transmission compatibility

[mnwolftrack]

Keep in mind you can always make an offer on a transmission. I got $50 off mine after I got their total price with shipping. You could always pick up the transmission yourself if it's not a long drive. In my case, it was 300 miles one way, and for $75, I couldn't pass up the shipping.

 

A 30 to 90 day parts-only warranty was pretty much standard on all the yards I called when I searched for a transmission last month.

 

If your transmission is basically the same as mine, you will want to consider replacing the front output shaft seal, rear output shaft seal, and goofy torque converter shaft graphite seal. These 3 seals cost me $30 from the dealer and are not available aftermarket as far as I know. I also purchased a rear main seal but decided not to replace it. There was a small oil leak on the oil seperator plate, and I just resealed that. After refilling with about 9 quarts of ATF at about $7 per gallon, I had it all done myself for about $550+$30+14=$594 for a replacement used transmission with 53k on it.

[eagleb]

Keep in mind you can always make an offer on a transmission. I got $50 off mine after I got their total price with shipping. You could always pick up the transmission yourself if it's not a long drive. In my case, it was 300 miles one way, and for $75, I couldn't pass up the shipping.

 

A 30 to 90 day parts-only warranty was pretty much standard on all the yards I called when I searched for a transmission last month.

 

If your transmission is basically the same as mine, you will want to consider replacing the front output shaft seal, rear output shaft seal, and goofy torque converter shaft graphite seal. These 3 seals cost me $30 from the dealer and are not available aftermarket as far as I know. I also purchased a rear main seal but decided not to replace it. There was a small oil leak on the oil seperator plate, and I just resealed that. After refilling with about 9 quarts of ATF at about $7 per gallon, I had it all done myself for about $550+$30+14=$594 for a replacement used transmission with 53k on it.

 

 

They are on the other side of the state of OR, a couple hundred miles. Shipping is only $50, I'm sure I could try to negotiate a bit seeing as how they've had the trans for a couple years.

The trans I'm looking at has 73k, and would cost 499 with shipping.

Sadly, I am not confident on my engine/trans removal skills, so I will have to take the car to SIR for the swap.

The trans does seem like a good deal, and I might just be able to wait a while longer, buy the seals and duty C (just in case), then buy the trans and have it installed.

I wouldn't mind finding a lower miles trans, but that seems like the holy grail for a 96 outback.

Unless someone chimes in and tells me NOT to proceed, then I think I'll head down the transmission replacement road.

 

Just out of curiosity, what has been the level of satisfaction for people who've replaced their trans with used units?

I'm running with a new HG, and I'm hoping with the used trans I can extend my outback for many more years and miles (at least until I trade up).

[mnwolftrack]

Hard to pass up $50. I personally found very few transmissions with under 75k. Typical mileage was around 100k. I paid $550 to my door for mine and felt I got a good deal. I found perhaps one transmission with 34k and one with a reported 3k, but they were VERY expensive and I passed on those. I would have bought one from Rich's with 75k for around $300 plus s/h, but the shipping made it a wash.

 

For me, I just wanted something that was similar to the mileage my car already had, or less.

 

I only have a few hundred miles on my car with the new transmission, but I am quite satisfied. The salvage yard pulled, packaged, and shipped my transmission from their donor within 24 hours, and I had it in within 2 days of the order. I couldn't have been happier.

 

If you buy something used, make sure the mileage of the transmission as taken and reported by the yard is documented on the receipt so that you can save it for your records (in case you ever sell), and make sure you get some sort of a parts warranty "just in case." As I mentioned before, 30-90 days parts-only warranties (for free) seemed to be the norm with salvage yards.

