Loosing ORV land?

[[HTi]Dain]

Numbchux,

 

You seem to know enough about your states’ situation, and loosing all of your ORV land. Please, inform us about this situation, as I feel that you had a valid point; but I do not think you were expressing it in the right manner. As a Subaru owner, and new USMB member, I believe in keeping things positive; like true Subaru and USMB spirit, always moving forward, never backward. Also any off-roader should feel somewhat responsible for this cause, as we all love our Subaru’s, and enjoy having fun with them on and off the road, I think none of us would want to see that disappear or be limited. So please tell us of any constructive ways that we board members could help with your state’s situation.

[Uberoo]

numbchux's state is very important in keeping ORV trails.If his falls,pretty soon all other states will follow suite.hell around here there is talk of land closing just because *********************es tear up the land,drive through fenses,Drive absolutly smashed through a little town near the offroading,vandalize stuff,etc.Granted this area is more like reiter pit people go offroad there but its not an ORV park.

 

I think I need to get my wagon offroad so I can clean up there mess!

[Numbchux]

OK, here goes. I've been brainstorming for a thread like this for a few days....

 

 

I don't agree that Minnesota has anything to do with the NW.

 

guess what....it does. we're all tied together, if one state bans ORV use on public land, the dominoes will take out many others. Washington and Oregon may not be next....but they will be effected. You can bet on that.

 

 

The State of Minnesota is the third largest land owner in the US. Behind the Federal Government, and the State of Alaska. A year ago, we were allowed into two (2) state-owned facilities. now, we're down to one. Lucky for me, I only live an hour drive away from it, but, who knows for how long. Last spring, the State Legislature was offered a bill that would ban OHV use (ATVs, OHMs and ORVs) on all public land. It almost passed, and it's pretty likely that that same bill will be revised, and re-offered to the state congress.....and the vote could very easily go the other way.

 

Now, I don't have to tell you guys that this isn't the solution, obviously people will just do it illegally. Opening MORE land to control use is the answer, but the people with influence don't know this.

 

The fight for ORV land is a PR campaign. And, for the most part, the ORV community has done nothing to counter the vast anti-ORV community. But, the first step that we can take in our fight to keep the land we have, and have a prayer at getting more, is to be careful about what you post. We all know it's the exact opposite reaction, but if the anti-ORV people get a hold of evidence of illegal and destructive use, it'll give them more leverage against allowing more legal use.

 

So just think twice before posting pictures. Go have fun, take pics for yourself, but think twice before making them public. And always keep in mind that the Anti-ORV crowd LOVES to take things out of context. So even if it was on legal land, if it looks destructive, or dangerous, it can be used against us.

 

Part of this PR campaign is the stereotype that the ORV community is a bunch of stupid, inbred rednecks. And that the only way we have fun is if we're smashing into things, throwing cattails 30 feet into the air, etc. So anything that even remotely agrees with those stereotypes is a perfect candidate to be kept to yourself. Unfortunately, this is most of the wheeling that you guys have in the NW. And I realize you want to post up pictures, so that's ok, but just think twice first.

 

 

Here's an article that was published in the Wall Street Journal. More proof that we're all tied together by the anti-ORV PR.

 

Recreation

Peeling Out, With Impunity

 

Now people who rip up the earth have their own parks; a Hummer spitting gravel

By CONOR DOUGHERTY

December 2, 2006; Page P1

 

GILBERT, Minn. -- Several weeks ago, Dan Olson took a drive in the woods, revving his blue Chevy Blazer through mud banks and over piles of boulders, coughing up plumes of smoke that smelled like a freeway accident.

In most towns, that would get you arrested. But Mr. Olson had traveled 4½ hours to an off-road park here that caters to all-terrain vehicle, Jeep and dirt-bike owners looking to tear around nature without fear of a trespassing ticket. "It's a lot of fun," says the mechanic from Colfax, Wis.

Area BFE in Moab, UtahThere's a new refuge for people whose hobbies run on the wrong side of public opinion: parks -- often on private property -- where guys (it's mostly men, but wives and girlfriends often come along for the ride) can rip up the earth without fear of the enviro cops. Over the last decade, the federal government and a number of states have banned off-roading from millions of acres of public land. Yet these vehicles are increasingly popular -- sales of ATVs over the past 10 years have almost tripled. That gap has created a business opportunity for entrepreneurs and local governments.

