Bucky92 Posted April 11, 2007 Share Posted April 11, 2007 :banana: And he is running much much cooler now :banana: ..Long short....he got way hotter then I was happy with coming home from work today..So I said there is no way I can keep running him like this...I stopped at the Subaru dealer and ordered a new OEM thermostat...wont be in for a few days ...so I came home tested the fans ..both work when jumped to the battery...cleaned the contacts on the sensor that tells the fans to turn on..drained,removed,flushed...flushed...flushed the radiator..wasnt dirty ar all and was in extremely good physical shape..then I desided to swap out the thermostats..I have an aftermarket one I was just going to run till the OEM one comes in..when I pulled out the old one some of the rubber didnt look the healthiest...and the aftermarket didnt match up to my likings. So I figure it wont hurt to run Rock for a couple days without a thermostat until the good one comes in. Buttoned him all back up...warmed him up for about 10 minutes then took him for a couple mile HARD drive ....WhoooooHooo..temp was at a hair less then 1/4!! And Rocky seemed to feel much much better. Anyway ..I am happy..Rocky is Happy and right now I love my XT6 again! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Good!! I dont even use a thermostat, but I live in south florida. If you never noticed, i took those godawful rust pictures of my car in late december and the lawn and trees were still as green as could be.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subaru_dude Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 isn't that TOO cool for the engine to run at? it seems like the engine wouldn't operate as efficiently as it normally would because it wouldn't expand as much as it would at full temp. and the oil does it's job best at full tempt too doesn't it? correct me if i'm wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milemaker13 Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 You could be right, that may be a little cool. I have heard once or twice about no thermo... can't quite remember... Anyway, pop that OEM in when you get it, he'll be feelin' fine after that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 isn't that TOO cool for the engine to run at? ... Well... I Think that it isn´t too Cool, ´cos I Run my EA82 Everyday without Thermostat and with a Double Line Radiator, the temp hardly reaches 1/4 (Except when I´m stuck in a Traffic Jam, when goes Near to the Half) and I Just Noticed that my Subie Feels More Powerful. Also HeadGaskets will Last Longer! As Far as I Know, the Idea of Maintain the Engine´s Temp at the Half with the Thermostat, is to make Cathalythic Converters Work, so is a Just Environmental Reason. but Maybe Thermostats will Help an Engine who Works on Very Cold Climates... Bucky: Good Job, Well Done! ... I Like your Subie! Maybe you can Consider the Idea of Left it Without the Thermostat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted April 12, 2007 Author Share Posted April 12, 2007 Actually from the research I have been doing ..1/4 or slightly below is normal.. Mine was running on the high side og half topping out about 1/8 inch below the hot....definately too hot for a head gaskety issue prone car. My Loyale runs barely off the cold and thats with a thermostat in itand is at 1/4 when its on the hot side. From talking to some of the XT6 experts out there I really dont have to worry about putting the thermostat back in till next winter when I want some heat...I want to replace my one thermo sensor and a relay yet..if that doesnt get the fans kicking on I will wire the main fan to a switch and manually turn it on....Just dont want to be doing head gaskets on a 23,000 motor yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idosubaru Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 don't diagnose the fans without the thermostat in. if the T's are staying low, it won't ever get hot enough for the fans to kick in. so you'd end up wiring in a switch you never needed. test the fans with the thermostat in place and when the engine is hot. i saw two thermosensors in my garage, i can send you one if you'd like. i've seen two different kinds, one has a small length of wire and an electrical connector and the other type has no wire and just some prongs that a plastic clip plugs into. not sure why there are two types, but it's easier to make sure you get the right one. i think i have both, if you want one of my spares, let me know which one you have and i can send one to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted April 12, 2007 Share Posted April 12, 2007 Actually from the research I have been doing ..1/4 or slightly below is normal.. Mine was running on the high side og half topping out about 1/8 inch below the hot....definately too hot for a head gaskety issue prone car. My Loyale runs barely off the cold and thats with a thermostat in itand is at 1/4 when its on the hot side. From talking to some of the XT6 experts out there I really dont have to worry about putting the thermostat back in till next winter when I want some heat...I want to replace my one thermo sensor and a relay yet..if that doesnt get the fans kicking on I will wire the main fan to a switch and manually turn it on....Just dont want to be doing head gaskets on a 23,000 motor yet Bucky: Here is a much better idea than simply wiring up a switch.. The thermosensor has two prongs on it, right? wire a switch into those two prongs, so that your switch is masquerading as the thermosensor AND it is a breeze to go back to the factory configuration. I just have a jumper wire in place of my thermosensor, so my fan comes on and goes off with the key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooziewhatsit Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Best thing I ever did for my sanity was order one of these: http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=86 (infrared, no-touch thermometer) Now, I know that when my 88 GL is 1/8" from HOT, it's really right at 190*F. Also, I know that my 91 loyale (which barely comes off the cold mark) is just fine also. I don't trust the gauges in these cars at all. -Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subie_newbie Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 About thermostats: they have a few purposes so let me go over them. Others chime in what I've forgotten if you know. 1. They stay closed when the car is cold, letting the 1.heater work faster and 2.warming up the engine faster, to keep you from breaking cold parts and let the choke open faster and thus run less rich/more efficient. Number 2 there is a bit of a throw back to V8 