Subaru advice!

[aartod]

I have been looking to buy a subaru wagon and was wondering if I could get some advice from some of you subaru pros about what years were the "better" years to buy and if there were any years or engines/trannys to avoid buying. I was looking to buy a mid 80's to early 90's wagon and I do alot of commuting to work during the week--- and alot of driving in the woods on gravel roads and snowy mountain roads on the weekends! Let me know what you think would be the best fit for me!

[GoldDiggerRoo]

Most everything pre '85 (except the hatch's, then '88/89) and post '92 is great, I've had bad luck with the middle, so have a lot of others. The earlier ones are built like rocks, they'll last forever.

 

EA81 FTW!

[Prospeeder]

Ull want a 5 speed, Dual range car, steer clear of the turbos if you dont wanna do lots of maintence or fix other peoples neglect, I dunno if SPFI cars had dual range or not.

[mikeshoup]

Everyone's opinions are going to be different on this.

 

Personally, I would look for an 88+ Wagon. That way you can get SPFI and not have to deal with carbs. If carbs are your thing any 1980-1987 will work. 1990+ will not have the Dual Range transmission as an option. If you want Dual Range, ideal would be 88-89. Though the single range pushbutton 4WD tranny is just as strong as the dual range.

 

I had an 88 GL SPFI D/R wagon. It was a great runner for the snow and gravel.

 

GoldDiggerRoo may have had bad luck with the EA82 generation (85-94) but as long as the one you get was kept well, they're as strong as the EA81s (80-84). I never had any bad problems with my non-Turbo one, and my brother's 89 is running strong at 240K+. You get a little more power from them as they're OHC. Downside, is you have timing belts to replace every 60,000 miles. Lucky you though, if timing belts break its a non-interference motor. No engine damage, you'll just be left walking home.

[chazmataz]

yes i do believe that spfi came with D/R 5 spd trans. i had the oppertunity to get one once that had been sitting awhile it was center punched in the front hard and it had spfi, D/R 5spd and power everything.

[GoldDiggerRoo]

....GoldDiggerRoo may have had bad luck with the EA82 generation (85-94) but as long as the one you get was kept well, they're as strong as the EA81s (80-84).....

 

Exactly, the trick is finding the well kept N/A Ea82 car (I.E. avoid the dirt cheap ones). But the boards sure are littered with a lot more EA82 problem questions than EA81.... and the EA81 problems usually are cheaper to fix.

 

How much do you have to spend? If you've got a couple grand to throw around, since you're looking for a commuter I'd be looking more toward the early/mid '90's Impreza wagons, I've seen plenty of those go between the $2k-$3k range. Awful nice cars for the money

[chazmataz]

my 86 GL wgn i got it with just over 100,000 miles on the clock and the timing belts on it just broke at about 215,000 but i wouldn't recommend letting them go that long.

 

anyway i personally like the EA82's(85- early90's), i never had to much of a problem with mine. i do like the 80-84 wagon, 80-whatever hatch and brats. i've always like that body style but when i bought my first one i went with the EA82 body style because it had more room in it especially in the back ( cargo area ).

[zyewdall]

If you want something stock, I'd have to recommend an 88 or 89 GL wagon (or 87 if it was originally sold in CA). Those years have SPFI, and also dual range. Any later than that doesn't have dual range, so you'd have to transplant it in. The earlier EA82's were carbureated, which is a nightmare when they get old. The EA81's are nice for the woods driving (actually I prefer them to the EA82's), but not so hot on the highway for commuting. And they are all carbureated too. I think it is a better (simpler) engine design, but not much power on the highway. I currently have an '89 GL, since it's the newest one I could get with dual range. But I am working on putting a 5 speed dual range in an '82, and some sort of diesel engine. Alot of the older 4 speed dual ranges are missing third gear synchros, but I've never had trouble with the 5 speeds.

[jacobs]

I purchased a 1986 carbureted EA82 in 1989 with 30,000 miles and presently have 375,000 miles on it. The only carburetor problem I've ever had was I had to replace the accelerator pump about 4 years ago and it was easy and cheep to replace. Personally, I'll take a carburetor over FI any day. I doubt if anyone with FI has had that kind of dependability.