 

I can't speak for others, but I have been watching this board for almost a year know. I can only recall reading a few stories of people receiving "bad" used transmissions from salvage yards. I read those posts while I was searching threads for torque bind problems. Before I bought our 1st '98 OBW almost a year ago (NOT the '98 OBW I just replaced the transmission in), I test drove several OBW's and at least half of them had torque bind. I wanted to find out what the cause(s) were, and I remember reading that people bought new (used) transmissions only to have the problem still occur, or encounter a new problem. Needless to say, it wasn't anything that scared me away from buying something used. I've been working on cars since 1991 and have had to deal with many different yards. In the early days, there was no Internet as we know it today. I was stuck with going to the 3 local yards, and that was it (and I often had to bend over for them!). Now with the Internet, this board, car-part.com, junkyarddog.com, etc.... I hardly ever go to the local yards because they aren't the best price.

 

For just under $600 I fixed my car's problem, put a transmission in with less than half the miles on the car, and did not empty my wallet out to a local transmission rebuild shop. To me, it wasn't worth putting in up to almost $4000 for a new freshly built transmission that could last another 300k+ miles, because likely the rest of the car won't (accident, selling, other major repairs, etc...). I have also had bad experiences with these transmission shops. Actually, one local shop, and it was relatives that had the experience. The transmission was "going" on my dad's toyota pickup, and a local shop rebuilt the whole thing. 1000 miles in to a 2000 mile trip to alaska, the "new" transmission starts spewing fluid out the front output shaft seal. Coincidentailly, it failed in Oregon. Anyway, we had to spend a few extra days in Oregon while the transmission was pulled (it only had 2000 miles on it) and found out the shop that rebuilt it put the wrong seal in it. Since we were 1000 miles from home and the original shop that did the work, the original shop couldn't do the repair and wouldn't reimburse us for the work done in Oregon.

 

Then a few years later, my sister brought her Toyota 4Runner in to this same local shop (I warned her not to because of the previous story). She did anyway, and they of course recommended a complete rebuild. The same thing happened! The only difference was, my dad's truck had a 5 speed manual and my sister's had an automatic and was about 5 years newer.

 

So then my step-dad brings his dodge to the SAME local shop and he of course needs a complete rebuild too. I also tried to warn him but no luck again. We're waiting to see how that story ends....

 

I guess the moral of the story is that paying big bucks on a "new" transmission does not always guarantee reliability.

[idosubaru]

subaru transmissions overall are very reliable. even the automatics have a very good track record. i'd go used and always, always change your ATF often. if torque bind scares you, ask the yard what their policy is and print out some pages from here documenting the prevalence of it in case they ask. just ask what they'd do if you install the trans and it has torque bind....this might help negotiate a lower price as well. junk yards don't have set prices like someone already mentioned, they can flex.

 

keep your tires matching and change your fluid often.

 

make sure your mechanic knows the trickiness of seating the torque converter that final 1/4" when installing the trans. it's very easy to miss and bolting it up like that will ruin your trans...that has happened a number of times. not good.

[mnwolftrack]

x2 about what gary said concerning seating the torque converter. Luckily, I was overly paranoid about it and didn't find it too difficult to get seated. You (or the mechanic) can look at the end of the torque converter shaft and shine a flashlight in the hole in the front of the transmission and see the two "teeth" that are supposed to slide into the two slots on the end of the torque converter shaft. This is the last 1/4" that he is talking about.

[eagleb]

I just filled out the junkyarddog form, and have received many a reply. One from midwest auto recycling looks promising, others not so much.

I'm fairly sure SIR has done trans swaps before, and the owner is an active member of the board.

I'm about to start haggling on a couple of these transmissions... wish the greenhorn luck...

 

 

eagle

 

btw, mnwolftrack, what part of MN are you from? My ladyfriend is from just south of the cities, and has some family aound mille lacs. I was there to experience the non-white christmas a couple months ago, pretty strange.

[mnwolftrack]

I live about 2 1/2 hours north of the Twin Cities. We had anywhere from 0" to 7" of snow a couple months ago depending on how close you were to Lake Superior. The nearly brown Christmas here was definately odd. However, within the last couple of weeks we've been socked with 35+" of snow in two snowstorms (one was a full-blown blizzard).

