Petersubaru Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 0/40 mobil1 seems to be the required oil for some of the most advanced cars of choice (gas or diesel)...somewhat new to the States and it has been in Europe now for some time...some of the tolerances are so tight on these newer engines, you can never rebuild them to the same exactness, nor were they ever designed with that in mind..sort of like a "throw away" engine designed to last the life of the vehicle... ever the more important to get that "close too" instanteous lubrication apon start up....especially into the upper cylinder walls because the piston rings have been placed "higher up" on the piston compared to the older design (among other things)..whatever is done to keep that oil "sticky" for the bearings as you mentioned or to keep some "film" on the cylinder walls goes beyond my "understanding"...I forgot to mention that 0/40 mobile is the recommended oil for my diesel...I can see from the blinking oil light on the dash that this oil gets to "full" pressure with a very noticable difference when comparing it to conventional 15/40 when the temp reaches 40F or under...I am not saying that 0/40 can be used "willy nilly" , but if the design calls for a very thin oil along with a "high pressure/Low volume" oil pump (newer cars) ..it only makes sense to use the thinner oils because "low volume/high pressure" oil pumps are not designed to move the thicker oil properly to those critical areas when the temps get low...and can lead to starvation if the temps fall to far down the scale.. , Engineers?? I know what those are, I have been one for the past 26 years here at Boeing, I'm a card carriying member of SAE, mostly because the "A" stands for both, automotive and areonautical. Maybe I'll have to delve into the SAE library to see what they have to say. Has anyone here every seen what only 10 psi of pressure can do, it can be very explosive if suddenly released, most engine oil systems operate at 30 psi. Unless an engine is left standing for a long period of time, there is residual oil on the bearing surfaces (the heavier the weight, the more likely to have a residual). At 30 psi the oil system is quickly supplied with fresh oil. What damages an engine most is revving it when it is still cold, this could cause starvation, even at 30 psi. What would a 0W40 oil flow like, water??? I didn't even know that they made such a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fnlyfnd Posted January 15, 2007 Share Posted January 15, 2007 why not use mobil1 gear oil? Isn't that like the slickest oil around Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 So, 0W40 is a synthetic (aka Mobil 1). What type of diesel do you have Petersubaru, certainly not a Subaru (I don't think they have release the diesel to Europe yet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 that is correct.Mobile 0/40 synthetic used in many of the higher end cars /gas , diesel and turbo-charged such as Mercedes/Bmw/Porsche etc...I wish subaru had a diesel available like honda and toyota/Vw deliverying up to 90mpg..I would settle for a Ford Focus with 3 or 4 diesel motors available with about the same number of transmissions available, but unfortunately the choices are not available to us...I have a well used Dodge Sprinter 2.7 diesel taking 0/30 both summer and winter( the only oil recommended) good for 20-30k mi between oil changes in highway driven (uses the replaceable canister type oil filter)...the 0/40 test I mentioned earlier comparing to the conventional 15/40 was done on a 86 vw diesel..strictly an experiment done a couple of years ago and in no way would I use this 0/40 oil on such a well used car.. So, 0W40 is a synthetic (aka Mobil 1). What type of diesel do you have Petersubaru, certainly not a Subaru (I don't think they have release the diesel to Europe yet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setright Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 The ball bearing test ignores to vital factors: 1) Inside an engine, the oil is delivered under pressure, it doesn't just rest in the bottom of a pan. 2) The bearing contact surfaces form lines, not points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 The ball bearing test ignores to vital factors: 1) Inside an engine, the oil is delivered under pressure, it doesn't just rest in the bottom of a pan. 2) The bearing contact surfaces form lines, not points. It is obvious that you have never seen the Bardall test, both the ball bearing and the surface it is in contact with are moving, the oil is forming a film (layer) over both surfaces, then pressure on the ball bearing is slowly applied. The idea is to see how the oil holds up to this kind of friction. You can see both metal surfaces get red hot from the friction. It basically creates thermol breakdown of the oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 that is correct.Mobile 0/40 synthetic used in many of the higher end cars /gas , diesel and turbo-charged such as Mercedes/Bmw/Porsche etc....I would love to see what it does to the bearing surfaces of the turbo charges that are not using roller bearings. I haven't own a Mercede yet (it's on my wife's wish list) but have own both a BWM (735i) and several Porches (911S and 914), yes they are older cars, but I never ran less the a 30 weight oil in any of them. There is a special oil, I think it is a 10W50 that is made specifically for BMWs, so