Totally SCREWED by AAMCO...

[Kilroy]

The following is my ongoing fight with the repair of my transmission at AAMCO. I think most will agree that there is definitely something seriously fishy going on here. I am thinking of telling him to stop all work on the car now and I will pick it up as it is (I think he is going to find a way for the TCU to stop throwing ANY codes). It is a fairly long read, but I have to detail as much as possible. Any feedback you can provide would be appreciated, particularly concerning the TCU code.

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1990 Subaru Legacy AWD Automatic.- 165,000 km.

Vehicle taken to AAMCO at 6512 75 St. Edmonton, AB for transmission solenoid replacement.

Amin Zahalan: AAMCO Owner/Operator

 

 

I brought my car in for a free inspection on Monday, November 13(?) and Bryce (technician) hooked up their scanner and tried to pull trouble codes from the vehicle’s TCU/ECU. I explained to them that I had already pulled the codes and had done extensive research as to the problem with the transmission and that the codes I had pulled concerned the Duty B and C solenoids. There is no repair procedure for the solenoids, they must be replaced. The original quoted estimate for the replacement of the solenoids was ~$300, but Amin was not sure on the solenoid prices and so I left as he said he would look into it and get back to me with a more definite quote once he made some inquiries. I also asked them to include a price on replacing the flexplate, as the transmission was making a faint noise that seemed to suggest that it was cracked. This requires the removal of the transmission as it is mounted on the front of the transmission. Upon questioning, Bryce informed me that he had never worked on a Subaru AWD transmission and that he would like the opportunity to learn. Amin assured me that his senior technician had plenty of experience with them.

 

The following Monday Amin gave me a quote for ~$800 to do the work, so I gave the go ahead. He got back to me a few days later and told me that the transmission would need a complete rebuild. I gave him the go ahead on the rebuild without asking for a definite cost as it was out of the vehicle at that point and would do me no good once put back in. I went to AAMCO to speak with him a few days later (at this point he was waiting for parts) and asked to see the transmission, which was spread out across a bench in the back of the shop. He showed me a ‘worn’ ring that, to my eye (I am a steel fabricator and have worked with steel for over 10 years), looked to have a faint discoloration to it at best where it came into contact with another part within the transmission. I asked him to put an overall definitive price on the rebuild cost. His reply was, “$2200, maybe as high as $2400”. This seemed incredibly steep for a vehicle that I only paid $1700 for, but I figured at that price ($2400) and with a new transmission in it the vehicle should sell for $4000 if I decided that I wanted to recover my costs in the near future. The engine runs incredibly well and the interior is in amazing condition for a 16 year old vehicle.

 

~10 days later I called to see what was going on and Amin told me that the parts were received, but one of the solenoids was incorrect and they had to order another one from overseas. He said that it was in transit at that time and it had been sent regular mail. I asked him why it was not couriered, but he had no answer for that. I waited another week and finally went in to see him personally. He told me that the part had still not arrived. I asked him to call the company that sent the solenoid and ask them to overnight courier another solenoid and then Amin could send back the one in transit once it arrived. He then changed his story and told me that he had been on the phone with them a couple of hours earlier and that they informed him they didn’t have the solenoid in stock and they had to make another one, which was sent that day.

 

On Tueday, December 12 Amin called and informed me that the solenoid had arrived and the Subaru should be ready to go around lunchtime the next day. I had previous plans that I cancelled so that I could pick up the Subaru before I worked at 3PM. I called Amin at 1PM on Wednesday to find out how things where going and he said that they had just taken the car for a road test and he would get back to me by 1:30PM as this was the latest I could leave to pick up the car and still be on time for work. At 1:50PM he called and said that everything was working fine in the transmission and it shifted well, but there was a noise from the passenger side halfshaft. He said he could get a rebuilt halfshaft from NAPA for $135 and replace it. When I dropped the car off at AAMCO there was no noise coming from anywhere other than the flexplate (that noise turned out to be a bad bearing located next to the flexplate) and the car ran and handled perfectly. I asked him what the total cost was at that point for the transmission repair and it was just under $3000. I then asked him about his quote for a maximum of $2400, which he denied saying. He stated that he had quoted me $2600 and then the extra cost of the solenoid was added to that.

