Davalos Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I'm considering looking into the possibility of converting my Loyale Wagon to electric. I'm thinking it might be a perfect candidate because of the weight distribution Here's the idea: 96-120 volt DC conversion, depending on the needs. For me, as a work vehicle, if I get 50 miles a day out of it, I'd be fine. I'd lose the following (weight): Motor, and most things associated with it Exhaust Gas Tank I'd add: 8" DC Electric motor, bolted right to the transfer-case 8 or 10 12v batteries, 4-6 on racks in front, 4-6 in back where tank and the "mini-trunk" Controllers, chargers, relays, etc. Appropriate gagues, throttle controller, etc I'm thinking I'd budget maybe $2 grand in parts ... maybe a month to do. As a bonus - maybe with a PV solar array mounted somehow on the roof to provide some extra trickle during the day. Whatdayall think? Anyone ever try this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
backwoodsboy Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 From what Ive read, if you have a good understanding of all things mechanical....you will be OK doing a conversion. The EA chassis will be nice and light, but what about hauling heavy items for work- dragging your mileage down? My only other thought is the WINTER factor. I know Im always glad my soob runs on gas for these cold NY winters! All in all, an electric Loyale would be eco-sweeet! Keep us posted! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reveeen Posted March 1, 2007 Share Posted March 1, 2007 I saw an electric conversion for a Subaru FWD somewhere on the internet that went into a 3 wheel car a guy was building. http://www.rqriley.com/doran.html Start there, look for links. I kinda fell accross this link: http://www.e-volks.com/index.html There are also multiple places where guys have shoved one of those Chinese air cooled Diesel engines in small cars (Geo Metro/Suzuki) using a belt torque converter hooked to the transmission input shaft. You can kinda get away with that because, while the horsepower is low, the torque is high. http://www.utterpower.com/10hp_chevy.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WoodsWagon Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 I read a book once about a guy who had solar panels on his roof of his barn that he used to recharge his subaru wagon. The car ended up wrapped around a phone pole, but before then it worked well. For the life of me I can't remember the title or the author. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Great idea. Feel free to PM me on any questions, as I have been researching electric car conversions since I was 12, and am currently in the process of converting my ford courier pickup to electric. If you can get lots of used parts, your budget might be okay, but I'm planning on around $10k for mine -- I also want an AC drive system so I can do regenerative braking and go up steep hills at somewhat near the speed limit (I have alot of hills....). The DC drive system is just fine for most stuff and quite a bit cheaper though. I've heard mixed reviews on using 12 volt batteries though -- most people end up going to 8 volt or 6 volt batteries to get the necessary AH storage. Lot's of weight. I just put 3.6kW of solar on my house to prepare for solar charging it (another 3kW on the yard later perhaps). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveT Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Cool. I have thought about this also. From reading about electric conversions in general, you want 120V and up for good performance. Don't put panels on the car. There isn't enough area to be significant. If you go with 120V, common easy to get batteries: 20) 220AH "golf cart" batteries = 120V @ 200A = 24,000Watt Hours of stored power. (24KWH) Common solar panel about 3x4' = 120Watts. Say you put 2 on the roof. That's 240Watts. For as long as there is direct, straight on sun. So maybe 6 hours. 6x240=1440WH or a little over 1/16th of capacity. And they are big bucks and fragile. Figure on a new set of batteries every 5 years. The batteries need to be secured very well. You don't want the flying around in a crash. You need a circuit interupter (fuse) at each pack. 120V DC is much more dangerous than 120VAC. The arc doesn't go out 120 times per second like AC, so it is much harder to interrupt the current. Those batteries will oblige a 1000Amp discharge current for many seconds. 120KW!! The electric conversion info also talked about upgrading the suspension and brakes to handle the extra weight. So the Honda springs go in:) And at least the rear disc brakes. It would be a fun project. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 From working on eletric cars, the one place where you are going to want to spen the bucks is the controller. A good solid state controller will allow for dynamic breaking. Will you be bolting the motor to the subaru tranny? A conversion is doable. You will also loose the gas tank, the hvac system. Do think about battery placement to keep the car balanced. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 From working on eletric cars, the one place where you are going to want to spen the bucks is the controller. A good solid state controller will allow for dynamic breaking. Will you be bolting the motor to the subaru tranny? A conversion is doable. You will also loose the gas tank, the hvac system. Do think about battery placement to keep the car balanced. nipper Yes, a good controller is key. But, I haven't seen many controllers capable of dynamic braking with the series DC motors that are usually used -- because in forwards operation the field excitation is provided by the same high current as the armature current. Keeping a stable field current in reverse operation is alot harder than it would be in a shunt DC motor. This is one reason I'm looking at an AC motor for mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 i assumed you were using an AC motor. DC motors are for golf carts. http://www.electroauto.com/sitemap.shtml Thats who we used when we made fuel cell cars. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 120V DC is much more dangerous than 120VAC. The arc doesn't go out 120 times per second like AC, so it is much harder to interrupt the current. Those batteries will oblige a 1000Amp discharge current for many seconds. 120KW!! Speaking of which -- I accidentally shorted a 170 volt DC electric car battery pack once -- just barely brushed the end of a cable against the wrong terminal while wiring it -- giant flash of white light, completely melted the terminal off a thumb sized cable -- melted pool of bronze set the battery case on fire. Luckily the other guy grabbed the fire extinguisher right there and put it out, and my vision returned in a few seconds. And no one was hurt otherwise. But it was a bit more excitement than we were looking for.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Speaking of which -- I accidentally shorted a 170 volt DC electric car battery pack once -- just barely brushed the end of a cable against the wrong terminal while wiring it -- giant flash of white light, completely melted the terminal off a thumb sized cable -- melted pool of bronze set the battery case on fire. Luckily the other guy grabbed the fire extinguisher right there and put it out, and my vision returned in a few seconds. And no one was hurt otherwise. But it was a bit more excitement than we were looking for.... You havent lived untill you have gotten zapped by 600vdc and as much amperage as God and con ed wnats to give you. Lets just say exciting is a word, along with a string of words that use asterics.... i was lucky, the gauge of the wire saved me. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davalos Posted March 2, 2007 Author Share Posted March 2, 2007 Wow, this is awesome! Thanks peeps. I've been told DC is the way to go "for beginners" ... And yep - battery placement is going to be key. Weight distribution will be a little better with batteries instead of the tank - the tank goes from like 25lbs to upwards of 150lbs or thereabouts. Zyewdall - that's awesome that you've been well-underway. I'll def. be taking you up on that offer ... Interesting about the 6v vs. 12v batteries... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 You havent lived untill you have gotten zapped by 600vdc and as much amperage as God and con ed wnats to give you. Lets just say exciting is a word, along with a string of words that use asterics.... i was lucky, the gauge of the wire saved me. nipper Eeeesh. They highest I've ever experienced was about 320 volts DC from a small grid tied photovoltaic system. That was more than I cared to repeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted March 2, 2007 Share Posted March 2, 2007 Wow, this is awesome! Thanks peeps. I've been told DC is the way to go "for beginners" ... And yep - battery placement is going to be key. Weight distribution will be a little better with batteries instead of the tank - the tank goes from like 25lbs to upwards of 150lbs or thereabouts. Zyewdall - that's awesome that you've been well-underway. I'll def. be taking you up on that offer ... Interesting about the 6v vs. 12v batteries... Yeah, the DC systems are a bit simpler. www.EV-America.com seems to be a good place to get parts . There's a few others out there as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tsutomu Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 i accidently found this one night, dont remember what i was looking for, but heres an electric jeep, http://www.driveev.com/jeepev/home.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 I have thought of this before for a Brat. I thought it would be great for offroading. But there wouldn't be enough juice to get to the offroad spot One thing I thought of while reading this was what about the vacuum brake boost? Would be great to get your car a little more green good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 I have thought of this before for a Brat. I thought it would be great for offroading. But there wouldn't be enough juice to get to the offroad spot One thing I thought of while reading this was what about the vacuum brake boost? Would be great to get your car a little more green good luck. Vaccum pump. Deisels have them. Subarus have them for cruise control, along with other cars with small engines. