Axle Help - UPDATED 4/21 - New video

[idosubaru]

you have the transmission labeled correctly.

Part one is the transmission stub shaft (stubby shaft, axle stub).

 

looks like the wrong axle to me.

 

you need the right axle and you need to hope that your stubby shaft is still useable and not too badly damaged. if it's an automatic the stubby shafts pull right out no problems. i'd probably get another set and install them, thye just pop in and out. yank it and it comes out, pop another one in. if it's a manual trans those stubby shafts really aren't replaceable...well they are but it's a huge job and not one you want to do incorrectly.

 

i would wonder if the other side is the right spline count as well, that can ruin the hub assembly if it's the wrong axle.

[ZRX Doug]

WOOHOO! Do I get a cookie for guessing the problem?

 

Go beat the tech who installed that thing over the head with it, and make damned sure they pay for any damages to your stubs caused by their incorrect axle installation.

[Gloyale]

Please, Correct me if I´m Wrong: I Just Counted 22 ...

... I Just Changed one Axle on my 1985 White Wagon, and this is a Photo of it:

 

 

You're counting right, but that is where the Axleshaft goes into the inner CV portion. I was reffering to the count of the stub coming out of the side of the transmission. it's either 23 or 25(25 on turbos only)

[Sonicfrog]

WOOHOO! Do I get a cookie for guessing the problem?

 

Go beat the tech who installed that thing over the head with it, and make damned sure they pay for any damages to your stubs caused by their incorrect axle installation.

 

Hey, you need to share that cookie. I was right there with you!!!

[subie_newbie]

+1 for smacking the tech at that shop you got the axles replaced at. I can see a newbie at home doing that, but someone that replaces axles all day should notice the gigantic amount of difference between the 23 spline and 25 spline.

 

Tim, I know you hate to do it, but drag your rump roast back down to that shop and make them replace that axle with the right one. Check the other side, too, and make sure the axle isn't all sloppy at the tranny. It would suck to force them to replace one axle to have the other fail 10 minutes later.

[Tman_567]

Ok if I'm going to go back and confront this guy i want to have my facts straight. I need to know exactly what to say to explain it to him. Answers to possible questions he might ask me would be helpful too.

 

I would like to be sure he did it wrong before i go tell him so.

 

He knows i don't know squat about cars.... How do i go in and tell him he did it wrong?! :-\

[Tman_567]

Hey guys. I have a video.... I just want to be SURE i know what the problem is before i accuse anyone of anything.

 

Hope this confirms your diagnosis...

 

http://s27.photobucket.com/albums/c193/Tyler_987/?action=view&current=zzzzz-1.flv

 

I hope its helpful.

 

Are there any "tests" i can do to help confirm that it is in fact a wrong axle?

 

Is there anything else that could be causing these same symptoms?

[ZRX Doug]

Dude..I don't need to see the video. You already DID the "tests" to confirm the axle is wrong..basically, in the simplest terms I can come up with, the hole in the new axle(s) is larger than the shaft that it's supposed to attach to. The fit should be nice and tight, not sloppy like you've found yours to be.

The inner CV is incorrect in the pic you took. He had the wrong axles in stock, and he installed them without bothering to check the fit of the inner spline.

Have your vehicle towed back (DON'T flat tow it with the front wheels on the ground, it'll just screw up the splines on your tranny's output shafts more) and read my first post in this thread..heck, print it out and take it with you if ya want.

The bottom line is that you are in no way at fault..they installed the wrong axles in your vehicle. You need to take it back and show them their error, they are obligated to fix it by law. If they have caused further damage to your transmission (probably not, but it's possible) then they are also responsible for repairing that.

If they refuse, they'll still end up paying for fixing it at a reputable shop..it'll just take longer and you'll have to play games in small claims court or with the better business bureau..but my guess is that they'll look at it, say "Doh!" and smack their foreheads like Homer Simpson..followed immediately by them bending over backwards to make it right before you take legal actions.

 

The only real question is whether the original problem is fixed..odds are pretty good that you still have a stripped hub on the right front wheel.

I gotta tell ya..I'd like a piece of the "mechanic" who did this installation for you..he failed to notice your damaged hub, he failed to see anything wrong with the oversized inner CV spline before, during, and after an installation that must have been made pretty difficult by the fact that he was trying to pin together two components of differing diameter & spline count, and lastly when his makeshift "repair" crapped out, he failed to bother to just LOOK at it and realize his error. This guy is either stoned or retarded..no way he's a licensed mechanic.

[subie_newbie]

I'll try and answer in as clear-language as possible so you have a good way to talk to the mechanic:

 

Subarus of the eighties came in two varieties (for this matter), turbo and non-turbo. Turbo cars had different output shafts to the front axles than non turbo cars. The turbo cars used 25 spline (read: groves you can see when you look at the shaft coming out of the transmission; there's 25 of them) and non turbo used 23 spline. At the wheel end of the axle they are both the same.

 

The 25 spline is bigger around. Sooooo, if someone were to put a turbo (25 spline) axle on a non turbo (23 spline) car, it would fit into the wheel end properly and then SLIP OVER the transmission end, but be too big and not engage the transmission at all.