 

Many of the junkyarddog responders appear to be automated responses from yards fishing for anything. You'll probably even see the same "form letter" E-mail sent to you from different yards. They basically say, "hi, we have your part, didn't pay attention to what you are looking for, and you should call us for a price and buy from us because we're great for the following 10 reasons." I responded to the same place 3 times telling them they kept sending me the same form letter, and they just kept responding with the same form! Funny part is, they kept saying they had my engine in stock (too bad I was looking for a transmission). There were plenty of legit responses though too.

[eagleb]

Another question...

 

Transmission hasn't given me cause for concern lately, so I haven't purchased one yet, which brings me to the point.

 

I've seen Nipper's previous posts stating that the transmissions produced after 97 1/2 were updated (sorry, don't remember all the specifics of the updates). Would it be beneficial for me to purchase a used 97 1/2, 98, or 99 AT and matching TCU as opposed to a used 96 AT?

[johnceggleston]

i think in 99, when they went to the phase 2 trans, the impreza and the legacy 2.2 were the same. but i'm not positive. but these years are too late for your match.

 

i'd stick to the legacy / outback models. 2.5L car is preferred, 96 - 98 (some early 99). if you get a trans out of a 2.2L car, you will need the rear differential, (unless it just happens to be a 96 2.2L outback with the trans # TZ102Z2ABA.)

 

these trans should fit:

TZ102Z2ABA = 96 outback (2.2L)

TZ102Z2ABA = 96 outback (2.5L)..... same trans.

 

TZ102Z2CBA = 97 outback...................may need TCU

TZ102Z2CAA = 97 legacy LSi...............may need TCU

TZ102Z2CCA = 97 legacy GT...............may need TCU

 

TZ102Z2DBA = 98 outback (early 99).....may need TCU

TZ102Z2DCA = 98 legacy GT...............may need TCU

 

 

TZ102ZABAA + 96 legacy (all 2.2L cars except outback)........will need rear diff, maybe TCU

TZ102ZACAA + 97 legacy (2.2L)...........will need rear diff, maybe TCU

TZ102ZACAA + 98 legacy (2.2L)...........will need rear diff, maybe TCU

 

the 95 legacy 2.2L trans may work, but there were some other changes that took place that year so unless it was free, i'd stick with 96 - 98.

TZ102ZAAAA + 95 legacy (2.2L)...........will need rear diff, probably TCU

 

 

i'm replying to this this distant thread because i have learned something that's related that i think is very interesting.

 

it is my opinion that 97 leg auto trans and 97 outback trans (96, 95, 98, early 99 as well) are identical except for the final drive ratios, ie: the differential.

 

i bought a "good" used 96 leg GT auto trans (TZ102Z2AAA, 2nd '2' means 2.5L) this week because i wanted the rear extention housing for my son's 95 leg 2.2 with torque bind. i got the trans cheap (75$) because the bell housing had a 2" X 6" piece broken off of it at the lower right mounting bolt. i got it home and realized a had a good front diff & bell housing on a bad 97 outback trans (TZ102Z2CAB) from another earlier swap. so i decided to see if i could swap the diff & bell housings from one to another.

 

well seperating the front diff from the trans could not have been easier. 8 bolts and 4 nuts tap tap tap and it came apart. the gasket material between the 2 was a silicon type material i'm not exactly sure what, no gasket per se.

 

so if you believe , like i do, that the legacy and out back trans are the same, and if the front diff is as easy to attach as it was to remove, then this doubles the number of auto trans out there that will fit in your car. and instead of buying the "matching" rear diff when you buy a 'not quite perfect matching' trans, it may be easier to swap your existing front diff onto the new used trans instead of swapping the rear diff. you also save the cost of the rear diff.

 

from the research i've done the difference betwen the legacy final drive and the outback final drive is the ring gear. 2.5 L engines use the ring gear with 40 teeth, pinion w/ 9 = 4.44, the legacy uses a 37 tooth ring gear with the standard 9 tooth pinion = 4.11.