The parks -- there are now dozens, from South Carolina to Utah -- are gaining traction just as the off-road industry is rolling out a new generation of tricked-out vehicles: from buggies that climb up 80-degree inclines to the Quadski, a jet ski that converts into an ATV on land. The Rough Terrain Vehicle, a $30,000 buggy-like contraption from Rhino Off-Road Industries, has waist-high tires and roll bars across the roof. "Think of it as the child of a monster truck and an ATV," says Howard Pearl, Rhino's president.

Many of the off-road parks set up picnic tables and Port-o-Potties along the trails, which have names like "Axle Trap" and "Undertaker." Some offer ramps for trucks to attempt 50-foot leaps -- one park owner calls them "Dukes of Hazzard" jumps -- while others tout mogul runs of six-foot-high dirt piles and open fields for spinning donuts. At Iron Range Off-Highway Vehicle Recreation Area, the abandoned ore-mine-turned-offroad-park in Gilbert, a number of ATVers use "snorkels," or plastic extensions that allow vehicles to operate under water. The devices are banned on public lands in the state because submerged ATVs can pollute streams. Dave Schotzko, assistant manager of Iron Range, says that's not an issue at his park: "You can't really harm a gravel pit," he says.

The nation's off-roaders still spend most of their time on public forest and desert lands. But designated parks are increasingly an option, particularly for off-roaders in urban centers. Whether the parks are owned by private individuals or purchased by state and local governments to attract tourists, the goal is the same: to give off-roaders a place where they can escape the complaints about noise pollution, tire tracks and frightened animals.

In West Virginia, the government runs the Hatfield-McCoy trail system, a 500-mile network stitched together on land owned mostly by coal, timber and gas companies. Some 24,000 off-roaders used the park last year, compared with around 4,000 in 2001. In South Carolina, a pair of entrepreneurs have sunk $8 million into Carolina Adventure World, which is set to open early next year with cabins and a handful of yurts. Then there's Jeremy Parriott. The dirt biker and several partners paid around $1 million for 320 acres in the Utah desert, renamed it "Area BFE," and now let bikers and off-roaders ride free.

Iron Range Off-Highway Vehicle Recreation Area in Gilbert, Minn.For off-roaders, crackups are part of the thrill. At Iron Range, the same weekend Mr. Olson was tooling around, another Chevy Blazer tried to navigate a steep incline of mud, and tumbled down sideways, caving in the roof and ripping off a tire. A Hummer got stuck halfway up another long hill, its tires spitting gravel, and had to be bailed out with a winch.

The parks, though a popular outlet among off-roaders, aren't universally embraced. While the sales of former timber farms and other big plots provide an opportunity for well-heeled off-roaders to set up a ATV park -- they also provide an opening for conservation groups eager to rid those areas of "consumptive uses" like hunting and motorized recreation.

While the park in Gilbert was proposed in the mid-1990s -- at the time, the land was a popular spot to (illegally) dump old couches and refrigerators -- it took several years to realize. That's because of noise complaints, a lawsuit and the discovery of a rare fern on the stripped iron land.

It took Richard Mull four years to open his off-road park, Brushy Mountain Motorsports Park in Taylorsville, N.C. The first time Mr. Mull, a real-estate developer, tried to buy and rezone land, his plans prompted a big enough backlash, including threats of sabotage if the park were opened, that he abandoned the project without a fight. "We basically walked away from a year's time and $25,000 and started again," he says.

The off-road community argues that dedicated parks minimize the environmental harm. Trailpass, a network of private trails mainly in the Eastern U.S., says that its 1,000-plus miles of trails are built with bridges, to keep riders out of natural creeks, and switchbacks that counter erosion. Mr. Mull says he won't let in tires with more than a 3/4-inch tread because they rip up his trails, which he then has to pay to repair.

The off-road park clientele ranges from kids to retirees, and the trails are set up to appeal to novices as well as thrill seekers. The parks have borrowed the ski industry's green-blue-black nomenclature to rate the difficulty level of trails.

