Caboobaroo Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 '87 coupe, SPFI EA82, FWD 3AT. Talked mroe to the guy I bought it from since i bought it not running. When I went to look at the car, it would turn over and want to fire, but didn't. The guy told me (since he's from Oregon too), that he bought it in Ashland before moving out here, drove it out here and it started to spit and sputter and finally died because it didn't want to run without sputtering real bad. I'm thinking a fuel issue so once I get it to the dealership where its nice and warm, I'm going to test the fuel pressure. FSM says it should be at 21psi, correct? Fuel pump comes on, TB is getting fuel, appears to have a new, or relatively new fuel filter. Could the pump be worn out to the point that it can't put out the fuel pressure? Its not making any funny noises either. Would a fuel pump work from a '89 EA82T MPFI car? Would altitude have anything to do with it? It went from like 1000 feet above sea level to 7200 feet above sea level. Also, this car won't be havin the crappy FWD 3AT in it any longer... FT4wd 5-speed FTW! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 Yep - 21psi. Any FI fuel pump should work. The SPFI pump is rated at 50 psi. GD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted January 16, 2007 Share Posted January 16, 2007 couple of quick questions.. the car doesn't run, so you dont have a chance for a CEL.. ask the PO if he ever saw one. If you haven't yet run a D-check, do so. Also, try blowing some compressed air backwards through the fuel line to make sure it bubbles into the tank with vigor.. restrictions in the line could cause FP problems, too... without totally cutting off the flow. If your FP checks out fine, check spark and timing... and then start hunting around and check all your vacuum lines. If all that is kosher, then it may be time to do a manual check of all the FI sensors and components for proper operation... which means that some of the mechanical devices involved in the air flow control etc. ought to be removed, disassembled, and cleaned. I would start with the TPS and the MAF, since either one of these could easily malfunction in a way that would gradually get worse, to a point of complete failure of the FI system. I mean, you obviously know what to do with a wrench in your hand.. so I am in no position to talk down to you and whatnot... I just thought a nice, third-party breakdown on how to proceed from here might be helpful I will go out on a limb and say that I doubt you are having a fuel pressure issue.. but pressure is nothing without flow. if the pump IS shot, there is a pump out of a ford pickup truck that is easily swappable... search around if you haven't heard about it yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted January 17, 2007 Author Share Posted January 17, 2007 Thanks for the info Daeron. Only thing about the MAF which I have checked, that if its unplugged, the ECU will see this and throw the car into a limp mode. I've done it before and the car still ran, just poorly and would rev above 3500rpm or so. I'm thinking its my fuel pressure as well. I have heard of the Ford fuel pump deal but why spend money on one when I got 2 perfectly good stock fuel pumps?:-p I'll see about blowing air through the lines to see if that will help. I'm going to disconnect the line from the intake and from the tank and blow away and see what kind of garbage that has built up in it comes out, if any. If there is a lot, then I have a new OEM fuel filter (one is a Purolator IIRC). I'm going to start with the 3 basic items, fuel, air and spark. I know I have good spark for sure cause I got a nice shock off of it when I was rotating the disty to see if it was a timing issue. If all those check out, next will be to triple check my timing to see if its spot on, just to rule it out, then I'll be cleaning sensors. First sensor that I can think of that would possibly do this might be the coolant sensor but by the time I figured out where it was, it was too cold to clean it. Right now, its 0 degrees out. Thats pretty warm compared to yesterday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted January 17, 2007 Share Posted January 17, 2007 well, you are obviously on the right track. you could even disconnect the lines back at the pump before blowing them out. Do you have the fragments of the FSM that float about in .pdf form? of not, clicky and find the ea-82 manual on that page. Read about how the system functions, and it can give you great insight and knowledge.. the TPS is a problem point that comes up slightly less often than MAF or CTS issues. It is even possible that there is some lockout sensor somewhere (ie transmission/clutch type? I am kinda wildly hypothesizing to be honest) that