idosubaru Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 can a cable actuated transmission be used in a car with a hydraulic clutch? i've never worked on a car with a hydraulic clutch before so i know nothing about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I think so, the fork may have to be changed. We went the other way with my sons, and welded the top of the cable fork to the Hyd fork and its working fine. The cylinder bolt up may requrie some work. can a cable actuated transmission be used in a car with a hydraulic clutch? i've never worked on a car with a hydraulic clutch before so i know nothing about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 10, 2007 Author Share Posted February 10, 2007 cylinder bolt up may requrie some work. what's the cylinder? like the master cylinder? that would already be in a car with hydraulic clutch right? if i install a cable actuated trans, the hydr. clutch stuff will all be already in the car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmdew Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 The slave cylinder that pushes the fork. There is also the bleeder manifold which is on the side of the trans. I'm sure you could get them to bolt up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. RX Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 Oh if it were only that easy, you will need to replace the pedal assembly also. But I wonder why anyone would actually want to do that. With a cable clutch you will have to adjust the cable several times, with a hydraulic clutch you will probably never have to make an adjustment. If I were you, I would keep the hydraulic setup, and just learn more about it. That would be a lot cheaper and less frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 My concerns center around the throw of the slave cyl actuation rod. (Master cyl like in brakes is the cyl the foot pedal actuates. The slave is the cyl that operates the clutch fork/thowout bearing.) The hyd clutches I have worked on (Blokemobiles) have a short throw compared to the throw of the cable types I have worked on. The throw out bearing via the fork arm would need to be moved the same relative distance as it was with the cable. A bell crank comes to mind if needed. If you can verify this aspect of the swap it should work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerFahrer Posted February 11, 2007 Share Posted February 11, 2007 Wait a second. What hydro clutch car are you working on Gary? If this car with a hydro clutch is a turbo, then the clutches are different. Most turbo clutches are pull-style (the throwout bearing pulls the pressure plate out, some new Subaru turbos switched back to the other style) but the nonturbo clutches are push-style (the throwout bearing pushes the pressure plate in). Hydro clutches aren't complicated. When you push the pedal in, the master cylinder forces fluid into the slave cylinder, which pushes on the clutch fork and disengages the clutch. It works under the exact same principle as brakes. In fact, they both use brake fluid. I know that someone used a transmission with a hydro clutch and was able to get a cable clutch to work with it. But I dunno about the other way around. Any particular reason why you wanna go this route? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 nothing about this vehicle is stock, it's a project. the vehicle has a hydraulic clutch assembly that works with a 6 speed WRX transmission, so i assume it's a turbo set-up, but don't know for sure. i'm installing a FWD transmission in it. and i believe all FWD EJ manual trans are cable operated. so there's my question - how to fit a FWD EJ trans in a hydraulic clutch equipped car. there's no need for commentary on "FWD versus AWD" that people like to offer up for no reason. i am not here to discuss that, but that seems to be the way this always goes as soon as i mention it..which is why i was trying to avoid it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 Did my post make any sense? I took it that is was a custom install and questioned nothing but the operating principles there in and how to check to see if it will work. I will say good luck, my bet is you'll get it figured out, even if it takes fitting another slave cyl from a more or less "conventional" hyd set up. (I think Imps use a conventional hyd set up, I will go out and look at my 2.5RS and shoot some picts if you want. She's been sitting for a couple months and the snow prevents me from checking right now) For this to work the new slave must have the same or larger "swept volume" of the one used now. Preferably with the same piston diameter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 12, 2007 Author Share Posted February 12, 2007 yes makes sense. the only thing i didn't understand was the "bell crank". i'm guessing it'll make more sense once i get in there and figure out all the hydraulic gizmo's since i'm not familiar with them yet. last resort i'll have to swap to clutch cable, but i'm hoping to avoid that. with the transmission out, is there anyway to swap the EJ hydraulic clutch fork for the cable fork? or are the input shafts/transmissions actually different? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 yes makes sense. the only thing i didn't understand was the "bell crank". i'm guessing it'll make more sense once i get in there and figure out all the hydraulic gizmo's since i'm not familiar with them yet. last resort i'll have to swap to clutch cable, but i'm hoping to avoid that. with the transmission out, is there anyway to swap the EJ hydraulic clutch fork for the cable fork? or are the input shafts/transmissions actually different? Think of the letter Z thats a bell crank. Put pivot points on where the lines join. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerFahrer Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 Okay, I understand what you're doing. You're going to have a four-bolt vs. eight-bolt issue, because the 6-speed trans is for an STi, which uses a Phase-II engine, which has an 8-bolt bellhousing, not like the 4-bolt Phase I. Not having swapped between the two, I can't tell you if this will be an issue or not. If it's not, then the only thing you have to do is get a complete clutch that works with your FWD transmission, and install it on the engine that's in the car now. That clutch will be a push-style, and will correspond with your push-style transmission. Then yeah, you're going to have to figure out the pedal assembly, but besides removing the old clutch master cylinder and pedal box, installing the cable pedal box, and drilling a hole in the firewall to route the cable through, I don't think there's much else. Oh, and you're going to have to put a return spring on the clutch fork on the outside and attach it somewhere. On old cars like we're used to, the Hill-Holder spring is the return spring, but on non-HH cars, there is a spring on the clutch fork that mounts somewhere on the engine to help pull the fork back when engaging the clutch. Oh damn, you might have an issue with tranny crossmembers, mounts, and axles too. And why do you want to do this again? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 13, 2007 Share Posted February 13, 2007 And why do you want to do this again? besides the fact that it is a HUGE step backwards. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 13, 2007 Author Share Posted February 13, 2007 here's the question - there's no way to convert a clutch style transmission to a hydraulic style clutch set-up? never seen one, so i don't know how the transmission side differs. can i install a hydraulic fork on a cable style transmission? You're going to have a four-bolt vs. eight-bolt issue, because the 6-speed trans is for an STi, which uses a Phase-II engine, which has an 8-bolt bellhousing, not like the 4-bolt Phase I. Not having swapped between the two, I can't tell you if this will be an issue or not that will not be an issue, that's very easy to deal with. the car was originally a cable style, so converting back isn't an issue either, but i'll attempt to retain the hydraulic clutch if i can. and for the same reason the return spring won't be an issue either if needed. trans crossmembers, axles and such are not issues, you're looking too hard. And why do you want to do this again? that's not relevant to the question. the more info i offer, the more the thread gets derailed...which i don't need to explain as the last two posts have proved that. besides the fact that it is a HUGE step backwards. for you it is, but this car is not for you. that it's a step backwards for you does not mean it is across all possible circumstances and users. i have a ton of subaru's and all the rest are 4WD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hankosolder2 Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Gary, I was just curious if your plan is to build a high mileage FWD Subaru- I think you mentioned something along these line in another thread. I'm curious what your plans are and promise not to criticize! Feel free to PM. Nathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Ok then, well i am bowing out of this thread. Good luck with whatever it is your building. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerFahrer Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Okay, I'm confused again. I thought you wanted to install the FWD transmission in the car and install the cable release system that corresponds to it in the car. I can't confirm 100%, but I don't think the hydro system will work on a transmission that originally used a cable setup. The clutch fork mounts differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 14, 2007 Author Share Posted February 14, 2007 I can't confirm 100%, but I don't think the hydro system will work on a transmission that originally used a cable setup. The clutch fork mounts differently. thanks michael, i'll be sure to have a look at this, literally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerFahrer Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Yeah, it won't work. I went back and refreshed my memory. The cable forks mount on the pivot ball, but the hydro forks pivot on a little metal rod that bolts up in the bellhousing. By the way, I wasn't trying to be an rump roast when I asked why you wanted to do this, I was 100% joking. T'aint nothing wrong with doing something unique. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 15, 2007 Author Share Posted February 15, 2007 Yeah, it won't work. I went back and refreshed my memory. The cable forks mount on the pivot ball, but the hydro forks pivot on a little metal rod that bolts up in the bellhousing. By the way, I wasn't trying to be an rump roast when I asked why you wanted to do this, I was 100% joking. T'aint nothing wrong with doing something unique. cool, sounds good. i figured as much from you, since you know me. my eyes were rolling since i knew others would jump all over that too...thanks for pointing it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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