Gloyale Posted January 10, 2007 Share Posted January 10, 2007 After talking forever about using an adapter plate to swap an EJ into an EA, I came up with a new idea. On automatics the bellhousing is bolted to the front of the differential. I wonder if an EJ bellhousing could be bolted onto an EA automatic.? The EA82 automatic is an early "fulltime" 4EAT. Basically the same as the EJ version. are the bellhousings interchangable? That would eliminate the need for the 1/2 inch adapter plate. I'd need to use the EJ torqueconverter to engage the starter. The torque converters would need too be cross compatible to as far as the input shaft engagement. Anyone got experience with this or tranny's the could measure to compare Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forkspear Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 A while back I read a post about putting a legacy 4eat in an ea82 car. They said the bellhousing interchanged. Im sure the torque converters are the same too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstaru Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 but then you still have an automatic,and when you realize after driving that it is a slushbox, you will wish that you just went the other way. in other words,the auto trannies that come in subies are not very good gearboxes.and they are not worth the trouble to try an switch around like you would a chevy bellhousing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 but then you still have an automatic,and when you realize after driving that it is a slushbox, you will wish that you just went the other way.in other words,the auto trannies that come in subies are not very good gearboxes.and they are not worth the trouble to try an switch around like you would a chevy bellhousing. The 3AT is crap, yes. Though the 4EAT tranny isn't half bad. An automatic still wouldn't be my choice, but its his choice. Its not constructive to tell people what they're doing is not worth the trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 But the 4EAT is electronic, and it's not worth the wireing dilemma putting it into a 3AT car. If the car already had the 4EAT then it might be alright, but the question then becomes a matter of the electronic controls being the same. It's quite possible they were on early legacies, but there's a point in production at which that's sure to change - at the least 96 when ODBII came into effect it changed.... possibly before that time as well. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 But the 4EAT is electronic, and it's not worth the wireing dilemma putting it into a 3AT car. If the car already had the 4EAT then it might be alright, but the question then becomes a matter of the electronic controls being the same. It's quite possible they were on early legacies, but there's a point in production at which that's sure to change - at the least 96 when ODBII came into effect it changed.... possibly before that time as well. GD He's already got a 4EAT and wants to swap on the EJ bell housing so he can mount an EJ without an adapter. Seems to me that's the best option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monstaru Posted January 11, 2007 Share Posted January 11, 2007 oh, i'm sorry.i thought posting in a public forum and asking for experrience was asking for an opinion.next time i'll not give my experrience with the trouble of doing something that is not constructive in and of itself.the 3 spd speaks for itself.the 4eat is prone to sensor issues when not hooked up to it's own harness(experience here being putting an auto tranny into a manual car and butchering the harness in the process of it).if i wishedd to bash his opinion,i would have.constructive is subjective here.to me , it is not constructive to me to take away from his post like you have drawn me out to do.but am personally getting tired of self-appointedd moderators. i guess the new answeer for everrything is to just say,i dunno,why don't you try it.now how constructive is that? sorry gloyale. The 3AT is crap, yes. Though the 4EAT tranny isn't half bad. An automatic still wouldn't be my choice, but its his choice. Its not constructive to tell people what they're doing is not worth the trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 11, 2007 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 The tranny in the car right now is a 4EAT. Almost excactly the same as the tranny in a 90-94 legacy. Sound like the bellhousings are interchangeable. I am puzzled as to whether they use the same Torque Converters though. Wouldn't the EJ torque converter need to have a slightly larger ring gear on it for the starter to engage? Does anyone know if the starters themselves are the same EA vs. EJ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 11, 2007 Author Share Posted January 11, 2007 But the 4EAT is electronic, and it's not worth the wireing dilemma putting it into a 3AT car. If the car already had the 4EAT then it might be alright, but the question then becomes a matter of the electronic controls being the same. GD Less of a wiring dilemma than the engine swap. That is a moot point aswell becasuse I am not talkin about the 3AT. And if you read my first post you'd see I'm talking about just changing bell housings not whole tranny so TCU/controls/sensors/ would not even be an issue as they stay stock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Does anyone know if the starters themselves are the same EA vs. EJ? i'm pulling the ej out of my donor tomorrow and i have already pulled to ea from the brat, i'll take a look at them, and try to post some pictures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 One thing to consider is that the ECU communicates with