 

Here's the important part: at the transmission, these axles are held in with a little piece of metal, called a roll pin. It's ONLY job is to keep the axle from sliding off the transmission hub, to hold it from going in and out. The splines are supposed to take the rotation force.

 

Here's what happened to you (it happened to me, too). They slid the 25 spline axle over the 23 spline tranny, easy because the axle is much bigger, and then pounded that roll pin in. As soon as they tried to engage the tranny, that roll pin broke and made all kinds of noise, and they assumed bad tranny. That's what you've been seeing that will 'catch' every once in awhile, the broken part of that roll pin catching on one of the splines from the tranny.

 

Here's the good news: it almost never messes up the transmission. I drove one for 40 miles at 55 with an incorrect axle and broken roll pin and no damage.

 

They should just be able to get the correct axle and install it. As has been mentioned, you may still have a striped hub out at the wheel. Also, there's a good chance they installed the wrong axle on the other side, too. Go grab it and see if it will 'wiggle'. Of course, the roll pin is still solid on that side so it won't be nearly as loose as the broken side, but if it's the wrong one you will be able to wiggle it a little, kind of rotating it around the roll pin. If it's the correct one, you won't be able to budge it.

 

You don't owe them any more money for this. In fact, they should be giving you BACK the labor charges for the axle install since you had to tow your car all over the damn place to figure out their mess up. But I doubt that'll happen. Best scenario: they replace the axle, and if you have a stripped hub find you one of those and install it for parts cost only. I would STRONGLY recommend asking to talk to the owner, whom probably isn't ever there, instead of talking to the grease jockey who may have taken part in this mess up the first time. The owner will be much more likely to want things put right than the guy that messed up. If this is a shade-tree operation, you may be lucky to get them to replace the axle they messed up.

[subie_newbie]

I thought I'd add this, too. If you get totally hosed in the deal and the mechanic tell you to go pound sand, there are a ton of people in your area who know their stuff and would probably be willing to stop by your house and donate a half-hour to showing you what's what so you can replace it yourself. Particularly after this fiasco. If the time comes, just ask!

[ZRX Doug]

I agree with most that Newbie said above except for the "if you get hosed" part. These guys are obligated by law to correct their mistake and to pay any expenses directly caused by their error (towing, tranny damage).

DO NOT let them off the hook, no matter how hard they wriggle..guys like this give real mechanics a bad image, and my image is crappy enough as it is without making my (ex)job look sleazy too.

:-p

[ZRX Doug]

Bump..

 

And, so..wha' hoppen? Did you go back with your best righteously angry customer face and rip 'em some new, um..solid waste holes?

[Tman_567]

I'm going in tomorrow....

[Tman_567]

So the owner was super cool.

 

He ordered the right part (i hope :-\ ) and said he would put it in for no additional charge.

 

I asked him to tow it but he said no.

 

Towing cost $70.

 

They are going to put them in tomorrow.

 

Oh ya. The other axle was wrong as well. Both of them were wrong but only the drivers sides pin thing broke.

 

_tim

[Gloyale]

Glad to hear it! :clap: :headbang: :grin:

 

I figured they were gonna have trouble getting out of such an obvious mistake.

 

He totally should pay the towing as well. both times. towed home, towed back right? They didn't even bother to look hard enough, sent you away saying "we can't do anything". If they had looked harder they could have found the mistake and fixed it without towing anywhere. Better yet, if they had noticed the terrible slop when installing the oversized axle(I CAN"T BELIEVE THEY DIDN"T) then you would have just gotten the right ones before anything got broke. You got enough to go to small claims for the towing both ways.

[subie_newbie]

I agree. If you're up to it, threaten small claims for the towing. Once the axle is in and the car is home. But, of course, be willing to go through with it!

[ZRX Doug]

Yeah..walk it to 'em. Any towing caused by their mistake is their responsibility. Such is the law..

Did you get a new right front hub, or at least inspect the old one yet? It makes sense to replace it now while they've got it torn down..half the job is done already.

(Assuming the hub's damaged, don't see how it couldn't be judging by your first video)

[mikeshoup]

Just have him put the axles in and see.

 

Seems to me from that first video, you can see the outer CV. It could have broken which would've caused that. I *doubt* its a bad hub.

 

When they change the axles, just ask them to inspect the hub and make sure its not bad. It should've been really obvious when they took the old one out in the first place.

[daeron]

I don't want to sound belligerent; it is NOT my way. I really, hate to suggest you go so far as small claims court for ~140, 150 dollars for a towing bill... but still, you should twist this guy's walnuts a little. I would go in there satisfied that he is taking care of the car, and thankful.. but still rather upset that he is not paying for the tow bill. This IS DEFINITELY a serious case of utter ineptitude, it is NO different from medical malpractice except in that it was a car and not a human being. What would you do if your vet gave your dog a cat vaccine and it went into non-fatal allergic seizures?? Would you be satisfied with him re vaccinating the dog, or would you want him to treat the animal in it's emergency for free?

 

At least get the guy to pay for the tow bill back to the shop so they can fix things. He should have a tow truck service he can call and get the tow taken care of for you without having to pay normal rates anyhow.