PLAYING DIRTY

 

A snapshot of some of the off-road parks that are popping up.

NAME PRICE DISTINGUISHING FEATURE COMMENT Area BFE

Moab, Utah Free Ramps are set up for a 50-foot leap -- the owner calls it the "Dukes of Hazzard" jump This park, on a uranium deposit in the Utah desert, is one of the more extreme in the country; among other tricks, it has metal railings that cars jump onto and slide down Hatfield-McCoy

Lyburn, W.Va. $19/day ATV riders can hit a McDonald's drive-through because the trail system runs through some small towns Among the country's largest off-roading networks, with 500 miles of trails spread over four counties in southern West Virginia Durhamtown Plantation

Union Point, Ga. $25/day ATVers have to share the park with hunters, anglers and skateboarders The 8,000 acres are deep with history, from remnants of moonshine stills to a cemetery that holds plantation families and slaves Paragon Adventure Park

Hazleton, Pa. $25 to $35 Off-road classes ($500) teach truck owners how to wade through water -- and recover their truck when it gets stuck The park has everything from green trails ("Turtle Trail") to trails that can't be accessed without a park guide ("Death Valley")

ATVs have also come under fire for their safety record, especially when the riders are children. The Consumer Product Safety Commission estimated that in 2004, the latest data available, ATVs were the cause of 136,100 emergency-room-treated injuries, up 48% from 2000. Mike Mount, spokesman for the Specialty Vehicle Institute of America, the trade association for the ATV industry, says that because of the big increase in ATV usage, the injury rate has remained flat for the last couple of years. "We still want that number to go down," he says.

For towns like Gilbert, off-roading represents a chance to diversify an economy hit hard by the decline in mining jobs. The town's population has plummeted about 30% over the past two decades, to 1,800. The off-road park has spawned some new businesses in town. Fun Time Rental, which rents out ATVs and snowmobiles, runs out of stock most weekends. Across the street, Milt Lerfald, a laid-off miner, used savings and a bank loan to build a $500,000 car wash that caters to all the trucks and trailers that now pass through town.

But others are using their money to keep offroaders away. Roxanne Quimby, former CEO of cosmetics and candle company Burt's Bees, has spent just under $40 million since 2000 buying some 70,000 acres of forest land. She has shut down dozens of miles of ATV and snowmobile trails. For riders that ignore the new mandates, Ms. Quimby has erected gates, destroyed bridges and culverts that patch together trails, and laid boulders across access roads. "It's bad news for them when I buy a piece of property," says Ms. Quimby.

 

That's a Nationally distributed Newspaper based in New York, with an article about MN's ONLY public ORV land.

 

What they don't tell you, is the Iron Range Off-Highway Recreation Area (IROHVA) in Gilbert was built on an abandoned iron ore mine that closed down operations in 1985, and was opened as an OHV area in 2002 (but, somehow, it's the OHV park's fault that the population of the town has gone down in the last 20 years ). And in 1999 when the MN4WDA and other groups went in to prepare the old strip mine to become an ORV park, they removed at least 5 burned and mangled hulks of cars, some 10,000 tires, garbage by the ton, and hundreds of appliances. All on volunteer time. And yet we're the ones destroying the environment?!

 

 

Go ahead, search the internet. any databases you might have, anything, for articles about ORV use. I guarantee you will find almost 100% ANTI-ORV articles. The only decent pro-ORV article was an editorial published in the Duluth News Tribune last June. Let me try to find it. It was very well written, and the response to it is almost comical.

 

 

So join your states 4WD Association or similar, get involved, go to rallies, do EVERYTHING you can! for example, the same guy that wrote the editorial I mentioned (also a good friend of mine) took the necessary steps to start an open house at the IROHVRA, the second Saturday of May the registration sticker is not required to get in, just pass the tech inspection and you're gold. I intend to be there again this year, guiding trail rides, showing people that there's something there for everyone, and that this can be a positive experience.

 

The guys at MNOHV.org started a small rally on the steps of the State Capital building last fall as the first step towards some positive PR work in MN. We had 3 speakers from the State congress, as well as a worker from the ORV area. It made an appearance in the local TV news 3 times in the few days to follow. You can view clips of those news reports on their website below.

