Kilroy Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 I got my Legacy back from AAMCO a few weeks ago ($3300 after all the BS I went thru, including a 3 hour charge for them to figure out that I needed a new TCU) and when I suddenly let off the gas at highway speeds I get a nasty vibration all the way back in the transmission, right under the shifter. I took it back to AAMCO and we took it for a test drive, the tech that was with me admitted there was a vibration there. While the car was in their shop (for 3 months!) I had a call from them and was told that the passenger side halfshaft needs replacing as it has some play in it. At that time I could see them for the scam artists they were and told them not to touch anything other than the #*%&@ transmission. So, now they told me that the play in the halfshaft could be creating the vibration. I replaced the halfshaft last weekend with a new one, still have same problem (and there was nothing wrong with the old halfshaft). While I was punching the roll pin out, I noticed that there were no way that halfshaft could have been removed during their transmission rebuild. The roll pin was mushroomed on one side and rusted right up. It was obvious that the roll pin had been there for years. Do the halfshafts have to be removed to do a transmission rebuild including replacing the torque converter with a rebuilt one? AWD Auto transmission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnwolftrack Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Yes, you have to remove the front axle shafts to get the transmission (and torque converter) out. I am literally replacing a transmission in my '98 OBW right now. I just came in for a pizza break after I got done removing the transmission completely about a half hour ago. If you left the axle shafts on, you've have to rip apart the front suspension (control arms, hubs, etc...) to take the axle shafts with the transmission. I've only removed one subi transmission, but I have no idea why someone would want to leave the axle shafts connected to the transmission (actually the front diff). All I did to pop the axle shafts off was (one side at a time) 1) jack vehicle up and remove the pins 2) remove the lower ball joint nuts 3) remove the center caps and remove the large nut on the end of the axle shaft) 4) pry the lower control arm down and away, then push the tire away just enough to slide the axle shaft out 5) then I put the lower ball joint stud back in the control arm 6) loosely put the nut on, then drop the vehicle back down (with no more front axle shaft). I had a little trouble with the axle shaft pins too (the hardest part of this job for me) and it took a while to find something that would go in the hole but not inside the pins themselves (and get jammed inside the pins making them tighter. The punches that I had were either too big or too small, so I ended up using an allen wrench to hammer on. I originally tried a small bolt, but it's threads would get mashed and it would slide inside the pin and get stuck. Regarding your particular problem, I am wondering if you (meaning AAMCO) didn't line the driveshaft up properly at the carrier bearing, or if the carrier bearing is worn, or if the carrier bearing mounting bracket is even tight. Whenever I've seen people complain about worn front axles on any car, it's always been related to torn boots, splattered grease everywhere, clicking noises and other strange sounds from the CV joints while turning (and as the CV's get worn, it does it while driving straight). Can you physically wiggle or shake the front axle shafts when they are fully installed? Another thought is that the transmission's rear rubber mount/pad is worn/loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 ok i dont yell often but... STOP GOING TO AAMACO !!!!!! What it sounds like is your carrier bearing and/or center universal joint is bad. Its easy enough to get under the car and shake it in all directions and look for play. Also inspect the rubber the bearing is mounted in as that may be bad too. Could they have caused it, not really. Could they have hastened it along, maybe. Is it worth not having the car for another 3 months to go back to then, NFW. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mnwolftrack Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Oh yes, forgot to mention U-joints that could be worn, as nipper said. Nipper--is there a certain phase or alignment that the driveshaft needs to be reconnected to the rear half of the driveshaft (at the 4 center 12mm bolts near carrier bearing) and a certain way it needs to be slid back into the transmission? I can say at least on other vehicles, not installing drive shaft halfs or slip shafts back correctly can certainly cause vibrations. In the case of a transmission being replaced completely, I wouldn't think it would be possible to slide the driveshaft into a new transmission if there are no reference marks to use. On other vehicles I work with, the "phase" or alignment of the driveshaft is determined by aligning zirk fittings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Oh yes, forgot to mention U-joints that could be worn, as nipper said. Nipper--is there a certain phase or alignment that the driveshaft needs to be reconnected to the rear half of the driveshaft (at the 4 center 12mm bolts near carrier bearing) and a certain way it needs to be slid back into the transmission? I can say at least on other vehicles, not installing drive shaft halfs or slip shafts back correctly can certainly cause vibrations. In the case of a transmission being replaced completely, I wouldn't think it would be possible to slide the driveshaft into a new transmission if there are no reference marks to use. On other vehicles I work with, the "phase" or alignment of the driveshaft is determined by aligning zirk