ericem Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 Main question is should i remove the rear housing? I was told by subaru that there is a filter in that area above the solenoid. And it can get clogged, and the fluid gets trapped in that area. But its like a 5-10second delay. Once warmed up its 5 seconds then the more i keep trying the sooner it kicks in. Then after driving for a few hours usually about 1 second or less. Seems like whenever its cold outside clutches just won't engage. The guy also said when the clutch was replaced he may have not shimmed it correctly(jeese forgot what he told me, i have it on paper somewhere) the fluid can get trapped in the clutch. He said he could remove the rear casing and for 2-3 hours of labour= $150-$300. For me he would probably do it for $200 and clear out the screen or properly shim the clutch, or both. And it will work he said. They did several tests with there computer(watched them) and all sensors are operating 100%. What should i try next? Before going ahead and let him do the job? Maybe that transmission fix stuff? Thanks. PS: CLUTCH AND SOLENOID were replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 er um, if he didnt shim it properly, its HIS problem not yours. Exaclty what have you had done to the car? And when ALso sensors dont really mean that much in an automatic, they need to put pressure gauges on the transmission and drive the car. What do you mena by a time delay, how can you tell? nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 No, the car was brought to subaru to get the problem inspected, but he said these things, and said to bring it back to where it was serviced, but i don't want to, and over there the guy wants to charge me $120 for a transmission flush, when he didn't even know what was wrong yet. But the guy who did the work hass no clue what he is talking about. And i what i mean by delay, is if i gun it in snow, takes time, then it engadges smoothly. But When the car is up in the air, you can oviously see that there is delay, and its not just the clutch slipping Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 OK i just wanted to make sure what the delay was. I never heard of nor read about a screen inside the tranny other then the pickup screen in the pan. There is a spool valve that may get gummed up. you can do the flush yourself in the driveway, 3 qts at a time do it 3 times (drain fill start put car through prnd321 repeate). The delay is odd. If you can get it in the snow, put the car in 1st and see what happens. This forces a 50/50 split. If it still delays its not the electronics. Since the clutches do grab it can be either the shimming or the spool valve. I know when I had mine rebuilt they had to match the shims up, and order them. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted February 25, 2007 Author Share Posted February 25, 2007 All i did was drain it once :-\ Can i try out that transmission fix stuff? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 25, 2007 Share Posted February 25, 2007 AHA you have to do it more then once. No you dont need the tranny fix stuff, yet. try the proper thing first, which is a repeated drain and fill. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 Hey, im kind of lazy to do the oil change a few times, and its still very very cold outside and its snowing like crazy. And it looks VERY VERY bad seeing a subaru barely make it up a hill with snow, and seeing a honda civic pass The whole way up the hill NO AWD, did even attempt, but if it was warm outside, it would work then, or if i was driving the car for over 30mins. Anyone got any suggestions on tranny fix stuff? Something they tried? Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 there is no tranny fix stuff for this. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 there is no tranny fix stuff for this. nipper oh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Not everything can be fixed by a magical can, especially if you like the rest of your transmission. There has been some succes with a conditioner when people have torquebind, which you dont have. You have AWD clutches that are shot and need to be replaced. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 Not everything can be fixed by a magical can, especially if you like the rest of your transmission. There has been some succes with a conditioner when people have torquebind, which you dont have. You have AWD clutches that are shot and need to be replaced. nipper they were replaced less then 5,000KM ago inlcluding the solenoid... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OB99W Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 AHA you have to do it more then once.[...] Agreed, although of course there's no guarantee that will fix the problem. Here's something I previously posted: Based on the full capacity of the 4EAT and typical drainage from the pan by just removing the plug (with the car level), I roughly calculated the percentage of old ATF replaced with new by multiple drain/fills. The following is in the form #-of-changes -- %-fresh-ATF: 1 -- 40% 2 -- 64% 3 -- 78% 4 -- 87% 5 -- 92% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 The guy also said when the clutch was replaced he may have not shimmed it correctly(jeese forgot what he told me, i have it on paper somewhere) the fluid can get trapped in the clutch. Well he didnt do something right, as i have never heard of anyone getting it fixed and it not working. He did something wrong, and you need to have him fix it (since he admited he goofed up) or get another opinion. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse001 Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 If it came back from the shop screwed up, I'd definatly send it back. I wouldn't screw with it as there's the possibility you could make matters worse. If that happens the original repair shop may be legally able to deny you a free fix, which they owe you now. Long story short, take it back & force the shop to fix it right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 You can find out if it is indeed the clutches by doing a test version of the "lock switch" used by many people. Search "locking center diff mod" There is much debate as to whether or not this is a "safe" mod is, but I am only suggesting it here as a diagnosis tool. Basically you disconnect power to the Duty solenoid C which modilates the transfer pressure to the clutches. If it gets no power then full pilot pressure, minus the force of the transfer valve spring, goes to clutch. It should be pin 11 of the square connector at top/front of transmission. Note there are 2 plugs, you want the one that leads down to the Drivers side of trans. Pull the connector out of pin 11 carefully. Then drive around in a few circles to feel for torque bind. If you get full 4wd then you may have a sensor, wiring, or TCU problem. If you get nothing or very little engagement, it may be the clutches, or perhaps the transfer pipe has come loose? Improper clutch selection at replacement? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 Putting the car in low will do the same thing. Since he says he has a delay, the switch may give him a false positive (make him think things are fine when they arent) since the switch overrides the the control of the line pressure. The car still needs to go back. The mechanic needs to look at it again since he has said he may have messed it up (and have the nerve to charge to find out). nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brus brother Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 OK call me a Nipper-ite but I have to agree. Don't muddy the waters by trying anything! Take it back. If you have documentation that admits to possible incompetence, all the better but you have the right to have it done correctly. The mechanic should be given the opportunity to repair it OR refund your money and refer you to a competent repairman. If all else fails, notify him IN WRITING and give him a set time to respond, say 2 weeks, and then take the car to a reputable repair shop, document the repair and sue the original mechanic in small claims court. It's a relatively simple process but you need to make sure that you can't be blamed for any bit of shared liability by tinkering around with it yourself... you are not an expert in the eyes of the court. I just took note of your location so while it might not be called small claims court in Ontario, there must be a similar venue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Putting the car in low will do the same thing. Actually no, because that would still be reliant upon the TCU sending the proper signal in response. The car still needs to go back. The mechanic needs to look at it again since he has said he may have messed it up (and have the nerve to charge to find out). I'm inclined to agree. Except If someone already screwed it up, I'd hate to give him a second chance to do worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 It's a relatively simple process but you need to make sure that you can't be blamed for any bit of shared liability by tinkering around with it yourself... you are NOT an expert. Aparently neither was the guy who fixed it. Or he was. and did it right and now we're seeing a TCU issue. Which Is why I suggested the solenoid test, so you have a clear picture when you take it back. That way the mechanic might actually fix the right thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Actually no, because that would still be reliant upon the TCU sending the proper signal in response. . I am 99% sure from the entire thread that the electronics and electrics are working as they should be, the signal is there, the electrics respond. The delay is the (lets see if i can eplain this right by typing)... It takes X volume of fluid to fill the piston that drives the clutch. The electrics are calibrated for X fluid to move the clutch pack a known distance. Since the shim is missing or some other mismatch (lets make it simple) , the piston has to move further to engage the clutches. Keep in mind that there is not a lot of clearance normally in the clutch pack, so any increased movement can cause a delay. These are also special clutches, not like the ones that normally shift a car, so they may need drag on them to work. THat gap is not producing the drag it needs. ALso since the movement of volume X is in spirts, it will take even longer to fill that volume (please tell me if i confused anyone). As i type this, i am wondering if its possible that the clutches rattling around (Over statement but thats wht they are doing to a degree) are getting damaged? Everyone makes a mistake now and then, and everyone should get one chance to rectify it, but only one. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted March 2, 2007 Author Share Posted March 2, 2007 Thanks, well i tried that, and it is DEFINITLY AWD the car, bind like crazy, and it IS AWD. Sensors were all checked, and subaru told me they are all running 100% like i said. And he said the fluid is getting trapped, and making the clutch slip. manual mode 1,2,3,D all act the exact same way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 I'm bowing out of this one. I cant follow whats been done what hasnt been done and the timeline. You need to take it back to whoever worked on it. good luck. nipper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericem Posted March 2, 2007 Author Share Posted March 2, 2007 I'm bowing out of this one. I cant follow whats been done what hasnt been done and the timeline. You need to take it back to whoever worked on it. good luck. nipper ok..... No other suggestions, i really don't like the idea of going back :-\ These guys don't know what car they are looking at. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Well, the increased pressure could be pushing the piston that much further til it engages. This doesn't rule out the clutches but it does point in a different direction. Have you had them check both Vehicle Speed Sensors? If the car can't "see" the slip then it won't respond. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyhorse001 Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Maybe not Ericem, but they admitted to messing it up to begin with. This gives you leverage to FORCE them to fix it right. Like I said, before you mess something else up, give them thier opportunity to do the right thing, because it's the right thing to do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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