Help. Problem with Legacy on left turns

[ecahir]

I am looking for some help with a 2002 Legacy Wagon L, 5sp manual with 55K. About 2 weeks ago, the car got a bad vibration when I turn left and only when I turn left. It doesn't happen ever day, seems worse in the cold or if I am on an incline. Only happens when I am moving slowly and not fast. It is not a subtle vibration; it feels like you are driving over a rumble strip. It never happens when I go right. My left front CV joint was bad and the entire axel replaced. I thought that had fixed it, but about a week later it started up again. My mechanic, who suspects the transfer case, replaced the CV joint again just to be sure that the CV joint he put in wasn't bad, even though he did not believe that was the problem. And of course, driving home from the shop, it did it pulling into my driveway. The thing that neither he nor I understand is if it is the transfer case (viscous coupling type) why only left. Could it be a steering rack problem? Is there something I can do to test like putting it into front wheel drive (is this safe for the car)? I am the original owner, purchased 9/25/01. I replaced the tires last year and they are matched. Any insight would be appreciated. Thanks.E.

[Nug]

On older Legacies, there was a place under the hood, toward the right rear (like you were sitting in the driver's seat) of the engine compartment for one to put a 10 amp fuse. This would disable AWD. Try this (If equipped) and tell us what it does. It's safe to do this, won't hurt anything.

[ferret]

Could be the right C/V joint. As you turn left, the right front tire has the further travel. This puts the power from the front differential on that right tire and C/V joint.

 

Check it by jacking up the vehicle and turn the steering to the left. Then slowly rotate the right tire and feel the joint for a stutter instead of a smooth rotation.

[nipper]

No Fuse, this is a manual. Lets hope the shudder is just a wheel bearing, brake caliper, or cv joint.

 

Now worse case scenario is that its torque bind. Check you tire pressures, make sure the tires match and are the same brand. Torque bind in a manual is terminal, unlike an automatic where there are things we can do to try to treat it.

 

And before anyone says it, the clutch pack in the manual is sealed so no conditioner will help. :-p

 

nipper

[kevinsUBARU]

I have the same problem on a 2001 Legacy L wagon, 5-speed, 73,000 miles.

 

I was told that the power steering hose assembly is the culprit alot of the times (from a shop owner on NASIOC). Insuficient pressure due to restrictions in the hose cause the pulsation, and it's about $155 for the hose and an hour of labor to fix.

 

I was also told that it's a sign of a dying power steering pump and/or fluid may be low.

 

Take your pick, whatever you choose, it's most likley something related to the power steering pump.

 

That being said, I haven't fixed mine yet, and it's been doing it since last winter.

 

Take care,

Kevin

[7thSubaru]

ecahir describes my 2001 Legacy 5sp wagon symptoms perfectly. 144K with no previous drive-train issues. Issue is turning left like into a parking space. Never right and not every time I turn left. Appointment with the stealership on Friday - will be interesting to hear what they have to say.

[kevinsUBARU]

Oh yes, please report back!

 

 

Thanks, take care,

Kevin

[ecahir]

I checked my tire pressure and it was low all around--between 23 and 25lbs. I inflated to 30lbs and the problem has disappeared! I need to bring them up to 33lbs but it was about 5 degrees out that day and it was all I could manage at the time. I asked my mechanic if they checked the tire pressures and he said that they probably hadn't. He doubted that they had overlooked something so obvious and still suggested that I would need a clutch/VC replacement (air is too inexpensive). I think I need a new mechanic. Obviously, I need to be a lot more vigilant about the tire pressure (learned from y'all and warned my subie driving friends). I usually gauge my tire pressure by my gas mileage and I thought my mileage was low because of the winter temps. I now have a tire gauge in my coat pocket! I would have thought that in the last 10 times I have been to the shop over the last 3 months (in for idle injector problem--stalling in 1st gear) that they would have filled them for me, but clearly that is not his job (sigh). My question now to you all is have I damage the VC driving it for 3 weeks with occasional binding? Or am I in the clear?

Thanks.

E.

[uniberp]

Hard tires are easier to turn. May still be PS pump.

 

I checked my tire pressure and it was low all around--between 23 and 25lbs. I inflated to 30lbs and the problem has disappeared! I need to bring them up to 33lbs but it was about 5 degrees out that day and it was all I could manage at the time. I asked my mechanic if they checked the tire pressures and he said that they probably hadn't. He doubted that they had overlooked something so obvious and still suggested that I would need a clutch/VC replacement (air is too inexpensive). I think I need a new mechanic. Obviously, I need to be a lot more vigilant about the tire pressure (learned from y'all and warned my subie driving friends). I usually gauge my tire pressure by my gas mileage and I thought my mileage was low because of the winter temps. I now have a tire gauge in my coat pocket! I would have thought that in the last 10 times I have been to the shop over the last 3 months (in for idle injector problem--stalling in 1st gear) that they would have filled them for me, but clearly that is not his job (sigh). My question now to you all is have I damage the VC driving it for 3 weeks with occasional binding? Or am I in the clear?

Thanks.

E.

[nipper]

I checked my tire pressure and it was low all around--between 23 and 25lbs. I inflated to 30lbs and the problem has disappeared! I need to bring them up to 33lbs but it was about 5 degrees out that day and it was all I could manage at the time. I asked my mechanic if they checked the tire pressures and he said that they probably hadn't. He doubted that they had overlooked something so obvious and still suggested that I would need a clutch/VC replacement (air is too inexpensive). I think I need a new mechanic. Obviously, I need to be a lot more vigilant about the tire pressure (learned from y'all and warned my subie driving friends). I usually gauge my tire pressure by my gas mileage and I thought my mileage was low because of the winter temps. I now have a tire gauge in my coat pocket! I would have thought that in the last 10 times I have been to the shop over the last 3 months (in for idle injector problem--stalling in 1st gear) that they would have filled them for me, but clearly that is not his job (sigh). My question now to you all is have I damage the VC driving it for 3 weeks with occasional binding? Or am I in the clear?