fittings. Phase is important if you remove the driveshaft from the front universal saddle flange from the driveshaft. You have to unbolt the universal joint. Since the saddle stays on the carrier bearing, you always have your reference point. Now AAMACO being what they are, there is a chance that they may have done something differently, and got them out of phase. They really really have to go out of thier way to do this, as it requires dropping the entire driveshaft, and unbolting the flange (between the carrier bearing and the tranny). If they took down the driveshaft as one peice, they couldnt get it out of phase (as they are supposed to do), but then again it is AAMCO. Luckily its very obvious when you look under the car. The universal should line up with the other universals. nipper PS always a chance they put his driveshaft in someone elses car too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy Posted February 24, 2007 Author Share Posted February 24, 2007 ok i dont yell often but... STOP GOING TO AAMACO !!!!!! What it sounds like is your carrier bearing and/or center universal joint is bad. Its easy enough to get under the car and shake it in all directions and look for play. Also inspect the rubber the bearing is mounted in as that may be bad too. Could they have caused it, not really. Could they have hastened it along, maybe. Is it worth not having the car for another 3 months to go back to then, NFW. nipper I have no choice to go back to them if it is a transmission related problem, it is under warranty for the next year or 20,000 km. There was absolutely NO vibration in the car before I brought it to them. With the exception of the solenoid codes from the TCU and 2nd gear starting to slip, it ran perfectly. Therefore, before I am satisfied that the job was done right, I will continue to be a pain in their asses until I feel that any problems are corrected. I was damned near positive that the halfshafts had to be removed to get the torque converter out as I have removed 2 of these transmissions myself. They charged me for the rebuilt torque converter, which is why I posed the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 Do the halfshafts have to be removed to do a transmission rebuild including replacing the torque converter with a rebuilt one? AWD Auto transmission. Yes. The halfshafts have to come out. But they can be pulled without punching out the pin and disconnecting them from the axle stub. The stubs can be pulled out of the side of the tranny with the axles. This is how most cars half shafts come out, as they have no pins, and I doubt AAMCO bothered to pull the pins. So they probably just yanked emn out stub and all. The bad thing is that the little spring clips that hold the stubs into the Differential should be replaced before reinstall. It may be one of these stubs is not properly seated into the Diff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy Posted February 24, 2007 Author Share Posted February 24, 2007 Yes. The halfshafts have to come out. But they can be pulled without punching out the pin and disconnecting them from the axle stub. The stubs can be pulled out of the side of the tranny with the axles. This is how most cars half shafts come out, as they have no pins, and I doubt AAMCO bothered to pull the pins. So they probably just yanked emn out stub and all. The bad thing is that the little spring clips that hold the stubs into the Differential should be replaced before reinstall. It may be one of these stubs is not properly seated into the Diff. Thanks for the reply, this is the type of definitive information I need before I go back there and tear somebody's head off. Then I look like an rump roast for not knowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 he is right, but it is highly unlikely that they pulled the stub out with the axle. a transmission shop would knock the pin out and drop the trans. if they only replaced the torque converter, that can be done by pulling the engine, swapping converters and reinstalling the engine - and never touching the transmission. if i saw the pins never touched like you mentioned i would bet the transmission did not come out. but of course it would require some more looking around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 24, 2007 Share Posted February 24, 2007 he is right, but it is highly unlikely that they pulled the stub out with the axle. a transmission shop would knock the pin out and drop the trans. Why? They do so many cars all the time that come out as one piece. They probably didn't even notice the pins. You give AAMCO too much credit. They probably unbolted the knuckles to swing out first, and then the stubs just pulled out with the axle before they even looked at the inner end of the axle. if they only replaced the torque converter, that can be done by pulling the engine, swapping converters and reinstalling the engine - and never touching the transmission. There is no way in hell AAMCO pulled the engine. Again most of the cars they see, to service the tranny, you drop the tranny. Why would they deal with removing Radiator hoses, fuel lines, wiring, etc..? They have very nice Tranny jacks and lifts and for them dropping a tranny would be by far the easier way to go. if i saw the pins never touched like you mentioned i would bet the transmission did not come out. but of course it would require some more looking around. Although they may have done a crappy job, I doubt very much a national chain store would completely lie about what they did. If they billed for a torque converter, they probably replaced it. Espescially if you're original problems where remedied. For a small measure of scam protection, tell any shop before they start work to save all your old parts to show you. Don't let them give you crap about cores, they can return them later after