 

I told him not to touch the car anymore and that I would repair/replace the halfshaft myself if there was a problem with it. His reply was “So you want me to put it back together?” He wasn’t given permission to take it apart in the first place and I speculate as to whether it really was apart at that point. This is a technique by people who own repair shops to get a person to go ahead with work as the owner of the vehicle would typically think ‘oh well, it’s apart now and we may was well get it repaired’.

 

It is now 1PM Thursday, December 14. All phone calls after this point have been recorded and are available for review.

 

I just called Amin again and requested a total with taxes: $3157.34

I also inquired as to where he obtained the solenoid and he couldn’t give me a definite answer, he stated that he contacted Subaru in Edmonton (he wasn’t sure which Subaru as there are 2 of them) and somebody got in touch with somebody else and they got in touch with someone overseas who sent it. I asked him for information on where he got the solenoid and he said he had no contact address or tracking number or any way to get in touch with the people who had sent it, although he had told me when I was last at AAMCO that he had just gotten off the phone with them several hours earlier (see top of page). I called both of the Subaru parts departments in Edmonton and neither of them has been in touch with anyone from AAMCO concerning a solenoid (although Doug at Subaru City recalled speaking with somebody about a week and a half ago about one, it was me he spoke with) and both of the Parts Managers agree that Subaru would not make up a solenoid upon request. I suggested to Doug that perhaps Amin has found another transmission via a wrecking yard and installed it in my vehicle and he agreed that would be the best possible explanation. The vehicle is currently sitting at AAMCO and I will not be paying a penny on the costs until I find out how it was repaired.

 

December 18, 1PM: I just call NAPA and the price on the rebuilt halfshaft is $115.

 

December 21, 1:30PM: I went to AAMCO to test drive the car and look at the ‘worn’ parts that they had replaced. Amin showed me the solenoids that they swapped out, but he still won’t give me an answer as to where they got the replacement solenoids. He refused to allow me to test drive the vehicle until I paid for the repairs, so I told him that I would contact ADVIC and have a mediator handle this. He stated that it was company policy to have someone pay for the current charges before letting anybody drive their vehicle as they may take off with it and not return. I had already told him that he could have sit right next to me and I would leave the keys to my Acura RL which was worth considerably more than the Subaru. He relented after I mentioned ADVIC and had one foot out the door. He called his senior technician from the garage and had him go with me.

Upon starting the vehicle, I immediately noticed that it was running considerably rougher than when I brought it to AAMCO. The technician stated that it was because the car was still cold, but the car sat for 6 weeks at considerably colder temperatures before I brought it to AAMCO and it started and ran perfectly at that point. I took it out on the road and noticed a noise in the transmission, directly below the shifter. The technician stated that there were new parts in the transmission that needed time to wear in, that the noise could be coming from anything. My view on this is that if you purchase a brand new vehicle with a brand new transmission, it won’t make any suspicious noises and all of the parts are brand new and need time to break in. I took his statement with a grain of salt and he added that if there is any troubles with the transmission for the next year or 20,000km that I can bring it back for repair. I would prefer it to leave AAMCO repaired properly and not have to bring it back. The transmission seemed to shift properly otherwise, so I brought it back to AAMCO. I mentioned the noise to Amin and told him that I would give it some time to break in, but if the noise continued that I would be bringing it back.

I paid for the work done and told Amin that I would come back later that evening with somebody to pick up the Subaru. There was no noise coming from either halfshaft, so I am wondering why Amin told me previously that there was.

That evening I came back at 8:30 to pick it up and as soon as I started the car I noticed the ‘POWER’ light flashing which indicated that there is an error code in the TCU. I turned off the car and locked it up. I wrote Amin a note about the flashing ‘POWER’ light askin him to check it out as it is directly related to the transmission repair and should not be flashing if everything is correctly repaired. I slipped the key and note into the key drop slot.