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davalos Posted March 3, 2007 Author Share Posted March 3, 2007 i accidently found this one night, dont remember what i was looking for, but heres an electric jeep, http://www.driveev.com/jeepev/home.php Wow - that was one of the most comprehensive outlines I've ever seen. 14 months worth of work! wow! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivantruckman Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Hey a fellow "Michigander" subie nut. I didn't know they existed, I wonder if Michigan has enough sun to make solar arrays worth wile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Wow - that was one of the most comprehensive outlines I've ever seen. 14 months worth of work! wow! It was a good outline. Though the one thing he skipped was lightening the flywheel. With no ignition pulses to smooth out, he could have made it really light and gotten some extra range out it. The range is about right considering its a brick. I would like to see how he worked out the HVAC. That would be a huge power robber. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 3, 2007 Share Posted March 3, 2007 Hey a fellow "Michigander" subie nut. I didn't know they existed, I wonder if Michigan has enough sun to make solar arrays worth wile Even when there is no sun (clouds) there is enough light to make some power. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zyewdall Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 Hey a fellow "Michigander" subie nut. I didn't know they existed, I wonder if Michigan has enough sun to make solar arrays worth wile Well, financially, probably not. Even here in Colorado, with the utility company paying for half the cost, it still takes 15 years to pay back. But from a technical standpoint, it works fine. Consider that last year the country to install the most solar of any in the world was Germany, followed by Japan -- both of which who have climates similar to Seattle, or Michigan. About 70% as good as Colorado or California if I recall. I grew up in Washington state on a completely solar powered house 5 miles from the powerlines. A little hard, but with the new grid tied systems and net metering, even washington is pretty decent. Zeke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davalos Posted March 4, 2007 Author Share Posted March 4, 2007 Hey a fellow "Michigander" subie nut. I didn't know they existed, I wonder if Michigan has enough sun to make solar arrays worth wile Yeah, I know. It'll boil-down to a cost thing at some point, I'm sure. I'm thinking it'll trickle-charge at best - and that might not be worth it from a financial standpoint. But neither will the conversion itself. The point is to drive-by the gas station & and be able to go "nah nah!" Where in Michigan are ya? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 I'm considering looking into the possibility of converting my Loyale Wagon to electric. ... ...I'd add: 8" DC Electric motor, bolted right to the transfer-case ... No Man, I don´t Think so... Electric Motor Bolted Right to the Transfer Case? I´m a Little Lost on Translation with this, so Let me Ask: You mean to Bolt it to the Gearbox? Well... I have consider that Idea since I was in High School (here Called the "Bachilleráto") Doin´ a Science Fair Project, that was a Mini Wooden Pick´up with electric motor, than can carry 100 Lbs (42.3 or so Kgs) of Weight... I noticed two things: How much weight directly wear the Batteries with the Effort, and how much Rpm´s can do an Electric Motor. Then I consider to do a "Real Car" Conversion to Electric... So, I was Thinkin´ About to put Two AC Motors of 42 Hp Each, and Each one connected Directly to their Side´s Wheel. So, the car will be Fwd, and no Gearbox is Needed, ´cos a AC 42 Hp Electric Motor do Around 18,000 RPM´s... Also to go Reverse, with some sort of Switch, you just "Reverse the way AC Flows" and the car go Reverse, with some sort of Limitator to the Rpm´s in Reverse way. Also, I think that Both 42 AC motors, can go Side by Side in the Engine Bay of a Loyale, but the Axles Shall be changed for compatibility, to anothers that brings Enough distance (Shorter) an there Starts the Question of the Part that Holds the Axle & the Motor... It needs some Invention / Adaptation there... Why Bolt Directly the AC Motor to the Wheels? Well... 18,000 Rpm´s means A Lot of Speed, I´m not Sure, but consider Two Things: Gasoline Engines can do an Average Around 6,000 Rpm´s Safely, and got their peak Torque at an Average of Around 3,000 Rpm´s; and Electric Motors can do Around 18,000 Without the loose of Any Torque, so you can go Faster without gearbox. Maybe you can Reach above of 75 Mph. Another Question to Consider is that AC Motors are Industrial motors, more Easy to Obtain, so Parts for ´em, So I think that Project can be Done, with Lots of Inventive, Time, Efforts, and Money. Good Luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 4, 2007 Share Posted March 4, 2007 With two AC motors on two wheels, i am not sure, but you may loose differential action. Yes there are cars out there with electric motors on the wheels, but i am not sure how the controllers deal with things, so just something to look into. Also most eletric vehicals use some sort of gearing for the points raised in one of the links (higher mototr speed higher efficency) nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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