has gradually built up a critical resistance just in the bloody wires.. I call this "magic-wire syndrome" because its all a matter of finding the magic wire.. typically more of an intermittent thing, but theres more than one way for a magic wire to bite you in the arse... anyhow, if you haven't already, enjoy the read. GDs spfi conversion writeup gives a good non-fuji engineer's perspective breakdown of the system as well, but the bones of the situation is all in the FSM. Good toilet reading, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted January 18, 2007 Author Share Posted January 18, 2007 daeron, I do have the complete '87 FSM minus the section 6 that covers the electrical portion:-\ Also, this car doesn't have a clutch switch since its a manual but instead it has the neutral safety switch in the tranny. I'm wanting to go with a fuel problem but I will also be checking the CTS as well to verify that it is NOT the problem. Gotta start knocking things off of the list of possible causes or very slim possible causes. That's the easiest way to narrow down any problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowman Posted January 18, 2007 Share Posted January 18, 2007 Have you checked to make sure that the disty rotor isn't loose because of a missing screw? I've had them do all sorts of weird stuff when that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted January 18, 2007 Author Share Posted January 18, 2007 Have you checked to make sure that the disty rotor isn't loose because of a missing screw? I've had them do all sorts of weird stuff when that happens. yup, because I replaced the disty with another one I had and it has a brand new cap and rotor installed on it. I triple checked it before I installed it. Lower strength thread lock works wonders:-p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted January 20, 2007 Author Share Posted January 20, 2007 ok, I got it towed into work today so after I punched out, I started going at it again. Getting spark and I have replaced the disty, disty cap, rotor, plugs and wires. I'm getting fuel and I have checked the fuel filter to see if it had a possible clog and it checked out OK. Didn't have a cnahce to test the fuel pressure as of yet though. Thats on the list tomorrow. It ALMOST started though which is weird. When I pulled the fuel filter and blew through it to check for a clog, I then reinstalled it into the car, jumped in it and cranked it over. Its hard to describe the sound it makes but it sputtered up like it was starting and then went to a "crank crank crank putt putt putt putt, crank crank putt putt putt" type of sound. It was wanting to catch and take off but for some reason, it wasn't? Tomorrow I'm going to take my very expensive DVOM and check the specs of the MAF if I can and check the resistance in the CTS and corresonding connections. I'm still leaning toward a fuel issue though but I'll narrow that down tomorrow when I test the fuel pressue and make sure that its spot on. So, thoughts, opinions, suggestions? I got 3 1/2 months before I'm driving this thing out to Washington when I move:headbang: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 look into your FSM and find the page on calibrating the TPS, as well. It involves using a feeler gauge to open the throttle like 1* and then 3* or something like that.. and tells you what resistance to anticipate from that. The most difficult parts of the procedure are managing to get your feeler gauge in position.. and also, removing the clip on the TPS plug without it springing off into the void My thinking is, MAYBE the tps is "floored" and its feeding too much fuel?? you drained the FF, causing a fuel "starvation" situation, which almost let it run?? Thats only a possibility.. and it might not even be that, for all I know the ECU may well "ignore" the TPS when the vehicle is cranking or not running... I do know one thing. I had problems with MY tps.. so maybe you do, too.. The way I see it, throwing my ideas out there cant hurt nothin. They may be without much real value, in the end.. but at least im helping you brainstorm and rule things out at the same time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 My thinking is, MAYBE the tps is "floored" and its feeding too much fuel?? you drained the FF, causing a fuel "starvation" situation, which almost let it run?? A TPS registering full throttle triggers the fuel cutoff during cranking. In case the engine is flooded. Dumb question: You checked timing belts right? Also, I thought this was the engine that dropped a valve or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted January 20, 2007 Author Share Posted January 20, 2007 look into your FSM and find the page on calibrating the TPS, as well. It involves using a feeler