daeron Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Yah, so I just got off the telephone with my ASE certified older brother, and he is suddenly adamant about me NOT needing headgaskets on this engine... these are the relevant threads, just to refresh your memory.. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=71457&highlight=gasket http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=71108&highlight=gasket I had a major water pump blowout last june, and ive replaced radiator, removed thermostat, replaced a few hoses, and i have a constant bubbling out of my radiator overflow. twenty seconds after i turn the car on, until about five minutes after its off, and then the next morning i go to refill it and the cap is still holding pressure..... I am not overheating actively, my comp numbers are 185+, 180 on driver side, 155 255 on passenger side. I am stumbling until the car warms up. What ammo can i throw at him to make him believe I am right, because he simply refuses to believe it and i need this damn car back on the road pronto.. and now HE wants to fix it for me and "save me my money" (60 bucks) and i gotta know what to tell him i gotta leave for over there in like, ten fifteen minutes, so quickly please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 255 can not be right, that is a major problem. The compression is too high, is that a typo? If the compression test was done with all the plugs out, you need to do a wet test next to see if the numbers change. Then we can tell you what the numbers mean for sure. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zebisko Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 What is his "fix" for the issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caboobaroo Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 I have found that even ASE certified mechanics can be someone "dumb" when it comes to our cars, not trying to put down your brother in any way. Its a head or a headgasket issue period. If he wants to argue about it being something else, by all means, have him join and give his $.02 cents Today, we actually had a Loyale SPFI wagon come into the shop with a busted timing belt. The mechanic who is ASE certified, worked on it ALL day and STILL didn't get it running. I was going to give him some pointers but he was all pissed and told me to leave him alone. So much for him doing it in 45 minutes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank B Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 The coolant held pressure because the crack in your head, or gasket expands and contracts with engine temp. I've has two EA82 cars that had cracked heads. They both held pressure all night long, but start it up and drive and the coolant goes right out of the exhaust in a nice sweet smelling cloud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank B Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Just re-read your post. The bubbles are the biggest sign of a cracked head. It will crack between the exhaust port and coolant passage. The exhaust pushes into the coolant creating bubbles and super heating the coolant to the point that the cooling system can not cope with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[HTi]Dain Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 It just being an EA82 means its a head/head gasket problem :-p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralDisorder Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 The fact your coolant is pressurized the next day is enough to indicate a failure. One of the passages adjacent to the cylinder is leaking. Cylinder compression is entering the cooling system. I've seen it several times, and two of the ones I replaced I could actually see the failure and the damage it caused to the head surface. With the mileage your engine has, it's almost a guarantee. Water pump failure was the last straw for my 86 with 228,000 on it. New HG's was all I needed as I didn't drive it enough with the failure to cause the head surface to be badly pitted. But I did actually SEE the failure in the gasket when I removed it. It was small (1/8" wide), but it was there. ASE certification is good general education, but doesn't trump first hand experience with specific models, which is what this board represents. I have "military training" as a mechanic if you like - doesn't mean I know what's wrong with your mazda..... good example for you: Freind's wife has a 2000 Jaguar with a V8. One day it doesn't start. I figured electrical or electronic. Turns out that short drives on this model will wash the oil off the cylinders and the engine's compression drops so low it won't start. Solution was to squirt a fluid ounce into each cylinder. It cranked up after about 5 minutes, and blew a huge oil cloud for 20 minutes. Silly? Yes, but ASE doesn't prepare you for crap like that, or other model specific anomolous behavior. No amount of education does really. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted February 27, 2007 Author Share Posted February 27, 2007 First off, thank you ALL very much for your "ammo" for my little tiff with my brother... second of all, if the mods would like to close this thread, or move it out of technical discussion, I suppose its original purpose has been achieved and theres no REAL need to let it keep bubbling up to the top... and I kinda feel embarrassed over bothering you folks about it. He wasn't REALLY trying to tell me it didn't NEED headgaskets, he was trying to tell me I didnt need to do them. third of all, more or less, what my brother was after was trying to avoid me "throwing time and money away" on this car: I apologize for over reacting a little to him, and showing my over reaction (even in a nice, controlled way) here to you folks on the board. Last night was just a case of two irrational males disagreeing over something, and butting heads, basically. He seems to think that by fixing my headgaskets, I am simply buying myself