HELP! I look like a mosquito fogger!

[buzzcon]

I drive an '88 wagon, 5 speed turbo. It started leasving a cloud of white smoke, actually vapor, when I start it up, from a cold start. Once it warms up, it quits. At 1st it was using about a quart of coolent every two weeks. It started about a month ago, and has gotten progressively worse. Now it uses about a quart of water every 50 miles. I removed the manifold, cleaned the surfaces and put new gaskets on and replaced the hoses. The bolts on the passenger bank of the manifold were rusty and wet, so I thought I had solved the problem. No, It still smokes or steams or whatever! I cleaned the pcv, no help. When I remove the oil filler cap and the radiator cap, and place my hand over the oil filler pipe, the water sucks down, in the radiator and comes back up when I remove my hand. I can also hear a gurgling low tone sound at the oil filler pipe. I don't know if any of that means anything or not. The car doesn't overheat and it runs good and strong. There's no sign of water in the oil. I didn't see any air bubbles in the water, in the radiator. It smokes until it reaches 192 degrees. I can smell the steam, coming out the exhaust, after 192 degrees but I can't see it, so it's still coming out slowly. I don't know where to go from here. Somebody, please help.

Thanks ~Myles~

[Jerry DeMoss]

Head gaskets.:-\

[nipper]

On the positive side your engine will have one or two really clean pistons.

 

You have a blown Head gasket. Do not over heat the car, otherwise you may end up with scrap. Also do an oil change with the HG.

 

nipper

[mdjdc]

Try bypassing the turbo coolant lines and see if you have a turbo leak. You may be sucking in coolant there. It probably is a headgasket though.

[buzzcon]

I had a feeling that would be the answer. Okay, Suberdave told me about a florrescent dye that is used to detect leaks. Would it make sense to use it, to detect any cracks in the head, since I'll be pullling them anyhow? Also, is there anything special that I need to know? I've never done headgaskets before? Any particular type of headgaskets, better on turbos than others? Do I sound lost and alone? Sort of like a ? I guess I'll be doing a lot of posting this weekend. Thanks for the help.

 

~Myles~

[buzzcon]

Try bypassing the turbo coolant lines and see if you have a turbo leak. You may be sucking in coolant there. It probably is a headgasket though.

 

Thanks. I'll try that 1st. I won't be able to get to it till the weekend.

[Gloyale]

Try bypassing the turbo coolant lines and see if you have a turbo leak. You may be sucking in coolant there. It probably is a headgasket though.

 

First off that's a bad idea. For anything but a very temporary diagnosis.

 

Recently, I've had the chance to examine 4 different sets of Turbo heads. All but one of the 8 heads, had small cracks in the siamesed portion of the exhaust port.(not talking about the little cracks between valves in the combustion chamber)It is a small crack that runs perpendicular(across) the wall that divides the 2 exhaust ports.

This lets coolant into the exhaust, after the cylinder, so no coolant is being "burned". When cold, this water is forced throught the turbo(ouch) and out exhaust, in a mix with hot gasses hence the smoke. Once the engine is warm the coolant evaporates very quickly and you see no smoke I think this is you're problem. If you had blown HG's you'd smoke all the time. I don't think you're getting water in the Cylinders. You can examine it by removing the Crossover exhaust pipe, and looking into the exhaust ports. It will be on the outer edge of the exhaust port, right in the transition into the "siamese" wall

 

Good news is it is easily ground out and welded. Cost me $40 per head to get it welded(If you can find a good Aluminum wleder who will do it)

[daeron]

IF you DO decide to change the headgaskets, use fel-pro perma torque head gaskets. get the from autozone. cost to me in the store was $40, about the same they are shipped if you buy them online.

 

go to http://www.thepartsbin.com and order the cam case O ring. ASK ME QUESTIONS if you are concerned about getting the right O ring.

 

the headgaskets are NOT a difficult job, as long as you can label the bits you take off so they are all easy to plug back in during re assembly. I had my heads off in one day, spent about two hours cleaning them and the engine on another day, had the heads decked, and spent one more complete day assembling, timing and it cranked on the first shot.

 

It DOES sound like Gloyale might be on to your problem, though... you should be able to see antifreeze in the oil. By the way, that is a good idea.. go get a gallon of antifreeze (get the cheap stuff, but dont get the 50/50 mix) put the ENTIRE gallon into your radiator (drain water out if you need to first) Run for a couple of days or so, then drain your oil and look for antifreeze in the oil. Antifreeze shows up much better than water.

 

If you have no oil in your coolant, and no coolant in your oil, no bubbling, no overheating... head gaskets don't seem to be your problem.

 

Dealer intake manifold gaskets??? dealer only item there..... anything else is made of paper and will fail. Not Might fail, WILL fail quickly. ask prospeeder on this site, he had a pair last for about a month.

[Prospeeder]

Had the EXACT same problem, i even replaced my intake gaskets 2 times. I concluded it was cracked heads, and sold it before it got worse, because i stopped likeing the car anywho. What was funny, it stopped smoking right before i sold it, ha.......just my luck

[Gloyale]

I thopught I'd share pics of what i'm dubbing "ohh, the other place those crack" crack.

 

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/photos/showphoto.php?photo=14942&cat=500&ppuser=21475

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/photos/showphoto.php?photo=14943&cat=500&ppuser=21475

 

First one is what they look like dirty. Heard to see anything, but there is coagulated greren goo from coolant seaping through crack.

 

Second pic is cleaner, and you can see the crack clearly circled in red. The problem is that the coolant passage follows the contours of the V where the exhaust ports merge. The crack crosses through that passge. You don't ever get any "burned" coolant in the cylinder, or any coolant in oil. What you get is disappearing coolant and white smoke till warmed up. If they are really bad it can smoke quite a bit.

[buzzcon]

Thanks a lot, for all of the help. I'm gonna start on it Friday, and I'll check for the cracks 1st. I guess I'll change out the manifold gasket again, since I'll be down there anyhow. I bought it at Autozone. Live and learn, huh? I should've asked beforehand, I guess. Thanks for the pics. I'll let you know what I find out. I appreciate the help and am open to any advice you're willing to give. Thanks a lot.

~Myles~

[buzzcon]

Here's an update. I don't have it all torn down yet, but I loosened up the exhaust to the heads and started it up, and water 's coming out of the right exhaust port head. :-\ Stopped for a little break and now I'm back to the tear down.

~Myles~

[buzzcon]

Okay, so when I get the right head off, and get it welded, should I go ahead and pull the left head, and would it make sense to beef it up in the same area? Also, does anybody know what grade of aluminum, the heads are made of, for example there's 6000 series, 7075 series or 2024 series? So they use the right aluminum stick for the weld. I still haven't gotten the head off but that's the next step, which will be done today. Then I'll be back asking for a list of parts I'll need. Oh, I took the intake gasket off and pulled it apart. It was a cardboard gasket with metal in the middle. It was felpro, purchased at autozone, so is that as good as oem? I have to pull the intake anyhow, so I figured I'd replace the gasket again. Thanks for your help.

~Myles~

[misledxcracker]

everyone says OEM on the intake gaskets

 

and i'd take off the other head personally.. mind as well