you've looked at them. on another note, It is hard to believe that your Trans, Torque converter, and TCU went out all at once. I think they just did everything cause they couldn't figure out the real problem so they covered everything, and jacked up the bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Although they may have done a crappy job, I doubt very much a national chain store would completely lie about what they did. If they billed for a torque converter, they probably replaced it. Espescially if you're original problems where remedied. For a small measure of scam protection, tell any shop before they start work to save all your old parts to show you. Don't let them give you crap about cores, they can return them later after you've looked at them. Do a search on AAMCO on google. There are many many many many complaints about them, and many that are unresolved. They always lie, and are part of the reason that transmission shops have a bad reputation. It's a very rare instance when you go into an AAMCO shop and come out without them telling you you need a new transmission. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Do a search on AAMCO on google. There are many many many many complaints about them, and many that are unresolved. They always lie, and are part of the reason that transmission shops have a bad reputation. It's a very rare instance when you go into an AAMCO shop and come out without them telling you you need a new transmission. nipper +1 for AAMCO sucking. No doubt they ripped off the OP and screwed something up. But I still think they probably did change the TC. And the aparently unremoved roll pins don't give him evidenceThat they didn't. I repeat: tell any shop before they start work to save all your old parts to show you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy Posted March 4, 2007 Author Share Posted March 4, 2007 Phase is important if you remove the driveshaft from the front universal saddle flange from the driveshaft. You have to unbolt the universal joint. Since the saddle stays on the carrier bearing, you always have your reference point. Now AAMACO being what they are, there is a chance that they may have done something differently, and got them out of phase. They really really have to go out of thier way to do this, as it requires dropping the entire driveshaft, and unbolting the flange (between the carrier bearing and the tranny). If they took down the driveshaft as one peice, they couldnt get it out of phase (as they are supposed to do), but then again it is AAMCO.Luckily its very obvious when you look under the car. The universal should line up with the other universals. nipper PS always a chance they put his driveshaft in someone elses car too. I got the car up on ramps and gave the driveshaft a good thrashing about. It rotates about 1/4" by hand before being engaged and it does have some play front to back. It moves front to back within the rubber boots, but I believe it is supposed to have a little bit of play in it. Can anyone confirm this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 i'm not sure what you mean about 1/4" roatation before it engages. If it wasnt winter ild get under mine to check. What we are looking for is any pplay in the X or Y axis in comparison to the other half of the shaft. ALso any play in the same directions at the carrier bearing. Thewre really should be almost no front to rear play, since all the parts in question are firmly attached to the car. If the rear diff was mounted on springs then some play would be exceptable. I dont want to say its a bad carrier bearing just yet, but have someone else look at it (NOT AAMCO) to confirm. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy Posted March 4, 2007 Author Share Posted March 4, 2007 i'm not sure what you mean about 1/4" roatation before it engages. If it wasnt winter ild get under mine to check. What we are looking for is any pplay in the X or Y axis in comparison to the other half of the shaft. ALso any play in the same directions at the carrier bearing. Thewre really should be almost no front to rear play, since all the parts in question are firmly attached to the car. If the rear diff was mounted on springs then some play would be exceptable. I dont want to say its a bad carrier bearing just yet, but have someone else look at it (NOT AAMCO) to confirm. nipper What I mean by 1/4" is that I can rotate it a little bit before it stops, then 1/4" the other direction before it stops. I am grabbing at the front of the shaft and the entire shaft front to back rotates like that. The center connection seems to be very firmly connected to the front and rear shafts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Do the two shafts (before and after the carrier bearing) rotate in unison, or is there "slack" between the two of them? nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilroy Posted March 5, 2007 Author Share Posted March 5, 2007 Do the two shafts (before and after the carrier bearing) rotate in unison, or is there "slack" between the two of them? nipper The 2 shafts are rock solid, absolutely no slack between them when I twist the shaft or pull it front to back. As I stated, the only movement I can get out of the entire shaft is about 1/4" clockwise/counterclockwise and then I can't rotate it by hand anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 5, 2007 Share Posted March 5, 2007 The 2 shafts are rock solid, absolutely no slack between them when I twist the shaft or pull it front to back. As I stated, the only movement I can get out of the entire shaft is about 1/4" clockwise/counterclockwise and then I can't rotate it by hand anymore. ok than thats all good. What kind of condition is your tranny mount in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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