Infinitrium Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 I'm considering buying an 87 GL wagon to replace my 88 Corolla wagon (you can see why in the pics) and my 93 Protege which needs a transmission. I was browsing a local buy&sell type website and came across an ad for an 87 GL wagon. The guy'll let it go for $300 bucks. You can take a look at the little webpage the owner made for it http://www.olivesbrain.gotdns.com/subaru/index.html What do you think? Are these cars problem prone? How reliable are they? Fuel efficient? Do these engines sound like old VW engines? Haven't heard a Subaru engine up close for 15 years. Someone told me that the halfshafts on the GL are equal length, you could swap them left to right. Is that correct? This car has been for sale for a while, which is to my advantage because I won't have the money to buy it anyway for another few weeks. I suppose most people don't want something almost 20 years old. Same with the 88 Corolla wagon, it was for sale for a long time, we're talking a few months, before I came along and bought it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SakoTGrimes Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 I'm considering buying an 87 GL wagon to replace my 88 Corolla wagon (you can see why in the pics) and my 93 Protege which needs a transmission. I was browsing a local buy&sell type website and came across an ad for an 87 GL wagon. The guy'll let it go for $300 bucks. You can take a look at the little webpage the owner made for it What do you think? Are these cars problem prone? Yes and No. Stupid stuff like power windows break but the engines go forever. How reliable are they? Very. Fuel efficient? 30+mpg if it's maintained and driven right. Do these engines sound like old VW engines? No. Haven't heard a Subaru engine up close for 15 years. Someone told me that the halfshafts on the GL are equal length, you could swap them left to right. Is that correct? Yep. This car has been for sale for a while, which is to my advantage because I won't have the money to buy it anyway for another few weeks. I suppose most people don't want something almost 20 years old. Same with the 88 Corolla wagon, it was for sale for a long time, we're talking a few months, before I came along and bought it. I say keep the Toyota and ditch the Mazda. Subaru's will have the same lack of power and rust problems as your Toyota, but just like your Toyota, they will keep going and going and going. 372K is nothin'. The 294K the Soob has is less than nothing, especially since that's in kilos. Just make sure you get both (2) timing belts changed as soon as you can, it sucks when they break, although it won't destroy the engine. Things like alternators and distributor coils are easy as cake to change because everything is on TOP of the engine instead of under a bunch of stuff. I just looked at the pics and saw you have manual windows, manual locks, and manual gears aka the recipe for reliability. I'm getting jealous! Go for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitrium Posted January 6, 2007 Author Share Posted January 6, 2007 Keep the Toyota you say? LOL, I haven't told you what's wrong with it yet, and now I shall. It needs: 3 struts, LF is the worst, 2 rear ones are bad too Front exhaust pipe, integral flex pipe is cracked open Lots of body work, I think it's got more fiberglass than steel now Rear brakes Read defroster doesn't work Rear wiper doesn't work Cigarette lighter doesn't work. Can't charge my phone or use my satelite radio Temp gauge doesn't work Heat control is broke and stuck on full heat Vent control doesn't work, it's always blowing at my eyes and the windshield Tie rod or balljoint or something on RF wheel Starter grinds on flywheel sometimes Fuel tank is leaky Carb acts up every now and then Sticky choke I know I've forgot a few things. It's got so much wrong with it I've lost track. Major PITA to put gas in the tank, you have to pump it realll slow or it'll gush back at you, oh man you don't know how annoying that is especially in freezing temperatures. It gets great fuel mileage, surprisingly peppy and will outrun my Bro's 96 Sunfire...down a hill. The ol' 1.6 in the wagon was rated for 90hp, 95ft/lbs, I think the 1.8 FI engine in the GL wagon was about the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SakoTGrimes Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 Front exhaust pipe, integral flex pipe is cracked open <- 20 HP gain! Lots of body work, I think it's got more fiberglass than steel now <- Now it's lighter! Better acceleration, braking and cornering! Rear brakes <- You won't need them as much with all that high speed braking you'll be doing with your new lightweight high perf DIY carbon fiber body panels! Read defroster doesn't work <- Your heat's stuck on full blast though right? Rear wiper doesn't work <- For sissies! Cigarette lighter doesn't work. <- $40 power inverter will solve that. Hooks straight to the battery, no foolish stock wiring to deal with. Heat control is broke and stuck on full heat <- Nice and warm! Fuel tank is leaky <- Gas is just dead weight anyway! Carb acts up every now and then <- Weberize! Sticky choke <- Choke schmoke! Rip it out! quote] Seriously though, it does sound like a PITA. For you can't go wrong for $300 if the Soob's in as good a shape as it looks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitrium Posted January 6, 2007 Author Share Posted January 6, 2007 Hey, get this. I just went and checked my credit card balance, and I've just been given a credit limit increase to $1300, so that means I could buy the wagon tomorrow