misledxcracker Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 i was driving my car for the first time this week (yay fixed my turnsignal-stalk CC) and the darned CEL comes on after a mile or so. MAF and CAS codes. i flushed the radiator (talk about procrastination), cleaned the MAF with CRC, and changed the battery terminals... cant do much about the CAS at the moment... anyways start car, sure seems like it has better voltage... no more CEL if i floor it in park, it bogs down to 300rpms... if i try to gun it from a stop, the civic boy laughs at me passing... the idle's STILL screwed... it'll be so nice one minute, next stop, it'll be so low... next stop, it'll be high! and what the heck could be ticking from the TB area?! what else should i check out? i replaced: spark plugs and wires (ngk all the way) fuel filter (fram) pcv valve (OEM) air filter (fram) cleaned MAF and its connections cleaned up CTS and its connections cleaned IAC valve tested MAF and CTS, checks out OK (thanks on the CTS location shoup!) argh, my 300 mile trip is coming up soon... what the heck else can i do? there's no CEL showing up anymore, so no "help" there..:-\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 Have you checked the condition of the rubber intake plenum. Is it attached welll to airbox and TB? Just a wild guess. As the engine torques it tends to pull away from the pass side of car. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 have you *tested* the cts at all? I may have asked or prompted you about this (I know I have emailed at least two board members on the subject in the last week or two) and if so I apologize.. but I have a 1 page .pdf file that is out of the FSM I could email you, that lays down a procedure for checking the TPS for proper function, and proper calibration. The TPS is basically like a volume knob attached directly to the throttle plate. Testing is simply connecting a multimeter set to read resistance to the right pair of pins, and slowly pushing the throttle from zero throttle to WOT, and watching for a smooth, gradual increase of resistance to correspond with that. The CTS is not *incredibly* failure prone, but it DOES happen probably as often as an actual failure of the MAF. DEFINITELY worth testing; something like the CTS is FAR more likely to have a bad connector than a bad component, hence just cleaning those contacts.. but sometimes, the TPS is bad, and wiggling won't help diddly... as for a tick coming from the TB... this is an RX, so is it turbo? if it is an SPFI car, then don't forget that the TB is where the injector is BUT if not, take a large screwdriver, stick one end in your ear, and touch the other end to the engine in the vicinity you are hearing your tick. Move it around to locate it precisely, and that will help you figure out what it is. good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooziewhatsit Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 how did you clean the IAC? It sure sounds like a problem with it. when I cleaned mine, I took it off the intake, seperated the solenoid from the valve. Then moved the valve all around; rotated it, etc, to knock any crud off. Then I sprayed some silicon lube into the solenoid and actuated it a few times (just jump 12v to it to make it engage). Put it all back together, and my cold off-idle problem was fixed. -Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misledxcracker Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 I'll check the intake. And thanks Dave, I didnt clean the IAC that way, I shall try to do that. and yes, daeron i tested the CTS and it checked out fine, after i cleaned it (green corrosion) it DID improve the idle, but it's still not satisfactory... I may just bite the bullet and buy a new CTS, mind as well. it's not an RX but it's SPFI, and yeah, I have a stethoscope, it's definately the TB area causing the tick (no TOD, my oil pump is new and resealed) i'll come back with more results, after I tackle installing the XT6 seats (which im looking for a thread on right now) -gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted February 28, 2007 Share Posted February 28, 2007 On an SPFI, the ticking at the TB is the opening and closing of the Injector. Very typical for them to be loud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misledxcracker Posted February 28, 2007 Author Share Posted February 28, 2007 GAH... so i give in and buy a new CTS... put it in. im driving down the street.. then now a code 25! turn car off, back on... no CEL drive 5 minutes, code 25. if i even try to floor it, it doesnt even respond! (in other news, i got the XT6 seats in ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 86 SPFI, and you get a code 25? 25 Throttle Sensor Idle Switch or Circuit Check the wiring for the throttle sensor. The throttle sensor almost never fails. If its never been adjusted (it rotates), then it should be fine. In the FSMs, there's a procedure on how to check and adjust the TPS. If I had an FSM for SPFI, I'd tell you what it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misledxcracker Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 86 SPFI, and you get a code 25?25 Throttle Sensor Idle Switch or Circuit Check the wiring for the throttle sensor. The throttle sensor almost never fails. If its never been adjusted (it rotates), then it should be fine. In the FSMs, there's a procedure on how to check and adjust the TPS. If I had an FSM for SPFI, I'd tell you what it was. so THAT'S what that thing is! The insulation on the wiring is bad (it crumpled in my fingers), and the wires look like