the TCU. The communication language may not be the same between the EJ22 ECU and the EA82 4EAT TCU. You may be able to swap an EJ22 TCU in and see if you could hook it up if it doesn't work. THe transmission will not be happy if it doesn't get it's info from the ECU. I'd say it was a different torque converter, but it may have the same input shafts into the tranny. The 4EAT isn't bad, they do use it in drag racing instead of the manual. I prefer manuals myself, but I would take an auto if it had some nice crawling gear and a manual valve body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 One thing to consider is that the ECU communicates with the TCU. The communication language may not be the same between the EJ22 ECU and the EA82 4EAT TCU. You may be able to swap an EJ22 TCU in and see if you could hook it up if it doesn't work. THe transmission will not be happy if it doesn't get it's info from the ECU. On the EAs, the ECU doesn't communicate any extra with the TCU. The only extra pins on the ECU for the 4EAT is the inhibitor switch (which 3ATs have too). This *may* be different with the EJs, but as long as he's using the EA 4EAT with the EA's TCU, I don't see this being a problem. I'm actually a bit curious as to how this turns out. There are those people who prefer automatics, and if you have an EA with a 4EAT, I see no reason to do a tranny swap unless you prefer a 5spd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 On the EAs, the ECU doesn't communicate any extra with the TCU. The only extra pins on the ECU for the 4EAT is the inhibitor switch (which 3ATs have too). This *may* be different with the EJs, but as long as he's using the EA 4EAT with the EA's TCU, I don't see this being a problem. I'm actually a bit curious as to how this turns out. There are those people who prefer automatics, and if you have an EA with a 4EAT, I see no reason to do a tranny swap unless you prefer a 5spd. Oh, sorry for misinforming. I spent a lot of time with the EJ wiring diagrams and remembered the TCU comm line. The TCU has it's own speed sensor? or does it use the one in the spedo? You can auto-bash all you want, but when that truck with the auto oozes over that ledge you just burnt half you're clutch bouncing over, you'll see the benifits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 The TCU requires a signal from the MAP sensor on the ECU of an MPFI equipped vehicle. That's one reason why you never see SPFI or carbed 4EAT's. Shouldn't be a problem to wire that into the EJ harness I wouldn't think. Speed sensor is in the guage cluster, and is present on all subaru's since 82. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 The TCU requires a signal from the MAP sensor on the ECU of an MPFI equipped vehicle. How's this work? EA MPFIs don't have a MAP sensor. I'm pretty sure though EA 4EATs need a TPS signal to go into "power" mode when the pedal is pushed rapidly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 Sorry - not a MAP sensor I guess (although only in the sense that it doesn't monitor *manifold* pressure). It's an amospheric pressure sensor (so AAP I suppose) built into the ECU. Northwet was talking about it in relation to another thread. I assume the EA82 4EAT is similar to the Legacy in relation to the early TCU designs.... http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showpost.php?p=535251&postcount=22 GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthWet Posted January 12, 2007 Share Posted January 12, 2007 I suspect that there is physical interchangeability between the components. But again, I am of little immediate help due to weather (uncommon snow and ice) and work schedule. This does interest me, though, so if I can work it in during my moving this weekend I will check it out. ...I assume the EA82 4EAT is similar to the Legacy in relation to the early TCU designs.... OT, but might as well get some info in here: The TCU seems to be somewhat different during the run of EA82 years. The ones in my 88 vs 90 had different mounts and different IDs; not sure if they function interchangeably. I have not pulled loose the TCU on my 90 Legacy and compared it to the EA82 versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted January 12, 2007 Author Share Posted January 12, 2007 The big difference TCU wise is "1st hold" switch and the different shifter setups. Legacys have all four gears on the shifter and have the MANU select button. EA's use a different shifter/inhibitor switch. I would think that there must be differenceds in the TCU's although you may be able to trick it(wire the first hold switch into the 1st position on inhibitor?) I am not going to be swapping tranny's or TCU's so I don't know why this is the direction the thread has taken. The TCU requires a signal from the MAP sensor on the ECU of an MPFI equipped vehicle. GD No mine does not. it only needs the ignition pulse from coil. and the Signal from TPS. And those signals come straight from the sensors. NOTHING COMES FROM THE ECU! there is no MAP signal to Trans. I cannot speak for later 4EAT but on these early ones I have gone over the FSM many times and am sure of what I need to wire. Speed sensor is in the guage cluster, and is present on all subaru's since 82.GD There is a second speed sensor on the rear of tranny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baccaruda Posted January 13, 2007 Share Posted January 13, 2007 call aaron's auto wrecking and run some of these questions by the guys there. http://www.aaronsauto.com.. they can at least compare the torque converters for you, maybe help with the bellhousing and wiring issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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