POLL: 2 Coupled Engines

[Gravityman]

Hey Subaru Freaks!!

 

Here is a strange question for everyone.

 

I was contenplating on my next project, although far away. I was thinking of coupling 2 engines together mounting it in the middle or rear of the car and running it off of a single trans via the front half shafts, it would be RWD.

 

So here is the question.

What engines should I use. Based off of power, ease of locating (readly avalible, in tons of junkyards), model similiarities ie ER27 and EA82, same internals. It could be a 4 cyl and 4 cyl coupled, a 4 cyl and 6 cyl, a 6 cyl and 6 cyl. What ever. Here are the engine choices let me know if I missed one.

 

Here is the list.

Model----HP----Torque

EA-71 67 81

EA-81 73 94

EA-81T 95 123

EA-82 97 103

EA-82T 115 134

ER-27 145 156

EJ-22 130 137

EJ-22TT 160 181

EG-33 230 228

EJ-18 110 110

EJ-22 135 140

EJ-25 155 155

 

I would love to do an engine newer then this but $$$$$$$$$$$$ I dont have that many G's Unless I have sponser! Feel free to list newer engine models. I dont care if it is carbed, SPFI or MPFI let me know!

[nipper]

It should be two engines of the same size. Otyherwise it will be out of balance, and you can possibly overpwoer the weaker engine.

I would go with the 2.2L since the seem to be indistructable. I dont know if you can find two 6 cylinder engines.

 

nipper

[Gravityman]

I am not totally sure about this theory but a 4 cyl and a 6 cyl should be able to be coupled. An EA82 and ER27 both N/A would be able to be coupled. Both sets of internals and crank cams springs are all the same, no balance differences. The 2 engines when rotating together would power the entire rotating assembly the power would increase together with equal RPM. The only balancing you would have to deal with is rotational.

 

This is why I think it would be cool to try. I would need a good running ER27 and EA82. I would not use both stock ECUs on both engines seperatly. I would use a MegaSquirt.

 

Tell me It wouldn't be awsome to see an "EAR45"(EA82+ER27=EAR45)! That would be a 4.5L H10

 

I would love to see an EJ44 (EJ2.2 x 2)H8 or EJ50(EJ2.5 x 2) H8. I would like to see what that would do to the Ford 5.0!

 

I told you that I am crazy! I might actually try this. Who wants to help?

[86BRATMAN]

I told you that I am crazy! I might actually try this. Who whats to help?

 

, since this is the closest thing to a raise hand I see....

[nipper]

I am not totally sure about this theory but a 4 cyl and a 6 cyl should be able to be coupled. An EA82 and ER27 both N/A would be able to be coupled. Both sets of internals and crank cams springs are all the same, no balance differences. The 2 engines when rotating together would power the entire rotating assembly the power would increase together with equal RPM. The only balancing you would have to deal with is rotational.

 

This is why I think it would be cool to try. I would need a good running ER27 and EA82. I would not use both stock ECUs on both engines seperatly. I would use a MegaSquirt.

 

Tell me It wouldn't be awsome to see an "EAR45"(EA82+ER27=EAR45)! That would be a 4.5L H10

 

I would love to see an EJ44 (EJ2.2 x 2)H8 or EJ50(EJ2.5 x 2) H8. I would like to see what that would do to the Ford 5.0!

 

I told you that I am crazy! I might actually try this. Who wants to help?

 

Crazy people....

 

On paper you would not have as much power on two mis matched engines added together as you would with teo matched engines

 

Lets do easy numbers:

 

100hp (#1) + 100 hp (#2) = 200 hp

 

100hp (#1) + 80 hp (#2) = 180hp, except that the highe power engine would also be powering the lower power engine. So (remeber making things simple) output would be lowered by the break hp loss of the second engine to some degree.

The larger engine will be working harder and have alot more stress on it. Also the two engines will have differnt HP and torque curves, and can cxause issues with the fuel delivery. When one engine is getting on its power band, if the other isnt in its power band, one engine can be driving the other and causing all sorts of problems.

 

This is why whenever you see anything with two engines they are of the same size (unless one engine is only used for light duty slow speed operation).

 

nipper

 

PS i like the idea

[mikie]

Ive always liked the idea, 2 EJ20s to make a 4 litre flat 8

 

Dont overcomplicate the idea of 2 unequal engines - 100hp + 80hp = 180hp. Think of it as one big engine, with different camshaft lobes for some cylinders.

 

But - nagging doubt - if you put them inline how much loading is there going to be on the second crankshaft, will it handle it? Flat engines have particularly thin crank webs between journals. Maybe if the 2 engines are phased 90deg apart.

Unless the engines are identical the coupling between the engines will have to be along the lines of a rubber driveshaft coupling to minimise torsional viabration being transmitted between the 2 engines and destroying one.

 

Yous just going to have to do it to find out!

[Gravityman]

I have not done much research on EJ22's, do they have a good aftermarket? I would really like to see a EJ50!

[86BRATMAN]

I have not done much research on EJ22's, do they have a good aftermarket? I would really like to see a EJ50!