 

December 22: I called Amin at 12:05PM and asked him if he had checked into it. He said that he currently had some guys looking at it and it was probably a wiring problem. I stated that the codes that the TCU threw before the repair were accurate and diagnosed that the solenoids needed to be repaired, so there was no reason to suspect that it would be incorrectly throwing a code now. He replied that the solenoids had been replaced and there should be no code or problem and that the ‘AAMCO repair hotline’ told him it must be something wrong with the wiring. He said they are currently testing the wiring for the correct loads.

[The Dude]

.... Upon questioning, Bryce informed me that he had never worked on a Subaru AWD transmission and that he would like the opportunity to learn.

 

 

Maybe that statement from Bryce was sign from heaven that you should've gotten back in your car and driven off like a bat out of hell. Why even ask the question if you're going to let some inexperienced wannabe Suby tech "learn" on your car? Your situation is a big stinky ankle-high pile of doggy poop, but you kinda stepped in it.

 

That aside, IF they installed used parts and represented them as new, that may very well be fraud. That could give you an egde. This thing has a very, very bad feel. You probably need an attorney. Never authorize work without a WRITTEN estimate. Always check out a shop thorougly BEFORE taking your car there for service. Is there a BBB in Canada? How did this business check out with the BBB? I feel for you, but you need to take a much more proactive approach when dealing with repair shops. BTW, are you being charged for "storage fees". It might pay to find out.

[porcupine73]

Wow I didn't read the whole story, but yah, I stopped at amco one time and did not like the experience at all so I left. Maybe a salvage yard tranny would be the way to go.

[msmithmmx]

No, My God. Sounds like a bunch of techs may have gotten in over their head with the sub's transmission. What is done is done. Next step, Call corporate and open a problem ticket. Give the shop 3 times to fix it (no more cost to you). If its not to your linking its time for court.

[Wayne Boncyk]

Hmmm -- I don't know what recourse you have in Canada, but in most states here in the US you could bring a variety of legal remedies to bear on them. Perhaps you can get in touch with AAMCO Canada, instead of only dealing with this single franchise shop. The corporate office might not take too kindly to the spectre of legal action that you might pursue.

 

Nasty - to bring a perfectly functional vehicle in for service, only to have them effectively disable the vehicle - one could conclude that in the process of "learning," they found a way for you to pay for their lessons.

 

I'd nail them using every legal recourse, not limited to informing any Business organizations (such as Better Business Bureau, if they exist in Canada), and perhaps taking it to a local media representative. There are investigative reporters on some TV station staffs here in the US who'd love to bring something like this to wider public scrutiny.

 

Good Luck!

[Kilroy]

Hmmm -- I don't know what recourse you have in Canada, but in most states here in the US you could bring a variety of legal remedies to bear on them. Perhaps you can get in touch with AAMCO Canada, instead of only dealing with this single franchise shop. The corporate office might not take too kindly to the spectre of legal action that you might pursue.

 

Nasty - to bring a perfectly functional vehicle in for service, only to have them effectively disable the vehicle - one could conclude that in the process of "learning," they found a way for you to pay for their lessons.

 

I'd nail them using every legal recourse, not limited to informing any Business organizations (such as Better Business Bureau, if they exist in Canada), and perhaps taking it to a local media representative. There are investigative reporters on some TV station staffs here in the US who'd love to bring something like this to wider public scrutiny.

 

Good Luck!

 

I checked with the BBB and they are not a member. I also shot off this letter to a local news station 'Troubleshooter' reporter who helps people in this situation, but that was over a week ago and no reply. I also contacted AMVIC and forwarded them this letter as well as my recorded conversations, I was told that if they think there is a reason for them to get involved that I would have some paperwork in the mail last Monday or Tuesday that I would need to fill out and get back to them. No paperwork arrived.

