up a bad left front wheel bearing. Still, everything will be fixed for 1/2 the price of a tranny job. Now what to I buy with all that leftover cash? Thanks, nipper. O

[nipper]

Update: The good news: bad solenoid! Man I would have been torqed if the tranny was replaced and THEN didn't work! Bad news: looking for trouble turned up a bad left front wheel bearing. Still, everything will be fixed for 1/2 the price of a tranny job. Now what to I buy with all that leftover cash? Thanks, nipper. O

 

gee i can always use another christmas gift

 

nipper

 

PS glad you got off with just a solenoid. Ignore the light and it can be a lot worse. Also whoever is putting in the solenoid for you KEEP THEM! This is a case where selling you a clutch pack and a solenoid would not have been suspisous, so you have a very honest mechanic.