moonladymae Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 I have a 93 legacy that will turn over but will not start. Pulled a spark plug and I have no spark. Could it be the ignition coil? I see a lot of people with possible crank or cam sensor issues. Would the crank sensor or cam sensor cause there to be no spark? Any ideas would be helpful. I also replaced the temp sensor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 (mods: this should go in New Gen) I'm new to the EJ engines but.. Yes I believe that the crank sensor or cam sensor would stop the spark. But there are also SO many more things that would do the same. I suggest you read your ECU codes. You should have a little light on your dash that says something like Check Engine? Is that on when you turn the ignition on? What you do is near the ECU (or ECM, whatever you want to call it) which is on the passenger side for the US I think under the dashboard you will see 4 plugs, two green that fit together and 2 black that fit together (these are just on the wires that are coming out of the ECU.) Plug the black ones together and then turn your ignition on, the "CEL" (check engine light I think that means) will then blink at you. First long blinks, then short ones. This makes up codes like 11 or 55, or anything in between. So two long blinks followed by six short blinks would be code 26, then there is a pause and it shows the next code. Or if that is the only one it will pause a little longer and then show it again. Once you figured out all the codes, or just the one, then read this page to find out what code it is and what it means. http://www.surrealmirage.com/subaru/engine.html. Then use that knowledge to track down and fix the issue. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[HTi]Johnson Posted March 19, 2007 Share Posted March 19, 2007 Timing belt? Have you checked it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonladymae Posted March 20, 2007 Author Share Posted March 20, 2007 I haven't physically checked the timing belt but I did get it done a few years ago. I am going to check a few things with a muti-meter today. Someone suggested the ignitor and the ECU. Thanks for the ideas. Keep em coming! I haven't gotten to the bottom of this yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 the left and right timing covers are attached with only a couple 10mm bolts, remove them and check the timing belt. did you check for spark at all plugs or just one? ignition coil (DIS), wires, cam sensors, crank sensors. probably lies in one of those items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonladymae Posted March 20, 2007 Author Share Posted March 20, 2007 OK, so before I started checking anything I thought I would try starting it again. It's been about 2 days since it started last. And it started right up! She ran for about 2 minutes and than stopped. Now it won't start again and I'm back at square one. I am going to get a multi-meter now and a helper. Could my fuel pump work intermittently? I only pulled one spark plug that one time. The other thing I noticed when I pulled that plug that it smelled very gassy, like maybe the engine was flooded. So, it seems the fuel pump is working. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 what's the history on this car? was it running fine then it just quit one day? is the gas old, been in there for a few month? if you don't have spark, the gas won't burn and yo'ull get the gassy smell you're indicating so sounds like i'd still be tracking down a spark issue. the igintion box is really easy to replace. if you get another one you can test it in about 3 minutes, pull 4 wires and install them on a new box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonladymae Posted March 20, 2007 Author Share Posted March 20, 2007 OK, so, this issue has been intermittent for a few months now. It has progressivly gotten worse it seems. It sometimes will just not want to start,it will turn over, but not start. Some days it will start right up in the morning I will run some errands turning the car on and off a few times throughout the day then at some point it will not start again. Sometimes it will go a couple of weeks running great, no issues. I took it into a shop and they couldn't find any codes or anything, they told me that subarus have this relay switch that has been updated and that that could be it. So, I got that part replaced.When I took it to get it replaced it wouldn't start. Waited overnight and still wouldn't start. Towed it in, they put in the relay and it started right up, ran great for a week and now back to square one. New battery, new alternator, new ignition switch relay, new temp sensor. Today it has started for me both times I tried to start it. First time it ran a couple of minutes than stopped, second time now it's running and seems to be running fine. I replaced the temp sensor yesterday, tried to start it a few times and it wouldn't start. Now I live in Alaska and it has been very cold(0-10 degrees). Today it is warming up(25-30 degrees). This might be a cold weather thing. I think it's worse when it's really really cold. I can't really tell. I still need to test with the multimeter. But, it's running at the moment and has been for about 15 minutes. I will keep checking things out. Some one told me it could be bad ground wires? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Now I live in Alaska and it has been very cold(0-10 degrees). Today it is warming up(25-30 degrees). This might be a cold weather thing. I think it's worse when it's really really cold. I can't really tell. I still need to test with the multimeter. But, it's running at the moment and has been for about 15 minutes. I will keep checking things out. Some one told me it could be bad ground wires? When it was really cold here in Wisconsin recently, my 1993 legacy would not start, and smelled like gas. Turned out the rubber fuel hose from filter to fuel rail was getting so cold, it started leaking out a little fuel right where it clamps to the engine. This was enough to lower fuel pressure and bam, no start. new hoses and it's fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonladymae Posted March 20, 2007 Author Share Posted March 20, 2007 I would like to think I just need new hoses for fuel to filter. I could maybe try that. I just drove it around a bunch and everything seems fine. I am going to leave it off for awhile and see if I can start it again in an hour or so. Sometimes