 

Some good sites to check out positive MN Offroading:

http://www.mnohv.org

http://www.mn4wda.com

http://www.crawl4cure.org

http://www.nsw4x4.com local offroad group, I'm a member of. Check out the 'About Us' and Rules links.

 

I think that's all for now....

[Numbchux]

As if that wasn't enough, Dave Westerburg just emailed me a copy of his editorial last June. This is a great guy, he single-handedly made it possible to open a State Park for an open house one day a year (took a year and a half...), and is now spending almost all of his free time working on a YJ that they plan to donate to the MS Society's Crawl 4 the Cure to be raffled off. complete frame-off restoration + lift, lockers and tires. AND, is trying to loose 70 lbs at about $6 a pound for the same event this summer. That's above and beyond the things he mentions in the following article. He has some great things to say, and the North Shore Wheelers (myself included) are behind him 100%.

 

Why can't I use the forest, too?

 

For those who didn't follow the state Legislature this winter, I have

some news. There were amendments to the fish and wildlife bills in

the House and the Senate that would have denied access to

recreational opportunities in state forests. Thankfully, the measures

died in committee. However, because they were passed on the floor, I

believe the possibility remains the amendments could be reintroduced

in coming years.

 

I'm an environmentalist. I care about what happens in our forests as

much as the next guy. In fact, I care more than most. I grew up the

son of a Department of Natural Resources forester. I was probably the

only kid in kindergarten who could tell you how much wood was in a

cord, the difference between a red pine and a white pine, and how to

determine the age of a tree without cutting it down.

 

I've probably planted more trees than most members of the Sierra

Club. I've probably cleared and maintained more miles of trails than

any member of the Minnesotans for Responsible Recreation. I've hauled

tons of garbage out of the woods, only to be told I wasn't welcome in

the woods with my Jeep.

 

I understand there are areas in state forests with rare plants, and I

don't want to go there. I know there are wetlands that could be

damaged if I were to drive my Jeep into them. I don't want to go

there, either. I know in some areas my tires may cause erosion. I

won't go there.

 

But I'd like to be able to take my wife and son on a drive along a

trail and have a picnic lunch. Why can't I do that? There are areas

in our forests where trails exist that can sustain travel by a 4x4

like mine. Why can't I use those areas?

 

I understand there are people out there who enjoy the peace and quiet

of the forest; I do, too. But I also enjoy driving my Jeep along a

tight trail under the canopy of trees. And I understand that my Jeep

can disturb the peace and quiet of other people. So if we, as off-

road enthusiasts, were given areas within forests designated for our

use, people seeking peace and quiet could avoid us and we could all

enjoy the recreational opportunities our state forests provide.

 

No one group should have more rights to the forests than others. The

forests are public lands, and if we can find areas where we have a

minimal impact, why can't we use those areas?

 

To just throw a blanket ban over the forests is not the answer.

 

I know there's people in the off-roading community with little regard

for the environment. They have fun tearing up the countryside, and

some even take pride in the damage they do. We in the off-road

community are working hard to educate these people that what they are

doing is harmful and that their behavior will not be tolerated. The

Minnesota 4 Wheel Drive Association spends thousands of dollars each

year on education and law enforcement to prevent these incidents. I'm

just as upset about them as members of the Minnesotans for

Responsible Recreation. It sickens me to see an area where people

have taken off-road vehicles and caused damage to the environment. I

think they should be punished.

 

But is it fair to take trails away from me, a law-abiding person? No.

Are hiking trails taken away when hikers venture off and create new

trails and cause erosion? No.

 

I've worked in state parks and for the Minnesota Conservation Corps,

and I've seen damage caused by hikers, bikers, fisherman and

horseback riders when they don't stick to the existing trail systems.

 

Taking trails away only leads to more illegal activity.

 

People need places to recreate. Yes, there is an off-highway vehicle

park in Gilbert. But that's only a small area for a lot of people who

enjoy off-roading. Minnesota Department of Natural Resources policy

states it will provide outdoor recreation opportunities for all

Minnesotans.

