eagleb Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 96 OBW AT 113k I have a question regarding a fairly new quirk with my speedometer... When coming to a stop (under 10 mph), the speedo will jump to ~20mph, then wiggle its way down to zero when I've fully stopped. Sometimes the same type of jump will happen as I slowly accelerate from a stop. (The jump occurs under 10mph) Sensors? Thanks for the help. eagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Its either the sen sor or the Spedo head itself. First i would remove the head clean all the terminlas and screws, and see what happens. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 96 OBW AT 113k I have a question regarding a fairly new quirk with my speedometer... When coming to a stop (under 10 mph), the speedo will jump to ~20mph, then wiggle its way down to zero when I've fully stopped. Sometimes the same type of jump will happen as I slowly accelerate from a stop. (The jump occurs under 10mph) Sensors? Thanks for the help. eagle Sounds like one of the speed sensors goin out, either the sender(side of trans) or reciever(speedo display). I would guess the sender, because it is subject to heat and lots of spinning. Where as the display lives inside the car at relatively stable temps and is basically an analog voltmeter. If it fails completely, the engine will run a bit funny, may stall coasting to stop, and will not rev past 4000 rpms. I paid about 110 to a dealer for a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 I just wanted him to start with the cheap stuff. If the sensor fails, you will loose AWD if its an automatic. If its a manual, you will go into limp mode and have all sorts of weirdness going on. If its an automatic and loose both, you will be rev limited and the car will stay in third. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Its either the sen sor or the Spedo head itself. First i would remove the head clean all the terminlas and screws, and see what happens. nipper Much eaiser to pull the sender from trans. it's on the passenger side towards front. whole thing screws out of trans. hook an AC voltmeter to each pin of connector. spin it by hand and you should get a voltage reading of .5 volts or more as you spin it by hand. If you have long test leads, you can just unplug the connector, hook up the voltmeter and go for a drive. It should read a steadily increasing voltage as speed increases. Makie sure to use the AC scale of voltmeter. And really if all it's doing is a little hop, you may not have to worry for a while still. These tests are for if it goes completely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleb Posted March 12, 2007 Author Share Posted March 12, 2007 Is the speedo head the same as the receiver? The sender was about $110? I've had a couple posts recently regarding my transmission. It seems to be on its way out, causing some hard shifting, and delayed shifting around 3rd gear (up or down). Also, engine feels weaker around 2500 rpm. (Nipper - I didn't get a chance to disconnect the exhaust this weekend. My sister decided I needed to help her move instead, so I can't say whether or not there is a clog in the exhaust) Is there a good description of the speedo head and sender in the haynes? I'm a bit timid when it comes to removing dash components... I'm notorious for dropping screws into the deep unknown. Guess I need a stronger magnet in the screwdriver... As far as being rev limited goes, what does it feel like when a car is rev limited? thanks again eagle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 As far as being rev limited goes, what does it feel like when a car is rev limited? eagle Put foot on gas, car wont go past Xrpm (i think its 5000). nipper (in drive) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleb Posted March 12, 2007 Author Share Posted March 12, 2007 Put foot on gas, car wont go past Xrpm (i think its 5000). nipper Is there increased resistance when putting foot on gas? i.e. would it be harder to reach 3000 rpm in a rev limited car than on a healthy car BTW speedo jump does not happen every time, mostly random stops Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Is the speedo head the same as the receiver? The sender was about $110?I've had a couple posts recently regarding my transmission. It seems to be on its way out, causing some hard shifting, and delayed shifting around 3rd gear (up or down). Also, engine feels weaker around 2500 rpm. Is there a good description of the speedo head and sender in the haynes? I'm a bit timid when it comes to removing dash components... I'm notorious for dropping screws into the deep unknown. Guess I need a stronger magnet in the screwdriver... As far as being rev limited goes, what does it feel like when a car is rev limited? thanks again eagle That's why I proposed testing the sender first. It is easier to access, and can actually be tested in the car, with a set of 6ft