 

They have their share of parts. Not as much specifically for them as the ej20's but parts interchange pretty simply

[970subaru]

it is done all the time on the tractor pulling things with crazy blown nitro v8's and used to be done with dragsters.

it is a cool idea, just tough to implement in something streetable.

i would so help you if we werent 2000 miles apart.

[Gravityman]

Belive me I would love to be in CO right now. Colorado springs is my home when I am not in the military:eek:--:-\--. Its really only 1700 miles apart. I would get out of the military If I could find a job paying about $30/HR+ working on subaru's.

[Caboobaroo]

Belive me I would love to be in CO right now. Colorado springs is my home when I am not in the military:eek:--:-\--. Its really only 1700 miles apart. I would get out of the military If I could find a job paying about $30/HR+ working on subaru's.

 

Check with Super Rupair in Boulder, CO. I almost moved down there to work for them last year but decided I wanted to have my own shop instead:-p

[970subaru]

nice car, an independent subaru shop in ft. collins is hiring right now 21/hr I believe.

I'm going to apply just for the hell of it.

[Gravityman]

A 6.6 H6 would be the ultimate! But what would I drive it with? Has anyone used an STI trans on an SVX?

 

So what I would do is take an SVX body, couple the engines together with whatever trans I can find remove the back window and cut the roofline to drop down a couple inches behind the driver and passangers seat, enough room for a roll cage. Then fiberglass the back to look similar to the Ferrari 512. Their engines were 4942cc's and made about 440 HP and 368 lb/tq I figure with our larger displacement (6.6L or 402ci) over their 4.9L or 301ci using their 1.46 bhp/cu in we could make about 590HP naturally asperated and about 490 lb/Tq. I am all over this like white on a red head!

 

 

 

 

 

 

It would look something like this!!

 

 

Some one needs to photo shop this!!! Just the roofline change not the rear end and tail lights, that all stays the same! THIS WOULD BE FREAKIN SWEET!!!

 

 

Crunch these numbers!

 

SUBARU SVX

GENERAL:

Front-engine, 4-wheel-drive coupe

2+2-passenger, 2-door steel body

Base price $25,000/price as tested $28,250

 

ENGINE:

24-valve DOHC horizontally opposed 6, aluminum block and heads

Bore x stroke 3.82 x 2.95 in (97.0 x 75.0 mm)

Displacement 202 cu in (3317 cc)

Compression ration 10.0:1

Fuel system sequential multipoint injection

Power SAE net 230 bhp @ 5400 rpm

Torque SAE net 224 lb-ft @ 4400 rpm

Redline 7000 rpm

 

DRIVETRAIN:

4-speed automatic transmission

Gear rations (I) 2.79 (II) 1.55 (III) 1.00 (IV) 0.69

Final drive ratio 3.55:1

 

MEASUREMENTS:

Wheelbase 102.8 in

Track front/rear 59.1/58.3 in

Length x width x height 182.1 x 69.7 x 51.2 in

Curb weight 3525 lb

Weight distribution front/rear 60/40%

Ground clearance 5.3 in

Coefficient of drag 0.29

Fuel capacity 18.5 gal

Cargo capacity 8.2 cu ft

SUSPENSION:

Independent front, with damper struts, lower A-arms, coil springs, anti-roll bar

Independent rear, with dapmer struts, dual lateral links, trailing links, coil springs, anti-roll bar

 

STEERING:

Rack-and-pinion, variable-power-assisted

Turns lock to lock 3.1

Turning circle 35.4 ft

 

BRAKES:

Vented discs front

Discs rear

Anti-lock system

 

WHEELS AND TIRES:

16 x 7.5-in cast aluminum wheels

255/50VR-16 Bridgestone Potenza RE71 tires

 

PERFORMANCE (manufacturer's data):

0-60 mph in 7.6 sec

Standing 1/4-mile in 15.6 sec

Top speed 143 mph

Pounds per bhp 15.3

EPA city driving 17 mpg

Observed fuel economy 24 mpg

 

 

Technical specifications of 1994 Ferrari F512 M

bodywork

Type 2S FHC

Designer Pininfarina

Number of doors 2

Viewing specifications of 1994 Ferrari F512 M

dimensions & weight

Wheelbase 2550 mm 100.4 in

Track front 1524 mm 60 in

rear 1651 mm 65 in

Length 4480 mm 176.4 in

Width 1976 mm 77.8 in

Height 1118 mm 44 in

Length:wheelbase ratio 1.76

Ground clearance

Kerb weight 1455 kg 3208 lb

Weight distribution

(Front) 42.00 %

Fuel capacity 110

litres 24.2

UK Gal 29.1

US Gal

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Viewing specifications of 1994 Ferrari F512 M

aerodynamics

Drag coefficient 0.330

Frontal Area 1.87 m2

Cx 0.62

Viewing specifications of 1994 Ferrari F512 M

engine

Code

Manufacturer Ferrari

Type F-12

DOHC

48 valves total

4 valves per cylinder

Main bearings 7

Construction alloy head & block

Bore × stroke 82.00mm × 78.00mm

3.23 in × 3.07 in

Bore/Stroke ratio 1.05

Displacement 4942 cc

(301.579 cu in)

Unitary capacity 411.83 cc/cylinder

Compression ratio 10.40:1

Fuel system Bo 2.7 Motronic fuel inj.