 

Well, I am a resident of Minnesota and I want to keep my recreational

opportunities. I want to keep my access to the state forests.

 

And it isn't just my Jeep some want to ban. It's all 4x4 vehicles.

Hunters, trappers, fisherman and berry pickers: If you want to keep

your access to the forests, too, let your voices be heard -- before

your recreational opportunities are taken away. Contact your

representatives and let them know you want to have responsible access

to public lands.

 

Remember that was last June...

 

and the rather comical response that was published a few days later (keep in mind, these are the kinds of people who are working against us....and unfortunately have about 10x the power that we do....ALWAYS remember that)

 

4-by-4 forest fun compounds climate crisis

 

David Westerberg's Local View commentary June 4, "Off-road enthusiasts deserve access to state forests," claimed that 4-by-4, off-road users deserve access to state forests. He seemed to think state forests are places for off-roading. He even suggested such recreation is sustainable, family fun.

 

Unfortunately, he ignored that we are slipping into a deeper energy crisis. The U.S. uses more than 21 million barrels of oil a day while producing a mere 6 million barrels per day. China is No. 2 on the planet, using 6 million barrels. But Westerberg seemed to want to speed us into higher prices at the pump: Use it up now and maybe kill some critters in the process.

 

Westerberg does not speak for all off-roaders. It is hard to tell which is bigger, his ignorance of the situation or his arrogance at the prospect of "deserving" trails in forests. It's likely he doesn't believe in global warming and has no sense that his recreational exhaust could help trigger the sleeping giants of climate change. That would include a loss of sea ice, glacial melting, halting the thermalhaline ocean currents or melting methane hydrates. To suggest he cannot enjoy a forest except while in his Jeep hints at a delusional addiction.

 

The real irony is he likely doesn't see his wasting of oil products as being linked to national security. U.S. oil production peaked in 1970. Now we import more every year. And we must export U.S. dollars to support our habits. That's why it seems likely Westerberg doesn't perceive a connection between his recreational four-wheeling and the war in Iraq.

 

I suppose it would not help if he learned the administration has plans for attacking Iran. But heck, wongleflute Cheney may be trying to finds some new trails for Westerberg to enjoy.

 

BILL MITTLEFEHLDT

DULUTH

 

and what Dave posted on our forum about that:

 

Ironically in the paper on the same day was a picture of me working on trails in West Duluth on National Trails day.

 

But wait...there's more:

 

4-by-4s have small impact on environment

 

This is in response to the June 12 letter, "Four-by-four forest fun compounds climate crisis." As a matter of fact, David Westerberg, the author of a June 4 Local View commentary, "Off-road enthusiasts deserve access to state forests," does speak for all responsible off-roaders. Westerberg's commentary was circulated and celebrated not only among the Minnesota Four Wheel Drive Association but the United Four Wheel Drive Association, representing off-roaders nationwide. About half of United Four Wheel Drive Association members surveyed reported using their four-by-four for hunting, fishing, farming or ranching, or other forms of employment. So one can see that support for Westerberg's commentary goes beyond just the recreational trail users.

 

As for the stretch to suggest a climate crisis or, more heinously, that we kill animals while on the trail, the writer of the June 12 letter showed he knows little about this form of recreation. A Jeep while on a forest trail travels an average of just 3 mph. For eight hours of trail riding, that's only about 24 miles, less than many people spend commuting to and from work or running around town doing errands. Jeeps and other vehicles used on forest trails have no worse fuel economy than SUVs on the highway. As for greenhouse gases, also mentioned in the June 12 letter, studies show more are released from lawn mowers and weed whackers than from cars. Eliminating off-road truck recreation would have a very small impact on energy use and greenhouse gas emissions.

 

Instead of attacking the few miles of off-road motorized recreation and the truly small role it plays in global warming and national security, the letter writer should have called on everyone to make small changes that add up, like driving a hybrid or biodiesel-powered vehicle, or changing to fluorescent bulbs, or installing solar panels and wind generators, or landscaping to minimize mowing.

 

ALEXANDRA WOODMANSEE

GLENCOE, MINN.

 

The writer is land use director for the Minnesota Four Wheel Drive Association and a delegate to the United Four Wheel Drive Association.