leads w/clips. hook up the voltmeter, set it on the dash and go for a drive. If it tests good, and has no "hiccup" at the low end then the issue may be in the head unit(speedometer) or wires perhaps. But wiring issues would be more random jumping or total failure. What does rev limiting feel like? Well, in an automatic it will probably just shift at a lower rpm. And won't go into 4th. But in a Manual it sucks, right as you get to the powerband @4000 rpms, feels like the car loose all power. so you have to make sure to shift early. Nipper is right that if you're speedo isn't working on an automatic(or the second speed sensor in rear of automatics) then you're AWD will not work. the system uses compared speed of front and rear to detect slip and distribute torque to rear end. NOTE: The rear speed sensor doesn't affect the actual speedometer display. It is just used by computer to control trans, so probably don't worry about that. I was just giving you more info on the whole system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleb Posted March 12, 2007 Author Share Posted March 12, 2007 ...If it tests good, and has no "hiccup" at the low end then the issue may be in the head unit(speedometer) or wires perhaps... ...The rear speed sensor doesn't affect the actual speedometer display... Just getting the terminology set... receiver = head unit = speedometer (display) ? sender = rear speed sensor ? Terms I've heard/read before are VSS1 and VSS2. Are those the sender and receiver? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Just getting the terminology set... receiver = head unit = speedometer (display) ? sender = rear speed sensor ? Terms I've heard/read before are VSS1 and VSS2. Are those the sender and receiver? VSS= Vehical Speed Sensor There are two in an automatic, one front one rear. When one of these fails the car will drive normally but there would be no AWD. If the primary one fails, the secondary one will still operate the spedo etc. If both fail the car will go into limp mode. Limp mode as defined by subaru is engine rpm in gear limited to 5000 rpm, no torque converter lock up, and only 3rd gear in Drive. Manual. no spedo. AWD not affected. Revs limited to 5000 rpm and all the other wierdness as described. Reciever can be the dpedo head, though it does go through the tcu. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Just getting the terminology set... receiver = head unit = speedometer (display) ? sender = rear speed sensor ? Terms I've heard/read before are VSS1 and VSS2. Are those the sender and receiver? Head=reciever=display. Correct Manual or Auto(Vss2) Manuals have one sender(vss1) Automatics are a little confusing: in automatics, sometimes both speed senders are referred to as VSS1 and VSS2. (what do you call the head unit then?) I can't explain the logic. 94 and earlier still used a cable. So there was only the rear sender, and the display which had a sensor incorporated for the front axle signal, but was physically driven by a cable. When they changed to the electric signal type speedometer(95) they kept the same terms even though there are now 3 electrical sensors involved in the speedo system. confused yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleb Posted March 12, 2007 Author Share Posted March 12, 2007 Head=reciever=display. Correct Manual or Auto(Vss2) Manuals have one sender(vss1) Automatics are a little confusing: in automatics, sometimes both speed senders are referred to as VSS1 and VSS2. (what do you call the head unit then?) I can't explain the logic. 94 and earlier still used a cable. So there was only the rear sender, and the display which had a sensor incorporated for the front axle signal, but was physically driven by a cable. When they changed to the electric signal type speedometer(95) they kept the same terms even though there are now 3 electrical sensors involved in the speedo system. confused yet? Always, but a little less confused after each post. On automatics there are two speed senders? Would that mean a front and a rear sender? If so, then in the previous reply did you recommend testing the front sender? Now I've probably gone and confused everyone else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Always, but a little less confused after each post.On automatics there are two speed senders? Would that mean a front and a rear sender? If so, then in the previous reply did you recommend testing the front sender? Now I've probably gone and confused everyone else wht i would do is disconnect the front one (primary) and see if it goes away. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleb Posted March 12, 2007 Author Share Posted March 12, 2007 So there are 2 senders? That would mean: Rear sender Front sender Receiver And I should check the front sender before digging into the receiver. Am I on the right track? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 So there are 2 senders? That would mean: Rear sender Front sender Receiver And I should check the front sender before digging into the receiver. Am I on the right track? Yeah that's right. I really don't think the speedometer will function off of the rear speed sensor. I know my older automatic, the rear sender only goes to the TCU, not to the dash or engine management. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 Yeah that's right. I really don't think the speedometer will function off of the rear speed sensor. I know my older automatic, the rear sender only goes to the TCU, not to the dash or engine management. As per subaru, it will. When one fails the other takes over on the 4eat, nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 i wouldn't spend a lot of time on this before you swasp the trans, you're going to get 2 new senders/speed sensors when you do. if the problem continues, then check the receiver/speedo contacts. you can get used instrument cluster, if needed, and if you search, you can probably find one within 5k miles of yours. but that's only if you need it. pulling the instrument cluster with the speedo in it is pretty easy, a coupl,e of screwws in the top of the trim piece and several connectors. any lead on a trans yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 12, 2007 Share Posted March 12, 2007 As per subaru, it will. When one fails the other takes over on the 4eat, nipper Right, either one can provide a basic speed pulse to the 4eat, but only the front one actuates the speedometer on dash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleb Posted March 13, 2007 Author Share Posted March 13, 2007 i wouldn't spend a lot of time on this before you swasp the trans, you're going to get 2 new senders/speed sensors when you do. if the problem continues, then check the receiver/speedo contacts. you can get used instrument cluster, if needed, and if you search, you can probably find one within 5k miles of yours. but that's only if you need it. pulling the instrument cluster with the speedo in it is pretty easy, a coupl,e of screwws in the top of the trim piece and several connectors. any lead on a trans yet? Still checking car-part.com, Only wrecks nearby from craigslist are legacys, one is an LSi with 75k on the clock. If the price is right, would it be worth it to swap the trans, rear diff, and TCU? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 Still checking car-part.com, Only wrecks nearby from craigslist are legacys, one is an LSi with 75k on the clock. If the price is right, would it be worth it to swap the trans, rear diff, and TCU? i think the 96 LSi had a 2.5L engine , in which case you don't need the rear diff. but check the model number. it may be a TZ102Z2ABA, 2 for 2.5L. i think all 96 2.5L engines with A/T had that trans. as far as swaping out the trans and the rear diff, not only do you have the added part costs , you have the added labor costs for the added parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnceggleston Posted March 13, 2007 Share Posted March 13, 2007 www.car-part.com near you? 1996 Transmission Subaru Legacy 2.5, AT PUK146 $550 B & R Auto Wrecking, Portland USA-OR(Portland) E-mail 1-800-578-6787 1996 Transmission Subaru Legacy 4W, A.T, 2.5 116,000 A6J4690 $550 Hillsboro Auto Wrecking USA-OR(Hillsboro) E-mail 1-800-547-5415 not so near: 1996 Transmission Subaru Legacy frm 6/95, AWD, 2.5L - 88,000 A17342 $350 Roy Y Auto Wrecking, Inc. USA-WA(Spanaway) E-mail 1-800-422-5621 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleb Posted March 13, 2007 Author Share Posted March 13, 2007 The first 2 are... I'm going to call on the one in portland, the one in hillsboro has higher miles than I'd like, and spanaway is pretty far out, but worth a shot. I'll let you know what happens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eagleb Posted May 3, 2007 Author Share Posted May 3, 2007 Still haven't had the transmission fail me yet, but I also haven't taken a long drive in quite a while... I'm hoping the thing doesn't give out going over the coast range or up to mt hood. I am still having a few problems with the car though around 2k - 2500 rpm the car shakes a bit and the engine feels like it has low power. From reading other posts, I think it could be the knock sensor (car still has the original AFAIK). I ordered a new one from subarugenuineparts, so I'll install that to see if it helps. Along with the low power at the above rpm, my gas mileage has been fairly low compared to last year. Seeing as how the car has 114k miles and the O2 sensors are original afaik, would it be worthwhile for me to replace at least the front sensor? I guess I can wait to see what the knock sensor does. And finally, would someone mind giving me a list of sensors that could use a cleaning? I want to hear ol blubaroo purr like a happy soob should. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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