Thanks.

E.

 

Since all the tires were underinflated, not evenly (but close), you may have escaped by the skin of your teeth.

Now if all the tires were at 33 and the one at 23 you would have been doomed.

 

Only time can tell.

 

nipper

[7thSubaru]

Left turn chatter update - after 2 days at the dealer (they were short of technician's on day 1) they did not experience the left turn issue as described. That cost me $45.00. Conclusion was to drive it until something more develops. That does nothing to reassure the spouse. I do have a leaking drivers side head gasket - another $45.00 diagnosis. I asked them to investigate why I slowly lose coolant over time, see coolant drips behind the oil pan, and smell hot coolant when I shouldn't. $1600 to replace both head gaskets. Will be calling Corporate Customer Service on Monday. Anybody ever guilt them into paying/partially paying to permanently fix the head gasket leak after the recall was performed? I'll be doing a search. May not get anywhere with Corporate but if they want me to buy an eighth Subaru...

[nipper]

You should be covered under the head gasket warrenty. I am surprised the dealer didnt mention this, as its found money for them.

 

Next time you have a noise issue, take the tech with you on a drive and point it out to them. I dont want to say this is a bad shop, just lazy. 45.00 to find a noise is a bit much.

 

http://www.subaruheadgasket.com/vehicleyear.htm

 

nipper

[7thSubaru]

Nipper,

I have 144K miles although the coolant recall was done at 90K. I may have to fight a bit.

7

[nipper]

Oh sorry about that, i thought you were the original poster, my bad.

 

And talking purely from a professional point of view, your out of luck. Your past the 100K, and your in the range where if an engine blows a HG or has one leak, its an acceptable life span.

 

You can try, but in all honesty, nothing latst forever. If this was a honda that had a HG issue at this mileage, most would just add it up as wear and tear (i have had a honda do it and i worte it off as that).

 

Good luck, but dont get upset if they offer you nothing.

 

nipper

[ecahir]

Another update. Despite the inflated tires I started to feel a vibration on left turns again. So I took it into a different mechanic than I had originally--Speen St. Auto . They specialize in Subies. It is a private garage started by some guys that used to be dealer mechanics. Very well rated on a lot of web sites. They say the problem is with the powersteering and gave me a TSB from 2001 that covered model years 95-00 that said that the back-pressure from the PS pump can cause vibration. Now mine is an 02 but he said it is probably the same problem. The TSB says "While some customers may object to the noise, it does not harm the steering system or any of the components." I have to say I am not a big fan of the "noise" or vibration. It feels like harm is being done--ie like two metal parts are rubbing together. In any case, the mechanic said don't spend any money on this problem or if I really want to try something, have the power steering flushed (he did not have the equipment for such a thing). Does this make any sense to you? Any recommendations on additives to add that might help?

Thanks.

[thatswhatshesaid]

I had a similar shuddering problem on a 2000 Outback...turned out to be a broken swaybar. (But I guess you would have seen that when you looked under the car)

[nipper]

Another update. Despite the inflated tires I started to feel a vibration on left turns again. So I took it into a different mechanic than I had originally--Speen St. Auto . They specialize in Subies. It is a private garage started by some guys that used to be dealer mechanics. Very well rated on a lot of web sites. They say the problem is with the powersteering and gave me a TSB from 2001 that covered model years 95-00 that said that the back-pressure from the PS pump can cause vibration. Now mine is an 02 but he said it is probably the same problem. The TSB says "While some customers may object to the noise, it does not harm the steering system or any of the components." I have to say I am not a big fan of the "noise" or vibration. It feels like harm is being done--ie like two metal parts are rubbing together. In any case, the mechanic said don't spend any money on this problem or if I really want to try something, have the power steering flushed (he did not have the equipment for such a thing). Does this make any sense to you? Any recommendations on additives to add that might help?

Thanks.

 

I dont like it.

There is one way to find out if it is the PS pump. If this is happening on ALL left turns remove the accessory drive belt. Go for a short drive (around the block) and see if it goes away. If it does then maybe ill buy into the PS pump. I dont like the PS pump argument because it should happen on both left and right hand turns.

 

If you do this test remove PS fluid from the resivoir, as you may pump the fluid out of the rack into the resivoir and make a mess.

 

http://www.endwrench.com/pdf/steering/FtSteeringSystemsSp99.pdf

 

nipper

[ecahir]

Not all the time. It is worse in the cold and only when you go slow like turning into the driveway, left turns from a stop, a slow circle or parking. But then it will happen pretty reliably. I am not sure I am up to this test but will take a look at the link.

 

I agree with you Nipper, neither the PS pump nor torque bind should be left only--very unsatisfactory.

 

I am starting to loathe this car. Too bad, I loved my 1990 Legacy Wagon. I noticed a burning oil smell and mentioned it to the mechanic thinking that I might be leaking Power steering fluid (although the level looked ok) —the oil pump is leaking a little and will need to be replaced soon-estimate is $600. Between the idle injector solenoid debacle ($700 and 6 trips to the shop) and general maintenance (brakes and rotors, new tires, CV joint, and what not) I have been to the shop about 12 times in the last few months and put $2700 into the thing. And I am not finished-that is without the Oil pump and no solution to my left hand turn issue. I may just get rid of it. I just don’t have time to fuss with this thing. I am afraid to drive it even to drive the 75 miles to the Cape.