I'm wondering which models run the 0W40 oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Then if you like Porsche, I am ALMOST certain, that any Porsche, be it 2005/06/07..300hp or 500hp your choice of N/A or Turbo/ making 8000+RPM all take the same 0/40 mobile syn... my diesel doesn't make high RPMs so the 0/30 is just fine I would love to see what it does to the bearing surfaces of the turbo charges that are not using roller bearings. I haven't own a Mercede yet (it's on my wife's wish list) but have own both a BWM (735i) and several Porches (911S and 914), yes they are older cars, but I never ran less the a 30 weight oil in any of them. There is a special oil, I think it is a 10W50 that is made specifically for BMWs, so I'm wondering which models run the 0W40 oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Then if you like Porsche, I am ALMOST certain, that any Porsche, be it 2005/06/07..300hp or 500hp your choice of N/A or Turbo/ making 8000+RPM all take the same 0/40 mobile syn... my diesel doesn't make high RPMs so the 0/30 is just fineFound an interesting article on Mobile 1 0W40, http://www.mobil.com/Canada-English/Lubes/PDS/IOCAENPVLMOMobil_1_0W-40.asp . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setright Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 You've still not explained how the Bardall test is relevant to oil lubricating an engine's internals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cookie Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Seems to me the BMW special oil for Ms is 10-60 but my earlier M does not require that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Seems to me the BMW special oil for Ms is 10-60 but my earlier M does not require that.Yea, I could remember the exact weight, but I knew it was a special weight for only BWMs. If it was more readily available, I'd be running it in my car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 You've still not explained how the Bardall test is relevant to oil lubricating an engine's internals.Well I guess if you can't see the relevance of friction build up with the relationship to internal wear of an engine, there is no way I can explain this test to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setright Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Duh? What I mean is that plain-bearings inside an engine do not make contact in points like ball bearings on plates. They make contact in lines, and the oil is forced into them, meaning that an oil film is sustainable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 Duh? What I mean is that plain-bearings inside an engine do not make contact in points like ball bearings on plates. They make contact in lines, and the oil is forced into them, meaning that an oil film is sustainable. Duh!!! They do contact in the same way, plain bearings are just over a wider area. There is a film of oil on the ball bearing and well as the surface that it is on contact with, there is a constant flow of oil over the area of contact, so that film is sustainable. If you never saw the demonstration, it might be hard for you to visualize. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Setright Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Well, that may well me true. I have seen plain bearings that live inside engines. These have oil feed into them and pushed in between the bearing surfaces (hopefully!) and that seems to me to provide a major advantage to free flowing oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Well, that may well me true. I have seen plain bearings that live inside engines. These have oil feed into them and pushed in between the bearing surfaces (hopefully!) and that seems to me to provide a major advantage to free flowing oil. Believe me, I understand exactly what happens when oil flows within an engine. I have personally destroyed several engines due to oil starvation, even to the point of having parts break through the block. I know only too well what oil starvation can do. I believe the difference in these new lighter weight oils is that they are synthetic and have quite different lubricating properties then regular multi grade oil. I have used additives for many years to help keep surfaces sliding with less friction, these synthetics have those additives as part of them. I am currently using a synthetic, but it is also a 20W50 weight, I'm using it for the additional lubrication properties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petersubaru Posted January 31, 2007 Share Posted January 31, 2007 An interesting read with testing included and other facts at: lnengineering.com/oil.html Believe me, I understand exactly what happens when oil flows within an engine. I have personally destroyed several engines due to oil starvation, even to the point of having parts break through the block. I know only too well what oil starvation can do. I believe the difference in these new lighter weight oils is that they are synthetic and have quite different lubricating properties then regular multi grade oil. I have used additives for many years to help keep surfaces sliding with less friction, these synthetics have those additives as part of them. I am currently using a synthetic, but it is also a 20W50 weight, I'm using it for the additional lubrication properties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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