[zyewdall]

I purchased a 1986 carbureted EA82 in 1989 with 30,000 miles and presently have 375,000 miles on it. The only carburetor problem I've ever had was I had to replace the accelerator pump about 4 years ago and it was easy and cheep to replace. Personally, I'll take a carburetor over FI any day. I doubt if anyone with FI has had that kind of dependability.

Ah, the eternal FI vs Carb debate. You'll never convince me. Seems like you've had good luck though. But every carbureated subaru I've owned has been so worn by 200k miles that internal vacuum leaks prevent it from idling anymore, and I've always been told about $350 for a rebuild, or $600 for a new carbureator. Same issue with other late 80's carbs on trucks.

 

Now, 60's and early 70's carbs I like fine. And I don't like the SPFI system on 80's GM products. But I like SPFI subarus.

[jacobs]

But every carbureated subaru I've owned has been so worn by 200k miles that internal vacuum leaks prevent it from idling anymore, and I've always been told about $350 for a rebuild, or $600 for a new carbureator.

 

Yes, I know that’s the going rate for a carb rebuild, but it’s beyond me how anyone with a clear conscience could charge anywhere that much.......TOTALLY UNREASONABLE!!! I’ve only rebuilt one carb that was difficult enough to charge over $100 and it wasn’t a Subaru, and then I only charged the guy for the rebuild kit.

[keltik]

My vote is for an XT6, it should fit your commuting bill better. But if you want a wagon to throw things in the back of you cant beat an EA82 with SPFI.

 

Im surprised nobody mentioned a D/R early Legacy....

[zyewdall]

Im surprised nobody mentioned a D/R early Legacy....

 

Don't tempt us. You know we never got those in north america. :-\

[jacobs]

and I've always been told about $350 for a rebuild, or $600 for a new carbureator.

 

I purchased a new 4 barrel carburetor from the local Chevy dealer for $25 in 1966. Using the inflation calculator at http://westegg.com/inflation/ the 2005 price should be $146.46. This is for a high performance carburetor! $600 for a simple little Subaru carb? What is this world coming to? This is insanity!

[GeneralDisorder]

Being one of the few on this board that has worked extensively with both carbs, and SPFI - and have run both as daily drivers.... my check mark goes beside the SPFI. It's a superior system both in econemy and power. There just aren't any drawbacks to the SPFI if you spend the few hours it takes to understand how it works. Most of the people that proclaim "carbs are best" don't understand the SPFI, aren't willing to learn about it, and likely haven't driven one. The system was in use from 86 to 94 - parts are everywhere, and the system is self-diagnostic so it's very easy and simple to work on. Besides that it rarely breaks down. The SPFI setup I installed in my Brat had 258,000 on it when I pulled it from a wrecked 91 Loyale and it runs awesome.

 

The stock Hitachi carbs are horrible. I've thrown all the ones I had in a dumpster and went with Weber's. The EA82 version in particular suffers from choke spring failure. Having rebuilt both, and run both, the Weber's are more reliable, more powerful, and easier to maintain. But the SPFI matches it in performance, and handily beats it in econemy.

 

88/89 GL wagon with the 5 speed D/R is my vote for your needs. The SPFI can also be retro-fit to the older 82-87 wagons if you should find a really nice one that's a good deal. Here's my write-up on the process for the EA81 - it's similar for the EA82:

 

http://home.comcast.net/~trilinear/EA81_SPFI.html

 

GD

[aartod]

Thank you for all the help! I think I will try to find a 88-89 GL Wagon with a 5-speed... or if I come across a really nice 84 or earlier. If any one else has any extra advice on what to look for in a good subaru I would definately appreciare it!

[jacobs]

Being one of the few on this board that has worked extensively with both carbs, and SPFI - and have run both as daily drivers.... my check mark goes beside the SPFI. It's a superior system both in econemy and power. There just aren't any drawbacks to the SPFI if you spend the few hours it takes to understand how it works. Most of the people that proclaim "carbs are best" don't understand the SPFI, aren't willing to learn about it, and likely haven't driven one.

 

 

GD

 

GD,

Sorry for the misunderstanding if I came across that carbs are better. I didn't mean to say or imply that. If one size fit all, there would be only one car manufacturer making one model that never changes. I have three EA82's all with carbs and they have served me very reliably and they consistantly give me 36-42 mpg highway. You're right in that I don't want to learn about FI...Why should I when the stock carbs have been so good to me?