it won't start after sitting for an hour or more. We'll see. In the meantime I'm going to test some things with the multimeter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nipper Posted March 20, 2007 Share Posted March 20, 2007 Intermittent failures with no spark, i would syspoect the cam and crank sensors. Next time it happens, use an analog AC meter to check them for a heart beat. i think its the crank that determines spark, but dont remember off hand. nipper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonladymae Posted March 21, 2007 Author Share Posted March 21, 2007 OK, so I tried pulling the codes as someone had told me a way to do that. And when I plug in the black things under the steering column and turn on the ignition my check engine light just flashes. Now could that mean that it's telling me code 11? Or does it mean anything at all? If it is code 11 it's my crank sensor. Now my chilton manual says I need to remove the timing belt to remove the crank sensor. That's more work than I want to do. Do I really have to remove the timing belt to get to the sensor? Someone else said I just need to remove the alternator to get to it? Anyone whose replaced the crank sensor in a 93 legacy have any ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 OK, so I tried pulling the codes as someone had told me a way to do that. And when I plug in the black things under the steering column and turn on the ignition my check engine light just flashes. Now could that mean that it's telling me code 11? Or does it mean anything at all? If it is code 11 it's my crank sensor. Now my chilton manual says I need to remove the timing belt to remove the crank sensor. That's more work than I want to do. Do I really have to remove the timing belt to get to the sensor? Someone else said I just need to remove the alternator to get to it? Anyone whose replaced the crank sensor in a 93 legacy have any ideas? If you connect the test connector, but do not have the engine running, you will get code 11. Because the crank is not turning you get no signal. try to get it started with the green connectors connected and if you still get 11, or if you get code 11 in READ mode, (not u-check or D-check) then perhaps. I am not familiar with how to put a legacy into Read mode but that is what you should do. on Loyales and GL's it is done with the black connectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonladymae Posted March 22, 2007 Author Share Posted March 22, 2007 So, I haven't been able to pull any other codes out of my car yet. Just the steady flashing light when I plug the black connectors together and turn the ignition on. I haven't done the green connector test where you drive it aroud a bit. The car has started just fine the last 2 days. Except once today it would start and kind of chug a bit like it was flooded. It did that a few times then the third time I started it it ran fine. Any other ideas? Does it still sound like the crank sensor? Any suggestions on getting to the crank sensor? Do I need to remove the timing belt like the chilton book says? It doesn't seem like I need to. How can I tell if the ECU is bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 I would check the crank sensor and cam sensor AC voltages while trying to start the engine, at a time when the engine is working ok. Write down the results and hopefully you can get a baseline to compare to when the engine won't start. The problem very well be one of the sensors. I doubt the ECU is bad but it isn't out of the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 To get at the crank sensor, take the belt off the alt and ps pump, fully remove the bolt through the tensioner into alt. And move the alt out of the way enought to get a 10mm with an extension to the bolt holding it into place. The wires will feed under the coolant crossover pipe and plug in at the back of the motor. The connectors for the cam and crank look similar, IIRC one is black and one is white. The crank sensor should be checked for pulse with it still bolted into place, as nipper said, it has to read voltage as the motor turns. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moonladymae Posted March 24, 2007 Author Share Posted March 24, 2007 OK,silly question, so when I am checking for AC voltage on the crank and cam sensors do I connect the meter to the place where the sensors plug into or the actual sensors? I assume the connections are where to test. My mechanic said something about the ECU giving a code for the crank sensor awhile ago but that the code has disappeared. I am betting it is the crank sensor that is still giving me trouble. Although the car has been starting great for me the last few days, I don't trust it! Should I replace the cam sensor as well? I called Napa and they didn't have the sensors in a set, they come seperatley and are VERY expensive. Anyone know of somewhere I can order these sensors for a resonable price? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 To measure the voltage of the sensor place your probes across the sensor connections while it is connected normally and cranking the engine. Also check the connections to it for a bad connection. It may be that this problem is due to just a bad connection contact. You may be able find a used sensor from some of the members here. Check the Market Place forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psylosyfer Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 A while back My car suddenly "died" had spark at coil but not to plugs, Turned out that my 1 month old rotor went bad, the high voltage "punched through" to the shaft in the distributer, shorting it to ground. Never happened before or since! Sorry I missed that we are talking about an ej22, So rotor not applicable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86BRATMAN Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 A while back My car suddenly "died" had spark at coil but not to plugs, Turned out that my 1 month old rotor went bad, the high voltage "punched through" to the shaft in the distributer, shorting it to ground.Never happened before or since! This is a legacy. They have a coil pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psylosyfer Posted March 26, 2007 Share Posted March 26, 2007 This is a legacy. They have a coil pack. Whoops did not catch that its an EJ22 Sorry! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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