DirtPirate Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 OK. I spent some time searching last night...so maybe someone can help me out here. 1990 Loyale Automatic...How do I time this thing? I saw where someone said that you have to time it via the flywheel...but as far as I can see...the flywheel is completely encased within the bellhousing??? I am getting some hellacious spark knock out of this thing...but have not been able to figure out (last night at dusk when I was messing with it) how to time it. For reference, I have been working on Fords, Chevy's, Dodges and Jeeps for over 30 years (almost all of my life)...so I am not a complete mechanical newbie...but I am not completely accustomed to working on these Subes... By the way...a pictures worth a thousand words... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misledxcracker Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Yes, you check timing on the flywheel. I failed CA smog because of the fact the technician did NOT know how to check my timing... yeah, lame i dont have pix handy, but i'll tell ya how to do it. Take out your spare tire first... Look down in the middle of the bellhousing, by where the trans and engine meet, sorta close to it there should either be a hole with the flywheel right there, and a notch showing you where the timing should line up. theres numbers on the flywheel, so just line up the number with that little notch if you dont see it, there MAY be a rubber cover on it, a black one... lift it off, and then there it is. the usual, hook up the light to #1 cylinder (passenger side front) hook up light to battery, and point 'er at the flywheel. turn the disty, im sure you know how to do it... timing's simple on these cars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted April 30, 2007 Share Posted April 30, 2007 Also, since your 90 Loyale is SPFI, connect the green connectors under the hood and in the back driver's side corner of the engine bay. This puts the ECU into diagnostic mode and locks the timing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtPirate Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 Also, since your 90 Loyale is SPFI, connect the green connectors under the hood and in the back driver's side corner of the engine bay. This puts the ECU into diagnostic mode and locks the timing. Can you elaborate on this? I know... Doggone Soob Newbs... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Not much to elaborate. Look in the back driver's side corner of the engine bay, right below the wiper motor I believe. Find the green connectors that are unplugged, plug 'em in. Start the car. (You'll get some weird things like the fuel pump cycling before you crank it, ignore this.) This will lock the timing and keep the ECU from advancing it. That's it. There's actually a whole procedure you can do with those connected to verify all of your sensors are working, and it basically involves doing fancy things to the car that normally would make those sensors activate. There's a whole procedure in a factory service manual (FSM) to do this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtPirate Posted May 1, 2007 Author Share Posted May 1, 2007 Not much to elaborate. Look in the back driver's side corner of the engine bay, right below the wiper motor I believe. Find the green connectors that are unplugged, plug 'em in. Start the car. (You'll get some weird things like the fuel pump cycling before you crank it, ignore this.) This will lock the timing and keep the ECU from advancing it. That's it. There's actually a whole procedure you can do with those connected to verify all of your sensors are working, and it basically involves doing fancy things to the car that normally would make those sensors activate. There's a whole procedure in a factory service manual (FSM) to do this. Thanks...I gotcha now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davalos Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Any tricks or quirks to adjust the timing slightly to improve the mileage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 ahhh.. geee.... In reading this thread I was reminded for the umpteenth time that #1 cylinder is NOT the one I would intuitively think it is... I always think that DRIVERS side front is number one.... so now I get to thinking about when I did my headgasket.. and I, for the LIFE of me, CANNOT recall whether I went with my intuition, and set my timing light onto #2 spark plug wire, or if I did the sensible thing and put it on the ACTUAL #1 wire... Now, I was reading EVERYTHING step by step right out of the book, and actually re clocked my distributor to the proper setting (it had been incorrect before, from when i did the T belts when I first got the car.. but I can't say how it WAS clocked.. I know my spark plug wires actually FIT after I re assembled per FSM directions, so I know i did it RIGHT..) and got it to fire up on the first shot.. tweaked it down to right at 20*, etc... but seriously, my problems couldnt possibly be that I set my timing on the #2 cylinder by mistake, could they?? I mean, i have plenty of situations where the engine seems to be running perfectly normally.. I SERIOUSLY cant imagine I did this.. BUT like I said, I cannot definitely recall doing it right, and I know I always WANT to call the D/S cylinder #1... even though I know darn well that its the P/S... I *should* be able to just rotate my spark plug wires all around 180 degrees and double check for this, right? the timing light was my uncles, and he is in the hospital right now so going to his place and borrowing his light again isnt really feasible... Sorry for the hijack, but this thread was what started making me nervous about this. Seriously, I CANT have done what I am talking about.. I just CANT.. but I cannot be sure without double checking now. My memory is rather good, but its not good enough to be able to recall whether I made a SUPER dumb mistake two months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 In reading this thread I was reminded for the umpteenth time that #1 cylinder is NOT the one I would intuitively think it is... I always think that DRIVERS side front is number one.... Actually, #1 and #2 fire at the same point in relation to TDC (since their strokes are 360 degrees apart), so you can time off of either of the front cylinders. Convention though is to time off of #1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Actually, #1 and #2 fire at the same point in relation to TDC (since their strokes are 360 degrees apart), so you can time off of either of the front cylinders. Convention though is to time off of #1. heh, i should have thought again about my firing order; a big loud DUH of relief here. thanks. that makes perfect sense now.. and to think, i was genuinely WORRIED there for a moment.