 

anyway, i hope you find this information helpful. again, removing the front diff was easy. i see no reason it would not also be easy to re-attach it. this means any matching year trans will work in your car, you just have to swap the front diff.

 

let me know what you think.

john

[johnceggleston]

i also think that most all of the rear extention housings are interchangeable. this means if you don't have torque bind on your existing bad trans, and you buy a legacy trans for your outback, you can swap both your front diff and your rear extention housing onto your 'new' good used trans and go!!

[steamin53]

i think in 99, when they went to the phase 2 trans, the impreza and the legacy 2.2 were the same. but i'm not positive. but these years are too late for your match.

 

i'd stick to the legacy / outback models. 2.5L car is preferred, 96 - 98 (some early 99). if you get a trans out of a 2.2L car, you will need the rear differential, (unless it just happens to be a 96 2.2L outback with the trans # TZ102Z2ABA.)

 

these trans should fit:

TZ102Z2ABA = 96 outback (2.2L)

TZ102Z2ABA = 96 outback (2.5L)..... same trans.

 

TZ102Z2CBA = 97 outback...................may need TCU

TZ102Z2CAA = 97 legacy LSi...............may need TCU

TZ102Z2CCA = 97 legacy GT...............may need TCU

 

TZ102Z2DBA = 98 outback (early 99).....may need TCU

TZ102Z2DCA = 98 legacy GT...............may need TCU

 

 

TZ102ZABAA + 96 legacy (all 2.2L cars except outback)........will need rear diff, maybe TCU

TZ102ZACAA + 97 legacy (2.2L)...........will need rear diff, maybe TCU

TZ102ZACAA + 98 legacy (2.2L)...........will need rear diff, maybe TCU

 

the 95 legacy 2.2L trans may work, but there were some other changes that took place that year so unless it was free, i'd stick with 96 - 98.

TZ102ZAAAA + 95 legacy (2.2L)...........will need rear diff, probably TCU

 

i would suggest you search for year and model. find the best deal you can on a 96 outback trans. then look for a 96 GT trans and compare the cost. then look for a 96 LSi trans, then a 97 outback trans, then a 97 GT, then 98... etc. (i think you are going to find more outbacks out there than GT and LSi combined.)

 

there are lots of things to consider price, shipping cost, mileage. some yards sell them all for cheap 300$ while some charge 1200$ for one with 200k miles. but there are lots of them out there. i'd look for a 96 - 98 outback with 100k or less, close to home. since yours is still running (?), you have some time to shop and wait.

 

and finally, before you buy, ask for the model number off of the trans you are buying to double check.

 

 

 

I'm confused now. I just bought a transmission from a 96 Legacy AWD 2.5 engine manufactured 09/1995 with the transmission number

TZ102Z2AAA-CG to use as a donor to replace the transmission in my 96 Legacy Outback manufactured in 1996 with transmission number

TZ102Z2ABA-CH. Curiously the Holland interchange software identifies my trans as that of a 2.2L car (which it is not). A quick check with Emily at the good ole guys at CCR out in Denver produced a look-up result from a Subaru reference manual that states that the gear ratio of both of these is 4.44 and the conclusion is that it will work.

 

Now am I good to go or not? What's the verdict? What hasn't been addressed in the quoted data above is a 96 Legacy 2.5 AWD with the trans number TZ102Z2AAA-CG. I sure don't want to put this in if it's not the same ratio as the rear differential.

 

I believe I'll post this on my thread about torque bind too.

Steve

[eagleb]

Well I finally found a transmission (I think is) worth buying.

Off a front-end wrecked 98 legacy outback wagon limited.

appx 70k miles on the transmission.

 

Supposedly was working well when wrecked, person who has the car now said

they would have repaired the wreck damage, but original owner wanted 2.5L

for his sand rail. Can't say I blame him really.

 

So the trans has been sitting disconnected from the engine and exposed to the

elements for a little under a year (if I remember correctly).

The TCU is long gone, but I'm sure I can find a 98 TCU at a yard if I need to.

There is some surface rust on the torque converter.