they've been "folded"... is there a harness of some sort to replace it, or am I going to have to do some splicing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 86 SPFI, and you get a code 25?25 Throttle Sensor Idle Switch or Circuit Check the wiring for the throttle sensor. The throttle sensor almost never fails. If its never been adjusted (it rotates), then it should be fine. In the FSMs, there's a procedure on how to check and adjust the TPS. If I had an FSM for SPFI, I'd tell you what it was. I've seen a couple of them fail. actually more common than many other sensors cause it has moving parts and see's physical wear. A bad Idle switch would definately affect the idle. This is the jist of the FSM proceedure. First, check for continuity between terminal B(Black w/red wire) of TPS and ground. With throttle closed, there should be continuity between terminal A(Blue w/green wire, idle signal) and terminal B of TPS. With the throttle opened about a mm, there should be no continuity. Adjustment can be made by loosening the 2 screws that hold it and rotating. But if you can never get continuity between those terminals, idle switch in the TPS is shot. Replace TPS If all that checks out, it may be a harness issue. You can test it at the check connector in the engine bay by wiper motor. Also you can test at the ECU. First the check connector. The "natural" color check connector has 13 pins. The one dead center(Green wire) should have continuity with terminal B(Black w/ red wire) of TPS when throttle is closed, none when opened. My '86 FSM doesn't have numbered pins on the ECU, but it says that the signal wire is green at the ECU. There are only 2 Green wires shown at the ecu, one of them should be it. again continuity with throttle closed, none when open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misledxcracker Posted March 1, 2007 Author Share Posted March 1, 2007 Looks like I'll be under the hood tomorrow with the meter The TPS at kragen and autozone cost around $300... wow. just, wow. I do notice if I jiggle the wiring, it acts different somewhat... what's the worst case scenario here? if the wiring is, indeed messed up, how hard is it to fix? oh yeah, now the idle's just completely screwed up at 250-400rpm, theres no more time when the car decides to be nice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misledxcracker Posted March 2, 2007 Author Share Posted March 2, 2007 okay, i suspect the wiring 100% now... i didnt check anything this morning, had to take a 30 mile drive in a pinch... so i just took off. NO CEL, and no erratic idle. idled SMOOTH, even in freeway traffic. I am going to check for continuity on the wires, but.... how in the heck do you check for continuity? what setting do i set the meter on? i have this cheap Harbor Freight digi-multimeter, and I lost the little paper "manual" once i figure that out, i'll post back with results... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooziewhatsit Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 To check for continuity, you'll want to set the meter to measure resistance (ohms). If you measure close to zero ohms, the circuit is connected. edit: In this thread is a PDF to the guide that shows how to test the resistances in it, as well as where to make the switch in it open compared to throttle position. http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?t=24997&highlight=throttle+position +sensor Although if the wires TO the TPS are shot, then it's a fair bet the problem is there, and not the actual sensor. For those you'll just have to cut & splice (& solder preferably) the new connections Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misledxcracker Posted March 9, 2007 Author Share Posted March 9, 2007 okay, i tried checking the sensor, i dont know what it is, my meter wont give me any readings... just sits at 1... maybe the meter's broke? there's 5 different ohm settings... maybe i have the wrong one? and now im getting both code 25 (TPS) and code 31 just came up... speed sensor? i think this car's falling apart on me... :-\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misledxcracker Posted March 9, 2007 Author Share Posted March 9, 2007 And I'm reading the FSM (I printed the whole thing out from PDF! ) I get confused sometimes... but can the ignition timing have anything to do with this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 in the section for resistance checking, it should have like four settings. Find the one that is closest to simple base ten.. not 200K ohms, not 200m Ohms (milli Omega) just plain, 20 ohms. In other words, take the multimeter and flip it on the setting that displays 00.0 with the two leads touching each other. you want one or two decimal places.. 0.00 or 0.0. Otherwise, chances are you are trying to read resistance of either too high or too low a value. Just take a step back and breathe deeply. Electricity is NOT very complicated to understand, but it can be VERY daunting to someone just starting out... trust me, we have ALL been there at some point or other. Make sure that you are connecting the leads to the proper terminals on your TPS.. and make sure you arent looking at the terminals backwards, too. Another handy trick involves a trip to wal mart, going to the automotive section, and finding a package of cheap cheap alligator clips to attach to your multimeter leads.. that way, they hold themselves in place. less headache for you to worry about == more brain cells to concentrate on figuring out how to use your meter. Good luck, and post back if this still doesnt quite make sense. If