[GeneralDisorder]

GD,

Sorry for the misunderstanding if I came across that carbs are better. I didn't mean to say or imply that. If one size fit all, there would be only one car manufacturer making one model that never changes. I have three EA82's all with carbs and they have served me very reliably and they consistantly give me 36-42 mpg highway.

 

It's perfectly fine for you to like them. I find them lacking in performance personally. And I've run both for many miles and find better econemy with the SPFI across the board as do most members here. 26 to 28 is typical with the carbs (both Hitachi and Weber) on a 4WD. SPFI commonly runs 30 to 32 on the same vehicle. I've seen close to 34 on 2WD's with Weber's, and more is possible with SPFI. I would question your calculations if you are seeing over 40 on an EA82 of any sort. That's very difficult to acheive in normal conditions, and as far as I know there hasn't been anyone claiming figures that high - not even Subaru claimed that, and their EPA data was pretty generous to begin with.

 

You're right in that I don't want to learn about FI...Why should I when the stock carbs have been so good to me?

 

It's fine to not want to learn about them, but it disqualifies you as a subjective judge of their respective qualities. You can say that you "LOVE" the carbs, but having no experience with SPFI means you might actually like them better, and just not know it yet. It's like saying "why should I learn about matches when flint and striker work great for me?". You can't be a subjective judge without knowing something about both systems, and on the whole SPFI is best for most folks as it doesn't require knowledge of the choke, pumping the gas before starting, warm up, etc, etc, and has more "expected" driveability. You start it, and you drive it - simple.

 

I currently run a Weber on my daily and I like it as well, but everytime I get in my SPFI vehicle I think "wow - I really should do this to the other car too..". It's a feeling that's hard to describe - it's just "nicer", and it's because of a whole range of behaviours... start up in all weather conditions, doesn't "buck" as hard when you release the gas pedal, smoother acceleration charactaristics, better low end torque.... and the list goes on and on.

 

GD

[aartod]

By the way, what is the differance between DL and GL?

[Prospeeder]

I belive the DL's had the quad 4 headlight setup, and GLs had the composite ones, badging, and DLs were more apt to be complete base models compared to GLs

[jacobs]

And I've run both for many miles and find better econemy with the SPFI across the board as do most members here. 26 to 28 is typical with the carbs (both Hitachi and Weber) on a 4WD. SPFI commonly runs 30 to 32 on the same vehicle. I've seen close to 34 on 2WD's with Weber's, and more is possible with SPFI. I would question your calculations if you are seeing over 40 on an EA82 of any sort. That's very difficult to acheive in normal conditions, and as far as I know there hasn't been anyone claiming figures that high - not even Subaru claimed that, and their EPA data was pretty generous to begin with.

 

 

 

GD

 

I’m positive I’ll never convince GD anything since his mind is already made up but I have kept accurate documentation of all fuel purchased for all vehicles for many years. I can tell you exactly how many gallons of fuel I have burned in each of my vehicles. Due to this fact, I know what my fuel milage is, there isn’t any guessing or stretching the truth. Like I said, GD doesn’t believe it, never will and I really don’t care. And by the way, all my Subs are 4x4.

[Milemaker13]

Lets all simmer down a bit... and go with a Loyale. Great commuter car (MPG, roomy enuff, no worries), will tackle any on road snow condition with grace and ease, and gets down them gravel roads no problem!

[aartod]

What is differance in the loyale from a DL or a GL?

[mikeshoup]

What is differance in the loyale from a DL or a GL?

None really. Loyale was just a name change for the product line. Except for certain 90 turbo models, the Loyale came as SPFI only with a choice of FWD or S/R 4WD. No D/R.

[zyewdall]

I purchased a new 4 barrel carburetor from the local Chevy dealer for $25 in 1966. Using the inflation calculator at http://westegg.com/inflation/ the 2005 price should be $146.46. This is for a high performance carburetor! $600 for a simple little Subaru carb? What is this world coming to? This is insanity!

 

Ah, but have you compared the two carbs? I think it's safe to say that the subaru carb is four times as complicated as the '66 chevy carb, thus $600. Even a racing carb is simple compared to all the gizmos and solinoids and vacuum controls on a late 80's carb. I like the old carbureators from the 60's and earlier -- a giant flathead straight eight in a 5 ton dumptruck had a carb that was physically smaller than the subaru carb (with larger venturi's, of course, but without all the extra crap).