[Wayne Boncyk]

I checked with the BBB and they are not a member. I also shot off this letter to a local news station 'Troubleshooter' reporter who helps people in this situation, but that was over a week ago and no reply. I also contacted AMVIC and forwarded them this letter as well as my recorded conversations, I was told that if they think there is a reason for them to get involved that I would have some paperwork in the mail last Monday or Tuesday that I would need to fill out and get back to them. No paperwork arrived.

Strange - I just went to the AMVIC website and the word you got from them seems to be in contradiction to what they indicate they'll do: "Q. I think the repairs done on my car were not necessary and/or unsatisfactory. What can I do?

• Talk to the manager and/or the business owner.
  
• If that fails, call us back and we will contact the business to see if we can help you resolve the matter."

So it appears that either they exist more for the protection of the business than the consumer, or they think you haven't adequately tried to solve the problem with the business owner. What a scam - I'm surprised to see the Provincial government hand over responsibility for consumer protection to an organization comprised of representatives from the very businesses they are asked to watchdog. YUK! I would not have expected this from a Canadian Province.

 

Again I say, Good Luck. Perhaps there is just a delay in responding to your complaint because of the holidays.

 

 

[nipper]

I am sorry to say this, but yes you are screwed by AAMCCO. AAMCO is not a chain, but a Franchise. Here in NY AAMCO has had many problems, and their advertising has gone way down.

I have never ever heard of a good thing coming out of AAMCO. You can try AAMCO main office, but i really don't think they care. http://www.aamco.com/main/webmaster/contact_aamcoservices.html

http://www.aamcotransmissions.com/index.html

On thier website it advertises under franchise opportunites

"full one week Rebuilding schools". There are over 200 differnt transmissions on the road leanr them all in one week. Most technical schools its 6 months to get a certificate in mechanics, and the better ones its 2 years of college.

 

The price range is fair from what ive seen posted here, but thats from a reputable shop. Most shops now pull out the tranny, swap in a tranny from a rebuilder, and your done. Not a lot want to deal with the mess of rebuilding them, themselves. Once you get into a tranny, if there are other things wrong with it (hard parts) you start getting an angry customer when you have to explain things.

The having to order a solenoid from overseas is bull (unless Indiana or New Jersey is overseas).

I don't know what recourse you have in Canada. you aren't the first person to complain about AAMCO in Canada (or north america for that matter)

 

http://www.geocities.com/aamco_ripoff/page02.html

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/aamco.htm

 

 

You may have to pay the bill to rescue the car. Pay it by credit card and immediatly dispute the charge. Take the car to another mechanic and let him look it over and get a written estimat on whats wrong, and then you can use this in court.

Make notes on converstaions with people and keep a log with date time name and what was discussed. Write everyone you can think of, including (what we call) ditrict attorneys, consumer baords, local elected officials.

I hope this helps, but i can see it going to court, and i am sorry you had to go through this.

 

nipper

[86ruguy]

TAKE LEGAL ACTION!!!!!!!!!!!just my .02

[HATCHY]

Aamco Screwed My Friend As Well, They Rebuilt His Tranny, And Within 4 Weeks It It Was Leaking Fluid, And The Seals Were Used

[Kilroy]

I am sorry to say this, but yes you are screwed by AAMCCO. AAMCO is not a chain, but a Franchise. Here in NY AAMCO has had many problems, and their advertising has gone way down.

I have never ever heard of a good thing coming out of AAMCO. You can try AAMCO main office, but i really don't think they care. http://www.aamco.com/main/webmaster/contact_aamcoservices.html

http://www.aamcotransmissions.com/index.html

On thier website it advertises under franchise opportunites

"full one week Rebuilding schools". There are over 200 differnt transmissions on the road leanr them all in one week. Most technical schools its 6 months to get a certificate in mechanics, and the better ones its 2 years of college.

 

The price range is fair from what ive seen posted here, but thats from a reputable shop. Most shops now pull out the tranny, swap in a tranny from a rebuilder, and your done. Not a lot want to deal with the mess of rebuilding them, themselves. Once you get into a tranny, if there are other things wrong with it (hard parts) you start getting an angry customer when you have to explain things.