 

I'll probably find more....

[NoahDL88]

Don't let this get around, but i heard that if we let just one small south east asian country fall to communism, the entire world will go pinko commie.

 

 

I'm just sayin

[[HTi]Johnson]

Don't let this get around, but i heard that if we let just one small south east asian country fall to communism, the entire world will go pinko commie.

 

 

I'm just sayin

 

HAH

 

I'm just saying that, at least in Oregon, we have another thing going against us...hippies. They like their forests. But we also have another thing going for us: The fact that ORV has a decent chunk of the economy. There's a town called Florence, they have a population of 9000 and when labor day hits, over 12000 people are there for the ORV park called South Jetty. That's a pretty big chunk of business that would go down the drain if ORV was banned here.

[Numbchux]

Don't let this get around, but i heard that if we let just one small south east asian country fall to communism, the entire world will go pinko commie.

 

 

I'm just sayin

 

pretty funny. I'm glad you think this is a joke.

 

 

I never said the same thing will happen, but if it gets banned in one state, you can bet that a handful of others will immediately followed, and dozens of others will be effected.

[NoahDL88]

Of course its not a joke, but you're making a mountain out of a mole hill. too bad that you have the ORV Gestapo in MN, but i don't think that the other 49 states will be looking at the great and powerful MN for precident on ORV usage.

[Scott in Bellingham]

Johnson'] we also have another thing going for us: The fact that ORV has a decent chunk of the economy. There's a town called Florence' date=' they have a population of 9000 and when labor day hits, over 12000 people are there for the ORV park called South Jetty. That's a pretty big chunk of business that would go down the drain if ORV was banned here.[/quote']

 

I really like Oregons ORV set up , Its easy to get a ORV permit and they have a lot of ORV sites you can play at, we will be heading out to Sandlake again this year around the 4th July for a few days

[Qman]

pretty funny. I'm glad you think this is a joke.

 

 

I never said the same thing will happen, but if it gets banned in one state, you can bet that a handful of others will immediately followed, and dozens of others will be effected.

 

The biggest difference I can see is that your state and it's residents got a late start on this whole issue. The NW ORV/OHV community has been governing itself for years. We still have issues as well. It isn't all about Minnesota and then the rest of the U.S. looking to follow suit. The "green" group doesn't understand that we go in and clean up the area's. Groom the trails. Rebuild bridges, build and provide signage and education for all.

 

This issue needs to stop being us against them and start being everyone for the cooperative use of the environment. Most of the wheelers I have ever met are responsible users and clean up as they go. That has always been our club motto as well.

 

The answer may lie in private land ownership. Maybe even clubs joining together and buying the lands and maintaining them. Attend a local rally and speak your mind logically and maturely to your own politicians. It is the only way to keep the lands open and accessible to all.

[Numbchux]

The biggest difference I can see is that your state and it's residents got a late start on this whole issue. The NW ORV/OHV community has been governing itself for years. We still have issues as well. It isn't all about Minnesota and then the rest of the U.S. looking to follow suit. The "green" group doesn't understand that we go in and clean up the area's. Groom the trails. Rebuild bridges, build and provide signage and education for all.

 

This issue needs to stop being us against them and start being everyone for the cooperative use of the environment. Most of the wheelers I have ever met are responsible users and clean up as they go. That has always been our club motto as well.

 

Very well said. unfortunately, that hasn't happened yet, so we still have to be careful. But that is the #1 purpose of the MNOHV.org group. and since it started this last summer, we've made some HUGE steps.

 

btw...MNOHV.org was created by former Subaru owner and USMB regular MorganM.

 

The answer may lie in private land ownership. Maybe even clubs joining together and buying the lands and maintaining them. Attend a local rally and speak your mind logically and maturely to your own politicians. It is the only way to keep the lands open and accessible to all.

 

unfortunately, Minnesota has even taken steps to make private ORV park virtually impossible. I don't understand the details, but there used to be a place in southern MN that was privately owned but available to the public, and he's been shut down.

 

although those of us in the North Shore Wheelers have a meeting this weekend, and one of the topics is getting the ball rolling on our own private wheeling spot....