carb'd days, but it still holds true for fuel injected - if the engine doesn't reach the right temp the computer will stay in open-loop mode and maintain a very rich mixture 2. They regulate the temperature of the engine *fairly* efficiently no matter what the ambient temperature is. Engines run efficiently at about 160 - 180 degrees F, and if you're fuel injected that's where the comp. is set to work correctly at. This allows for a clean burn at stoichiometric fuel ratios, relatively dense air charge etc etc; it's a good compromise. Loyale 2.7 Turbo, you're right that no thermo can make your car faster/more powerful, but thats because lower temps mean a more dense air charge and, if your f.i. is in open loop, more rich mixture 3. Thermostats create a resistance point in the cooling system, forcing there to be a pressure differential point beyond the pump, and this helps reduce air pockets in the engines water jackets. Air pockets can cause 'hot spots' that can lead to all sorts of bad. I've ran many an old V8 without thermostats, and the old coddgers I knew always told me it was a bad idea for the reasons above and probably others. I never saw any problems because it always kept my POS's cool and happy, but in theory it's a bad idea. I still dont run one on my 93 Corrado, but it's an overheating bastard and deserves what's eventually coming to it (whatever that may be) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 About thermostats: they have a few purposes so let me go over them. Others chime in what I've forgotten if you know. 1. They stay closed when the car is cold, letting the 1.heater work faster and 2.warming up the engine faster, to keep you from breaking cold parts and let the choke open faster and thus run less rich/more efficient. Number 2 there is a bit of a throw back to V8 carb'd days, but it still holds true for fuel injected - if the engine doesn't reach the right temp the computer will stay in open-loop mode and maintain a very rich mixture 2. They regulate the temperature of the engine *fairly* efficiently no matter what the ambient temperature is. Engines run efficiently at about 160 - 180 degrees F, and if you're fuel injected that's where the comp. is set to work correctly at. This allows for a clean burn at stoichiometric fuel ratios, relatively dense air charge etc etc; it's a good compromise. Loyale 2.7 Turbo, you're right that no thermo can make your car faster/more powerful, but thats because lower temps mean a more dense air charge and, if your f.i. is in open loop, more rich mixture 3. Thermostats create a resistance point in the cooling system, forcing there to be a pressure differential point beyond the pump, and this helps reduce air pockets in the engines water jackets. Air pockets can cause 'hot spots' that can lead to all sorts of bad. I've ran many an old V8 without thermostats, and the old coddgers I knew always told me it was a bad idea for the reasons above and probably others. I never saw any problems because it always kept my POS's cool and happy, but in theory it's a bad idea. I still dont run one on my 93 Corrado, but it's an overheating bastard and deserves what's eventually coming to it (whatever that may be) I would like to add agreement to ALL of the above, from another hypocrite running without a thermostat. If I lived 200 miles further north (read: cape cnaveral/daytona beach/orlando area, still well south of most everyone in the US) I would NOT be running without a thermostat. I ONLY do it because "freezing cold" means 45 degree to me, and it takes about 90 degrees at 80 percent humidity to make me say "its hot." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted April 13, 2007 Author Share Posted April 13, 2007 Reason number 1 for me to run without a thermostat right now...the OEM one will not be in for about a week...only have 1 driveable car right now...drive without a thermostat and keep the car cool...or option 2 blow a head gasket..then i would have no driveable cars right now. I have been doing minor work on all my cars for at least 25 years now and know the pros and cons for running with/without a thermostat. I am the queen of redneck engineering because like others on this board...do not have alot of money so you have to make due with what you have. If this thread is going to turn into a major issue about to run or not to run then I will ask one of the mods to just close it and delete it... I was just trying to state that I finally got my XT6 to cool off before any major damage was done.My cooling fans are NOT working and that problem is still being looked into..I have tested the fans ...I have tried to see if they will come on BEFORE I removed the thermostat..AFTER flushing the system.. checking fuses and cleaning contacts. I would prefer to not be driving this car right now in this state but since I cannot get any help getting the major brake work done to my Loyale ( which is above my current ability since it is involving replacing the complete rear wheel assemblies) I am forced to run the XT6. I do find it funny though that on XT6.net I am being told I did the right thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 relax, connnie, we are just quoting the "right" way of doing things for posterity's sake, that is all...... we BOTH said that neither of us have a thermostat in right now, didnt we?? as we say down south, its all gravy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 ... Loyale 2.7 Turbo, you're right that no thermo can make your car faster/more powerful, but thats because lower temps mean a more dense air charge ... You´re Right! Not Only No Thermostat in my Subes, Also No Heather Core. (I Bypassed it) I Think that can make the Water Pump do Less Effort to Move the Water Thru the Engine, so I Think there´s a Li´l Amount of Power Gained by That Too. ... I was just trying to state that I finally got my XT6 to cool off before any major damage was done. ... ...I do find it funny though that on XT6.net I am being told I did the right thing... I Think That You did the Right Thing Too... That´s what I Tried to Say... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted April 13, 2007 Author Share Posted April 13, 2007 as we say down south, its all gravy :slobber: MMMMMM Gravy :slobber: Hey...you 2 know you are in my group of favorite USMBers right... And JesZek....tossing in something extra in your CT care package..hand made by me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted April 13, 2007 Share Posted April 13, 2007 Oh, Thank You Connie!!! ... You´re Soo Kind!!! You´re in my Favorite Members Group Too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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