if I wanted! That was a pleasant, unexpected surprise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 If it's SPFI (should be), then that's not a horrible deal, but I've seen as-good/better deals on comparable 4WD's. If you want good mileage (32 - 35 or so) and can live without the 4WD, then it's not a bad deal. Doesn't look too rusty, and the door panels are easy to replace. You should know that these require timing belts about every 60,000 miles, but the engine is non-interferance so if it breaks it won't damage anything. Just replace and go. They generally leak a bit of oil, and the exhuast's can be loud if they have holes which isn't uncommon even in non-rusty states. The engine's are very reliable (with the exception of the timing belts, and head gaskets if you overheat them), and will easily go 200,000 miles+ before needing a head gasket or something else minor. The block's themselves are easily good for 300,000+. Transmissions are even better - no worries for 500,000 or so. Subaru still uses the same design - hasn't really changed it in 20 years. My sedan (86) for example sat for about 3 years in a yard before I got it. $100 and I drove it home. It had 208,000, and now has 230,000. I have about $600 into it total - including a rebuilt Weber ($190). I sugest you get it, replace all the belts (including timing) and hoses. Gives you a chance to check out the water pump, t-belt tensioners, main and cam seals. The complete t-belt set goes for about $60 on ebay...Biggest problems I've had with 20 year old subarus BY FAR is old belts and hoses - any belt or small hose failure will quickly result in an overheat, and likely that will do in the head gaskets rather quickly when they are that old. Basically if you care for the cooling system, and the timing belts these are pretty bulletproof cars. Especially the SPFI version as in your ad there. I should also note that should you experience a HG failure, it's not too big of a job to replace them. Cost is about $40 for both, and it takes about a day as long as you don't need to resurface the heads. They can be done without pulling the engine fairly easily. And you are correct about the axles - they are the same right to left. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitrium Posted January 6, 2007 Author Share Posted January 6, 2007 Yup, it's SPFI. I was up to have a quick look at it today. I popped the hood (door was unlocked) took a quick look and closed it back up. I could tell from looking that the catalytic converter is new, so I assume the owner is truthful when he said it's got a new exhaust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 actually, 84 hp, and like 104 ft-lbs of torque. get the soob. sell the other cars. these cars are made out of legos, easy to fix, easy to tear apart, easy to rebuild. minor differences between some mecahnical parts, but most parts are interchangeable as long as the headlights look the same as your car.. get it, get it, get it. You should be able to talk the guy down to something easy on the price, if it has been sitting there for a while. It isnt 4wd, which is what would make it REALLY desirable.. and on the up side, it isnt that difficult to MAKE it a four wheel drive, should you want it in the future. The 2wd 5 speed is really the ultimate in fuel economy though.. has less to spin around than any other model (Auto, and 4wd both have heavier drivelines.. the 4wd auto naturally spins the most weight around..) good luck, praise the lord and pass the plastic purchase power! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heartless Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 i say go for it as well. have an '89 5 speed/front whl drive that regularly gets 32-34 mpg - and thats with me driving "like a maniac" according to the other half! (he drives like an old grandpaw!) my wagon has 244,000 miles, or the equivilent of 392,679 kilometers on the clock. (and that number was achieved at this site:http://www.onlineconversion.com ) so at 294,000 Km, that little wagon is still a youngster. overall it looks to be in decent shape. places to look for trouble (rust) - rear wheel wells, just behind the rear wheel wells, bottom rear of the front fenders...there are lots of others, but these are the 3 worst spots. Surface rust is not a big deal if caught early and taken care of, but watch out for the rust-thru! Ooo, just noticed he says something about "patch work on the floor"...would be interesting to see just how bad those are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 actually, 84 hp, and like 104 ft-lbs of torque. Try 90HP and 110 ft-lb of torque with the SPFI (that's mostly in the cams though, and probably not so much in fuel delivery) Go for it. $300 is not bad at all for a car like that. There have been better deals of course, but those don't come by that often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reveeen Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 $300 is a little "rich" for that car, I have it's twin here in Moncton that I paid $100 for 6 years ago up in Ontario (if you do buy it I will be parting out that one in the spring). Rust areas to be concerned with: Rear wheel area: you will be buying replacement panels Rockers: again replacement panels Fenders ahead of the doors (lower) Door bottoms Hood rear floors The rad will be in tough shape If the motor ticks/is "ticky" likely a oil pump re-seal is in your near future No one here wants these cars, you can dictate your own price, I just bought a '92 Loyale in NS for $80 and will be stripping my DL to fix that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgd73 