future issues with this car, and he wants to help me find some other $1000 car to get into... (a magical car, one that won;t have any issues...) MY position is, I know darn well this car is on it's way into the ground, that is a no-brainer.. I have my Z as a long dormant project that I need to get moving on, but even when she is on the road I will need an alternate vehicle. I do not want to be putting all my miles on it. So, MY thoughts are, I want to get another soob to replace this one, EVENtually. That being the case, what do I care how much I put into this motor? the radiator, the motor, if I buy a new fuel pump, the starter, the alternator.. guess what?? if the car DIES before I can get another soob, I just yank em all and wait! It came down to a fundamental difference of opinion. He thinks I allow myself to project too shabby an image with my taste in vehicles.. The Z is ratty right now and was the whole time I drive it. not much better or worse than the soob (white car, red hood, one red door, one primer/rust/bondo door, and a few minor rusty spots) Apparently he thinks if I am driving like, a mid 90's honda or something, the image projected is alot better. Me, I want to re engineer both my Zcar and my theoretical future subaru into being my own vehicles. Starter relays, ignition circuit relays, retrofit my GL10 stuff (trip comp and cruise) into the next soob. I want to start out with a Nissan and a Subaru, and end up with two Hara-Carey Japanese-American vehicles. (last name is Carey, Uncle came up with that name as an idea for his datsun race team.. hara-kiri is japanese ritual suicide, and we all figure these cars are gonna kill us one way or another ) BUT ANYHOW, in the end.. like I said, thanks for the input. BTW, 255 WAS a gross typo, both cylinders on that side were 155 Also, Moderators, feel free to move this thread.. the entire issue that I had originally thought was a technical one, was NOT. If anyone would like to continue to give me advice, its more than welcome.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 To touch on the compresion issue. Subaru FSM state that the maximum diffenence between cylinder is 30 psi. That is more than 10% I know. But that is what Subaru says. The fact that the readings are so close on each cylinder bank is another good sign. Are you SUUURE you've got a good radiator cap? have you tested it? replaced it? If it was bad you're coolant would bubble out, then as it cools the suction would pull it tight. it may not be presure releasing in the morning but a vaccuum. This is only excacebated if you run weak coolant or just water:eek: so be sure you've got good coolant. If it is SPFI triple check you're CTS and it's connections. I can't explain it but i saw an 88 DL doing this. Was doin it for weeks, replaced rad, hoses, WP, themostat. no change. But after cleaning the crap out of the CTS connector it stopped. BAD CTS=incorrect timing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nug Posted February 27, 2007 Share Posted February 27, 2007 Wow, that's some heinous rust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 To touch on the compresion issue. Subaru FSM state that the maximum diffenence between cylinder is 30 psi. That is more than 10% I know. But that is what Subaru says. The fact that the readings are so close on each cylinder bank is another good sign. Are you SUUURE you've got a good radiator cap? have you tested it? replaced it? If it was bad you're coolant would bubble out, then as it cools the suction would pull it tight. it may not be presure releasing in the morning but a vaccuum. This is only excacebated if you run weak coolant or just water:eek: so be sure you've got good coolant. If it is SPFI triple check you're CTS and it's connections. I can't explain it but i saw an 88 DL doing this. Was doin it for weeks, replaced rad, hoses, WP, themostat. no change. But after cleaning the crap out of the CTS connector it stopped. BAD CTS=incorrect timing? I went through three or four different junkyard radiator caps before I finally got around to buying a stant vented radiator cap, rated at the proper pressure (i think it was 13.7 pounds but its been a while since I checked.) I jiggled the living hell outta the CTS connections, (and associated wiring, up to where it goes into the wiring harness [like six inches]) and they look like brand new (if only the rest of the car were so corrosion-free!) thanks for the differential diagnoses, parts are due at my door any minute now (online package tracking is cool :cool:) I plan on testing all my FI compoenets etc as I tear things apart, just to help avoid the possibility of putting it all back together and getting a no start. I may be losing my internet connection; IF that happens, or if I have troubles while at the shop (no PC) I may end up having family members use my username here to post questions. Please be patient with them, as they are not as well versed in this car as I am :-p rest assured that whoever you are talking to does know about cars. (I have read some of my dad's posts in the Zcar forums.. he can come off totally ignorant sometimes, but seriously, the old man knows whats up ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Biggest thing I'd say if this is you're first HG job on these, is be ready for the rockers. As soon as you unbolt the cam case and start to seperate it they will wanna fall. I ussually try to hold them with my fingers as I seperate the case slightly. then lower them slowly down onto the ledge of the cam case and take them out sitting there. That way you can keep track of them. At least hold the middle 2 and don't have a pan of oil underneath or anything. If the end ones falls it's easier to determine which is which. Don't worry too much though. I completely mixed up a set and put them in randomly with a prayer and they lasted 25,000 more miles for me before I sold it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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