gauge to open the throttle like 1* and then 3* or something like that.. and tells you what resistance to anticipate from that. The most difficult parts of the procedure are managing to get your feeler gauge in position.. and also, removing the clip on the TPS plug without it springing off into the void My thinking is, MAYBE the tps is "floored" and its feeding too much fuel?? you drained the FF, causing a fuel "starvation" situation, which almost let it run?? Thats only a possibility.. and it might not even be that, for all I know the ECU may well "ignore" the TPS when the vehicle is cranking or not running... I do know one thing. I had problems with MY tps.. so maybe you do, too.. The way I see it, throwing my ideas out there cant hurt nothin. They may be without much real value, in the end.. but at least im helping you brainstorm and rule things out at the same time Thats actually a good idea. And fortunatly for me, the FSM book that covers section 2 and 3 (engine and transmission/differential) has the specs for the MAF and the TPS in it. Also, what does the fuel dampener do? This is different from my MPFI models since the FSM says its only on the SPFI models... Mike, I have checked the timing belts a few times, checked the disty timing as well. I thought it was a dropped valve but on further inspection and compression testing, turns out the guy helping me read the gauge wrong. I'm also going to recheck the compression hopefully tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted January 20, 2007 Share Posted January 20, 2007 the fuel pump is a high pressure pump.. just like a pressure washer. It spits fuel out in spurts... PFF PFF PFF PFF PFF PFF PFF PFF..... (a little quicker than that, though....) the fuel dampener takes those spurts and smooths them out to high pressure flow. pffffffffffffffffffffffff..... I dont know what the "symptoms" of a bad fuel dampener are, in my experience "bad" means rusted out and leaking like a sieve I was also under the impression that there were two of them, but that impression came SOLELY from reading here on the forum, NOT the FSM, and NOT from working on my car. I suppose it might want renewal, though.. if you can easily access a JY spare to swap in, I guess its worth a shot. As you said, you really think its a fuel issue.. so who knows? not me BUT as I said, I could see the sense in trying that.. we both know that your issue is PROBABLY not with any of the 99% of the things that it "might" or "could" be... but heck. If you have (or can easily get) a JY spare, throw parts at it!! it just might work! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted January 21, 2007 Author Share Posted January 21, 2007 well the dreaded answer that I could possibly come up with has come. Went to work today and did stuff around the shop while on the clock. Clocked out and worked on the coupe. First thing I did was check the fuel pressure. Checked out at 20psi right on the nose. Next, I checked the compression with some help from one of the other mechanics... cylinder #1 - 0psi cylinder #2 - 125psi cylinder #3 - 135psi cylinder #4 - 0psi Yes, so it looks like I'm in need of an engine. Either a carbed or SPFI longblock minus intake, flywheel stuff and whatnot. Just need everything from the valve covers into the shortblock. I also checked my timing again today just to be on the sure side. I have one of the parts guys from work searching for one in the area for a couple hundred bucks hopefully but I'm also going to put an ad in the classifieds... At least I pinpointed the problem and once I get an engine, should only take me a couple hours to swap:headbang: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted January 21, 2007 Share Posted January 21, 2007 If you can wait in a couple weeks, we may be sending my brother's rotted out 3 door to the crusher. Engine has 240k on it, but it still runs brand new. But it isn't running atm either. Would need to make sure it isn't the long block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted January 21, 2007 Author Share Posted January 21, 2007 If you can wait in a couple weeks, we may be sending my brother's rotted out 3 door to the crusher. Engine has 240k on it, but it still runs brand new. But it isn't running atm either. Would need to make sure it isn't the long block. Oooo let me know what you come up with Mike! I'm going to pull the valve covers off to check the valves out next weekend I think. Hopefully it isn't something that was fatal to my engine but if its going to be a lot more work to machine the heads and stuff, then having to reseal it and so on and so forth, then I might as well just get another engine and drop it in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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