The having to order a solenoid from overseas is bull (unless Indiana or New Jersey is overseas).

I don't know what recourse you have in Canada. you aren't the first person to complain about AAMCO in Canada (or north america for that matter)

 

http://www.geocities.com/aamco_ripoff/page02.html

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/aamco.htm

 

 

You may have to pay the bill to rescue the car. Pay it by credit card and immediatly dispute the charge. Take the car to another mechanic and let him look it over and get a written estimat on whats wrong, and then you can use this in court.

Make notes on converstaions with people and keep a log with date time name and what was discussed. Write everyone you can think of, including (what we call) ditrict attorneys, consumer baords, local elected officials.

I hope this helps, but i can see it going to court, and i am sorry you had to go through this.

 

nipper

 

Not only did I take notes, I recorded every conversation we had after he denied that he verbally quoted me "$2200-$2400'. I did pay with CC and will be reversing the charges if they attempt to charge me further.

 

As for them 'testing the wiring', there is one fatal flaw in their thinking. They went by the codes that the TCU was providing (duty b and c solenoid) when I first took my car to the shop and agreed that the solenoids needed to be replaced. Now that they have done the repair and the TCU is still throwing the same code, they claim that there must be a wiring problem. The problem here is that they agreed that the initial codes were correct, so anything that is 'incorrect' now must be due to something they have done since the repair. I'm just waiting for them to try and charge me for tracking down a faulty wire now.

[Gene J]

AAMCO is the worst. However the economics even at better places is that if they rebuild the transmission it will not come back for warranty work. For around 185 dollars in parts for common RWD trannys the rest is labor. All trans problems can be cured by a rebuild.

There is no skill to this.

 

As always, ask for references for shops near where you live.

 

Here is a an example. My daughters 99 Cougar spit up trans fluid. The shop had it for 3 days and needed 2200 dollars to repair it because it was "all burned up". I stopped by to look at it and it was still sitting where we had parked it. I mean really.... We drove it there. I told him at that price we would just drive it until it went out. He started screaming "Then you will crack the case and it will cost you 4500!".

 

The dealer had a service bulletin on the problem and it cost 180. `

[nipper]

AAMCO is the worst. However the economics even at better places is that if they rebuild the transmission it will not come back for warranty work. For around 185 dollars in parts for common RWD trannys the rest is labor. All trans problems can be cured by a rebuild.

There is no skill to this.

`

 

But not all trannies need a rebuild to fix them, and i really do take offense that there is no skill required to rebuild a tranny (being one who does it).

It may take no skill to throw parts together, but it does take skill to do it right.

 

nipper

[ericem]

wow, and i was about to go to AAMCO, and get my tranny fixed, but instead i got screwed by a private tranny shop for $3000, for now on, the only place i take my subaru to is my dealer, and thats all, i dont care anymore.

[nipper]

Transmission shops are the only place i fear to go. If i ever need a transmission, i go to a place that has one day service (they have the trannies rebuilt by a vendor) or get a used one. This is the last part of the automotive industry that is still really shady. The first thing you should do when the car is suspected of a transmission problem is your regular mechanic, and not a transmission shop. Let him rule out everything else first and give you a dignoses. Same with the dealer. Before you set foot in a tranny shop, call the BBB first and check out thier credentials.

 

 

nipper

[Gene J]

But not all trannies need a rebuild to fix them, and i really do take offense that there is no skill required to rebuild a tranny (being one who does it).

It may take no skill to throw parts together, but it does take skill to do it right.

 

nipper

I am sorry you misunderstood my point. If any and all problems can be cured by a rebuild then there is no skill used for diagnosis. And today many of the problems are computer problems and the transmissions are mechanically sound.

 

The dealer we took my daughter's to remembered the problem and looked up the TSB. It was repaired inexpensively.

[nipper]

I am sorry you misunderstood my point. If any and all problems can be cured by a rebuild then there is no skill used for diagnosis. And today many of the problems are computer problems and the transmissions are mechanically sound.