Posted January 6, 2007 Share Posted January 6, 2007 87's Forever. :banana: (especially the carbed). just do it. I didn't see anywhere inh the posts about carbed or spfi, 4wd (and type)or 2wd. They are all good and simple. junked soobs everywhere to keep it going. St. John isn't all that far from me.. seems to have held onto a decent looking body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Try 90HP and 110 ft-lb of torque with the SPFI (that's mostly in the cams though, and probably not so much in fuel delivery) Go for it. $300 is not bad at all for a car like that. There have been better deals of course, but those don't come by that often. That was a cam change that was NOT concurrent with the SPFI, from what i understood... I may well be wrong, but I *was* virtually positive that I had discovered my car (87, NA, spfi) was only rated for 84 hp like the older ones.. and that the 90 only came up with a cam change (?) in about 89 (again, ?) Anyhow, i was gonna say 90 and 110, but i wasnt certain on the torque # and thought the 90 was wrong. So I said what I said to be on the conservative (and a little easier to believe) side. How sure are you that all SPFI were 90/110? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sonicfrog Posted January 7, 2007 Share Posted January 7, 2007 Two words -- Buy It! PS. I have had a few Subies, been to many a junk yard, and I gotta say - Man, those interiors seem to hold up well! When I was a teen, my parents bought a 1982 Datsun/Nissan Maxima. It was a fun car to drive. But in the last fifteen years of J-Yard scrounging I have not seen one with interiors seats especially, that haven't dissintegrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitrium Posted January 8, 2007 Author Share Posted January 8, 2007 Well, I was up to look at it yesterday. I don't know if the driver's seat just doesn't go back very far but man, I had hardly any room at all behind the wheel. It might need a battery, the guy said he had to boost it earlier in the day. I took it around the block, it's not insured or inspected right now. The engine seems to hesitate, and I thought I heard some faint ticking. Clutch seems alright, but it felt like the clutch pedal doesn't travel very far? I noticed the gearshift is really stiff, I mean it was hard to pull. I heard some clicking from the CV joints when I turned a corner. Heater fan doesn't work and the rear wiper doesn't work. It definetely does need brake work, the brake pedal is soft but it was locking one of the front tires on dirt. I didn't get to test the suspension or the hill holder, but the guy tells me the hill holder works fine. The body work it needs is along the left side rocker panel and floor seam, but it's not all that bad. Hmm, I don't know, if I didn't have 2 cars already I'd do it for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Eff the 'Yota. the soob in question cant look any worse than it does, and it will certainly run better. Granted, I own and drive an NA, and this is a turbo.. turbos are more complex machines, so they have more possible ways they can break down.. but still. its a subaru. did you know that subaru spelled backwards is U R A BUS? thats alot better than.... a yotot. yah. Thats rational thinking. Im sure i twisted your arm on that one allright I am leaving the forum for the night now, before i say anything stupider :-p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 That was a cam change that was NOT concurrent with the SPFI, from what i understood... I may well be wrong, but I *was* virtually positive that I had discovered my car (87, NA, spfi) was only rated for 84 hp like the older ones.. and that the 90 only came up with a cam change (?) in about 89 (again, ?) Anyhow, i was gonna say 90 and 110, but i wasnt certain on the torque # and thought the 90 was wrong. So I said what I said to be on the conservative (and a little easier to believe) side. How sure are you that all SPFI were 90/110? 100% The 86 FSM shows those ratings. As well as the SPFI cam is different still from the Carb cam. 88 FSM shows the same cams as in the 86 SPFI. Since in 88 there's no carb anymore, its moot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 why does the partial '89 FSM that I have on my computer say that the output of all mode varieties other than turbo say 84 horsepower then?? it also lists the maximum torque as 137 ft-lbs?!??!?! turbo spec is 115/181 hp/ft-lb.. thats under 4-door... and under wagon, it lists hp/torque as 90/137... okay re statement after thorough re reading. first the sedan FWD 84 hp, 137 ft-lb 4wd, 90 hp, 137 ft-lb now wagons... FWD & 4WD 90 hp, 137 ft-lb. All turbo varieties the same at 115/181. what gives??? this is from an 89 service manual that only mentions FI motors, so its not a carb vs FI thing in my interpretation of the book.. was the 84 in one chart a typo?? all peak numbers were reached at the same RPMS, 5200 and 2700.. I dunno, im not trying to pick a fight or anything. I just got to wondering how I acquired that particular misconception and figured I would read the only thing I had at my disposal to check for guidance.. and I immediately saw how i got that misconception. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Sounds like a typo to me. It's not unheard of. All the SPFI info I've seen puts them at 90. Plus it makes no sense that it would have the same torque rating. Information is conflicting - the stuff here in the board shows 90 HP, 101 torque. The turbo's are the 137 torque.... but who really knows. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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