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misledxcracker Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Actually, #1 and #2 fire at the same point in relation to TDC (since their strokes are 360 degrees apart), so you can time off of either of the front cylinders. Convention though is to time off of #1. Wow, I didnt know that! You learn something new every day... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robm Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 I found 22-23 degrees advance seems to give better highway mileage, without any pinging up hills or arouond town under acceleration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Actually, #1 and #2 fire at the same point in relation to TDC (since their strokes are 360 degrees apart), so you can time off of either of the front cylinders. Convention though is to time off of #1. Uhh, no. Becuase Cylinders 1 and 2 are 180 apart, relative to cam position. If you try to time off of 2, then the valves would have to be set this way as well. You would have to reclock the disty to work either way. You cannot simply do *either or*. It will only run one way. If you installed belts and disty to FSM specs, your number one on the cap should be at the back. If you're #1 is going to the front of the cap, you are 180 off. This is kinduv just nitpicking though, cause if you DID set it up 180, and then timed off of 2, The engine WOULD still be in time. So Mike is somewhat correct. DUUUHHH!! see my later post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeshoup Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Uhh, no. Becuase Cylinders 1 and 2 are 180 apart This is not correct. 180 degrees apart would put cylinder 1 at TDC when cylinder 2 is at BDC... Since cylinders 1 and 2 are the both front cylinders on opposite banks, they are sort of 360 degrees apart in physically, putting them both at TDC and BDC at the same time. 3 & 4 are 180 degrees apart from 1 & 2. Or perhaps you're thinking of sequence on the distributor? I'm talking physically on the crank here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 Uhh, no. Becuase Cylinders 1 and 2 are 180 apart, relative to cam position. I was talking relative to the cams, and disty by extension. Just cause a piston is at TDC, does not mean it is the correct time to fire. You cannot simply time off either 1 or 2. You have to time off the one you have set to be on it's compresion stroke for that disty position. I wasn't saying you were wrong about 1 and 2 being 360 at the crank. I was saying that that fact alone does not make it so you can time off either. You can time off of 2, but you would have to install the disty 180 from the specified location. It won't run otherwise. DUUUHHH!! see my later post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 this post DUUUUUHHHHH!!!! *bows down in humbleness* to MIkeshoup I get it now. You are right. The Crank and hence the marks will be at TDC for either spark. You could time off of either provided the disty and cams were synched properly. I feel foolish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted May 1, 2007 Share Posted May 1, 2007 okay, MAJOR apologies to the original poster for the hijack I committed.. but it IS good to see i am not the only one capable of the DUH here and there. I dont indulge in my "air conditioning" THAT much Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtPirate Posted May 2, 2007 Author Share Posted May 2, 2007 okay, MAJOR apologies to the original poster for the hijack I committed.. but it IS good to see i am not the only one capable of the DUH here and there. I dont indulge in my "air conditioning" THAT much Ah...no problem....all good information... I did find the "port" on the bellhousing....and I pulled that little green plug apart and found the contacts to be quite corroded...so I cleaned those up... Where is the temp sending unit on this thing? I think it may be acting up.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted May 2, 2007 Share Posted May 2, 2007 Ah...no problem....all good information... I did find the "port" on the bellhousing....and I pulled that little green plug apart and found the contacts to be quite corroded...so I cleaned those up... Where is the temp sending unit on this thing? I think it may be acting up.... There are actually 2. The one that the ECU reads is on the passenger side, front portion of intake manifold. Right near the therostat cover/top radiator hose. It has 2 wires with a green or black connector. There are several threads going right now about how to check it. search. The other one sends to the gauge on the dash, only. That one has a spade with a single wire attached, and is a bit smaller. BTW, the green *test* connectors should only be connected for timing or diagnostic. Disconnect them for normal driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtPirate Posted May 8, 2007 Author Share Posted May 8, 2007 There are actually 2. The one that the ECU reads is on the passenger side, front portion of intake manifold. Right near the therostat cover/top radiator hose. It has 2 wires with a green or black connector. There are several threads going right now about how to check it. search. The other one sends to the gauge on the dash, only. That one has a spade with a single wire attached, and is a bit smaller. BTW, the green *test* connectors should only be connected for timing or diagnostic. Disconnect them for normal driving. Wait...APART??? I thought I read on here that they needed to be together to run...and apart to diagnose... DOH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtPirate Posted May 8, 2007 Author Share Posted May 8, 2007 Also, since your 90 Loyale is SPFI, connect the green connectors under the hood and in the back driver's side corner of the engine bay. This puts the ECU into diagnostic mode and locks the timing. Guess I was thinking backwards the other day...SHEESH! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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