 

I put a $50 down payment on the trans, and will be pulling it on Sat.

Should I be worried about the surface rust?

 

Since the engine compartment is basically empty, we're just going to drop

the front crossmember and pull the trans out from the bottom.

[Gloyale]

from the research i've done the difference betwen the legacy final drive and the outback final drive is the ring gear. 2.5 L engines use the ring gear with 40 teeth, pinion w/ 9 = 4.44, the legacy uses a 37 tooth ring gear with the standard 9 tooth pinion = 4.11.

 

I recently did a similar swap. In this thread

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=84923

It's not quite the same situation. I ended up using the whole Legacy trans with it's matched pinion and ring. All I swapped was the GL bell/diff housing, It is relavant to this discussion, as I had to remove the Legacy front diff and reinstall it in the GL housing, then install the GL housing back to the Legacy trans.

 

A few reason why this isn't an *easy* swap

 

1. The pinion shaft must be swapped with the differential. Ring gears with different #s of teeth have different pitches to them. They need a matched Pinion shaft. Just because to pinion have the same # of teeth, doesn't mean they are the same or interchangeable.

 

2. Adjusting the spacing for the pinion shaft, and differential is critical. Read the FSM to get the detail before attempting a swap like this

 

3. A new *seal tube* will need to be purchased. $44 at the dealer. Don't forget to reinstall the tiny rubber tube in on of the holes between trans case and diff housing.

 

It's very possible to do this swap, but unless you REALLY can't find a matched trans there is no reason. If you HAVE to use a trans with a different ratio, Swapping a rear diff is alot easier

[eagleb]

My dad and I pulled the transmission on Saturday.

Luckily the rain held off while we were working on the thing.

I'm taking the car in for the swap tonight.

I'll update this thread after the swap to let everyone know how well the 98 transmission works in the 96 outback.

[eagleb]

Well the transmission is in, but the mechanic says it's binding up.

Hopefully it's something easy, might have to swap rear extension housings.

So much for getting my car back today.

[eagleb]

Well the transmission is in, but the mechanic says it's binding up.

Hopefully it's something easy, might have to swap rear extension housings.

So much for getting my car back today.

 

Are the 96 OBW 2.5L AT and 98 OBW AT rear differentials the same gear ratio?

Evidently the binding seems to be worse than just the clutch packs.

What could the other causes be? Car is still at the mechanic, so I'm not sure of the specifics.

Any help is greatly appreciated, thank you.

[johnceggleston]

Are the 96 OBW 2.5L AT and 98 OBW AT rear differentials the same gear ratio?

yes,

96 - 99 2.5L A/T rear differentials are all 4.44

95 - 99 2.2L A/T rear differentials are all 4.11

 

96 - 99 2.5L M/T rear differentials are all 4.11

95 - 99 2.2L M/T rear differentials are all 3.9

 

there is an endwrench article describing how to check for matching front and rear diffs.

 

something like:

unplug the connector to the trans,

jack up one side of the car, (both wheels)

put the trans in neutral with hand brake off

start the car

now when you turn the rear tire by hand the front tire should match it turn for turn.

 

this procedure locks the trans in 4WD so the wheels front and rear will turn exactly the same. it may not work on a limited slip differential.

[eagleb]

I thought the ratios were the same. Thanks for confirming.

If the problem isn't the rear diff (was working fine with the original trans),

then what would be causing such serious binding?

Clutch packs?

Duty C?

Could an improperly seated TC cause such binding?

 

Hopefully it'll get figured out soon. I miss my car.

[idosubaru]

If the problem isn't the rear diff (was working fine with the original trans),

then what would be causing such serious binding?

might want to start another thread, i'm not sure what happened here. improper seating of the torque converter won't cause torque bind.

 

i'd start a thread, i don't know what happened, what you did or what exactly you're experiecing. used trans? mileage? AT light blinking? did you install a FWD and see if the torque bind went away?

[eagleb]

New thread will be started (transmission swap problems).

 

Thanks for the help.