you can find a good pic of your meter, post it here and we can tell you exactly which setting you want to be on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misledxcracker Posted March 10, 2007 Author Share Posted March 10, 2007 Thanks daeron! Yeah, this electrical stuff is giving me the heebie-jeebies.... I'd take a head gasket or oil pump over this any day! My meter is cheap. $6 at Harbor Freight cheap It has 200, 2000, 20k, 200k, and 2000k. I appreciate all the help, I'm sure learning stuff about car electricals will help me in the long run Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 200. that should do you. Just keep in mind that if you are on a setting made to differentiate between 10,000 ohms, and 20,000 ohms, a resistance of 3 ohms will NOT register.... and if you are on a setting to differentiate between .001 ohm and .005 ohms, 1 ohm will sho as infinite resistance (open circuit, displaying either zeros with a minus, or just the minus, or something odd like that, whatever the thing shows with the leads touching nothing.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misledxcracker Posted March 10, 2007 Author Share Posted March 10, 2007 Got it. You learn something new every day I think the wires are toast then, because when I test continuity on the wires, it shows the same stupid "1" that it shows when it's not even being used... meaning NO connection, im assuming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 10, 2007 Share Posted March 10, 2007 Got it. You learn something new every day I think the wires are toast then, because when I test continuity on the wires, it shows the same stupid "1" that it shows when it's not even being used... meaning NO connection, im assuming. Does it show continuity if you touch the leads together? that test's the meter. If meter is good, and you've ot the same wire at both ends and no continuity you've nailed it. Break in wire or loose connections at an intermidiate plug. Tell us which wire has no continuity and I can tell you where to find it in the intermediate plugs, color, pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misledxcracker Posted March 10, 2007 Author Share Posted March 10, 2007 Does it show continuity if you touch the leads together? that test's the meter. If meter is good, and you've ot the same wire at both ends and no continuity you've nailed it. Break in wire or loose connections at an intermidiate plug. Tell us which wire has no continuity and I can tell you where to find it in the intermediate plugs, color, pin. 00.2 is what my meter shows when both leads are touched together. i'll have to test the TPS itself tomorrow, i couldnt figure out what to set the meter on... and now that i figured it out it's too dark :-\ terminal A and B both look shot, the wire looks "folded" right next to the plug.... like the wire itself might have broke while the insulation didnt... and that black stuff that's supposed to cover up the wiring, right by the plug, is history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psylosyfer Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 okay, i tried checking the sensor, i dont know what it is, my meter wont give me any readings... just sits at 1... maybe the meter's broke? there's 5 different ohm settings... maybe i have the wrong one? and now im getting both code 25 (TPS) and code 31 just came up... speed sensor? i think this car's falling apart on me... :-\ Alway's touch the two probes together right before using the meter, this verifies operation and resistance setting is selected, and usually this is when you 'zero" it ( turning a wheel or pressing a button until it reads zero while holding the probes together. also if you get no reading on one of the ohm's scale try the next higher up scale, the lowest will show an open when it see's a low (but not 0) resistance, i.e a ten ohm scale wont resond to 11 ohm's up,switch to 100 scale and all the sudden it reads. Too high a scale actually work but wont move needle enough to tell, If you put it on any ohm scale touch probes,you should get movement(a reading)Also if it works but wont zero battery is weak not yet dead. If nothing happens check the battery in the meter(analog meters only use the battery on ohm's digitals need it to work atall, if a good batt, and still won't read ,unplug one probe and touch the remaining one to the hole for the unplugged probe try this with both to test for open probes( quite common as they are cheaply made and get pulled/twisted alot. if still no reading(movement) meter is broke (at least resistance function) for six dollars worth of meter this is the point to round file it and get another( hopefully a little more than 6 bucks!) even a ten dollar meter blows away the 6 buck ones! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misledxcracker Posted March 26, 2007 Author Share Posted March 26, 2007 I learned a lot about meters with the TPS ordeal Mine's fine, I just didnt know what I was doing. Thanks for the tip on broken probes! The TPS is (i'm assuming) repaired... Another not-so-quick removal of the TPS, sprayed the bejesus out of it with MAF cleaner, (it's the best i have) bought me a set of feeler gauges, and went to town. No CEL anymore, no flat spots, no ODD idle, but now just runs like absolute crap and idles really low. my car's possessed i'm just going to live with the fact that I'm stuck with 3AT transmissions and crappy running NA EA82's with low mileage. three subarus, same thing... still, gotta love 'em Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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