Aspiration Normal

Compressor type N/A

Intercooler None

Catalytic Converter Y

Max. output

(DIN) 446.1 PS (440.0 bhp) (328.1 kW)

@6750 rpm

Max. torque

(DIN) 499.0 Nm (368 lbft) (50.9 kgm)

@5500 rpm

Maximum rpm

Coolant Water

Specific output 89 bhp/litre

1.46 bhp/cu in

Specific torque 100.97 Nm/litre

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Viewing specifications of 1994 Ferrari F512 M

performance

Note: A value of -1 means that

the car cannot attain that speed.

0-50mph (80 km/h) 3.30s

0-60mph 4.80s

0-100km/h

0-100mph 10.20s

80-120km/h

(50-70mph)

in top

0-Quarter-mile 12.70s

@ 112.00 mph

0-Kilometre 22.70s

@ 233.00 km/h

Top speed 315 km/h (196 mph)

Fuel Consumption 28.3/23.9/11.3 mpg UK 56mph/75mph/urban

CO2 Emissions

Power-to-weight 302.41 bhp/ton

[970subaru]

if the width wasnt an issue they might fit pretty nicely into a datsun 240z and run a welded center diff 5mt.

[Gloyale]

I think there is confusion. At least I'm confused. Are you talking aboput Physically welding toghether 2 engines into one? or are you talking about externally coupling the 2 into one drivetrain? I think welding toghether is the coolest Idea I've ever heard of? Didn't Subaru produce a flat 12 for Formula1 for a short time?

[WoodsWagon]

I have an Idea. Why not get an engine that is already coupled toghter? Nissan makes a decent V8 that would get the job done and still be fuji heavy industry.

[Gravityman]

I would imagine welding 2 engines together would be freaking awsome but in reality.... yea right!

 

I would be externally coupling them together. 2 seperate oil pumps, water pumps, cams, yadda yadda yadda. They would be connected at the cranks.

 

Yep they did with the 2.2 engine which would be about the same as this, 6.6

[Zefy]

if you really wanna make some sweet sweet power then why not go with a turbo motor? all the N/A motors have almost no aftermarket support... and you can get crazy power and torque #'s out of one turbo motor, why not 2?

 

you can pick up a JDM front clip for under 2 grand... get 2 of them... or get a couple wrecked wrx motors... i see them for sale at about the same price...

 

with that you're gonna be pushing about 440 with the motors combined... and i've seen the 2 liter pushed up to 450whp after getting a bigger turbo, injectors, intercooler, ect ect... if you're gonna go nuts then why not make a 1000hp ej40?

[kiwi subbie]

i like the sound of using 2 svxs in an svx body shell

[Gravityman]

if you really wanna make some sweet sweet power then why not go with a turbo motor? all the N/A motors have almost no aftermarket support... and you can get crazy power and torque #'s out of one turbo motor, why not 2?

 

you can pick up a JDM front clip for under 2 grand... get 2 of them... or get a couple wrecked wrx motors... i see them for sale at about the same price...

 

with that you're gonna be pushing about 440 with the motors combined... and i've seen the 2 liter pushed up to 450whp after getting a bigger turbo, injectors, intercooler, ect ect... if you're gonna go nuts then why not make a 1000hp ej40?

 

Think about this. 2 SVX motors with either 2 or 4 turbos mounted on it, probably 2 large turbos. Leave the compression ratio stock for really good low end and run about 4-5lbs of boost for middle and high end. Why stop with a F-8? Still sounds like fun though. The biggest thing is I need a car to put it in.

[Scott F]

You're like me, working on one crazy project, and dreaming about the next. I would rather see a dual drivetrain 4WD, with two engines and two trans. This could be neatly accomplished in a BRAT or similar. The trans rear output could be used for a PTO winch. I don't know how one would synchronize the rpms, or even if it would be necessary. Obviously throttle and shifters would be synched.

 

If you gang two engines, you may need to use a big American auto trans to handle the power. That all adds up to a very long drivetrain.

[s'ko]

Think about this. 2 SVX motors with either 2 or 4 turbos mounted on it, probably 2 large turbos. Leave the compression ratio stock for really good low end and run about 4-5lbs of boost for middle and high end. Why stop with a F-8? Still sounds like fun though. The biggest thing is I need a car to put it in.

size of that Ferrari motor that you pictured. So we are looking at 5 feet of engine.

Then tranny then of you want to put AWD.....

 

Stick w/a 4 banger. Otherwise

 

Keep the ideas coming.

 

BW

[nipper]

size of that Ferrari motor that you pictured. So we are looking at 5 feet of engine.

Then tranny then of you want to put AWD.....

 

Stick w/a 4 banger. Otherwise

 

Keep the ideas coming.

 

BW

 

Tw engines in an SVX? one driving the front wheels, one driving the rear?

 

nipper

[970subaru]

something along the lines of this thing would be my first choice of coupled EJ's or EG's. would be pretty cool and imagine what that would sound like.

[kiwi subbie]

thats so cool