 

The dealer we took my daughter's to remembered the problem and looked up the TSB. It was repaired inexpensively.

 

OK, so ill take the lump of coal out of your car

 

nipper

[jon38iowa]

I went to AAMOCO (Oldsmoble) once and only once! What a joke; They charged me top dollar for simple work ( engine mounts), moreover, they overfilled my transmission and substantantialy! When I returned to ask them to drain the excess, I was talked to as if a 15 year old. There reply was," oh that wouldn't hurt anything." Funny, GM thinks differently. No my family and I will never go to another AAmco again.

You have my empathy. I agree with someone above, unless it is almost free of charge work, no one is going to learn on my cars.

[msmithmmx]

All of this transmission talk is making think about picking up a spare.

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SUBARU-LEGACY-FORESTER-IMPREZA-TRANSMISSION-4WD-EJ25_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33727QQihZ004QQitemZ140065446234QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

[porcupine73]

picking up a spare

Looks like you get the starter with that one too. Say you bought an engine off ebay recently too right? How did you get it? Did the truck have a liftgate or something? Or maybe it's not super heavy?

[johnceggleston]

Looks like you get the starter with that one too. Say you bought an engine off ebay recently too right? How did you get it? Did the truck have a liftgate or something? Or maybe it's not super heavy?

residential delivery is 50$ extra because they have to send a lift gate.

 

business delivery is standard since they recieve shipments all the time the assumption is that they have the means to unload.

 

it may be possible to pick up your delivery from the trucking company depot. that may cut the shipping as well.

 

then you have to load into your vehicle. 2 guys can lift and carry a suby a/t ok. i wouldn't want to have to throw it into a dumpster, but putting it into an outback or pickup is no problem.

 

regarding jdm transmissions, re-read nippers posts in this thread..

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showpost.php?p=555115&postcount=5

[OB99W]

[...]Before you set foot in a tranny shop, call the BBB first and check out thier credentials.

Nipper, I respect your knowledge of automotive engineering, diagnosis and repair, but you might want to reconsider your endorsement of the BBB. Rather than explain my experiences with them (both as a customer and a business owner), I'll let these links speak to some of the issues:

http://www.thebluesmokeband.com/bbb.php

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff1343.htm

http://esotriv.blogspot.com/2006/09/bbb-joke-or-what.html

[nipper]

Nipper, I respect your knowledge of automotive engineering, diagnosis and repair, but you might want to reconsider your endorsement of the BBB. Rather than explain my experiences with them (both as a customer and a business owner), I'll let these links speak to some of the issues:

http://www.thebluesmokeband.com/bbb.php

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff1343.htm

 

Sorry i wasnt endorsing them, just trying to give people a place to look.

Another possability is calling your local AAA and asking them for a shop recomendation.

 

Seems each BBB is only as good as that states consumers laws.

 

nipper

[msmithmmx]

residential delivery is 50$ extra because they have to send a lift gate.

 

business delivery is standard since they recieve shipments all the time the assumption is that they have the means to unload.

 

it may be possible to pick up your delivery from the trucking company depot. that may cut the shipping as well.

 

then you have to load into your vehicle. 2 guys can lift and carry a suby a/t ok. i wouldn't want to have to throw it into a dumpster, but putting it into an outback or pickup is no problem.

 

regarding jdm transmissions, re-read nippers posts in this thread..

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showpost.php?p=555115&postcount=5

 

Are you serial, its not a straight swap on the JDM transmission

[jon38iowa]

Nipper, I respect your knowledge of automotive engineering, diagnosis and repair, but you might want to reconsider your endorsement of the BBB. Rather than explain my experiences with them (both as a customer and a business owner), I'll let these links speak to some of the issues:

http://www.thebluesmokeband.com/bbb.php

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff1343.htm

http://esotriv.blogspot.com/2006/09/bbb-joke-or-what.html

Maybe my is experience is unique, but the BBB Helped me recover $ 200.00 after other atempts failed.