88 GL SPFI No Spark? BURN THIS THING.

[SuBrat84]

1988 FWD SPFI GL I picked up on the cheap because it wont start. Got the fuel flowing. No spark. Code 23. Can't figure it out. Code 23 (Air Flow Meter) shouldn't shut down the spark? How to a voltage test the coil properly? With the key on and the common on a ground.. i get 12v+ on both sides of the coil. Shouldn't one side of that coil be ground and the other side be positive? I.E. I should be able to put common on neg terminal of coil and lead on pos terminal of coil and get 12v+.. right? Doing some reading I think I may have a short situation inside of the wiring somewhere. I can't go look at it right now and after a long time of searching I'm getting too tired. I want some opinions from you guys! Thanks a bunch. Let me know if you need more info I might have left something out.

[Skip]

Doubt the MAF has anything to do with the error.

Reset the ECU via the instructions

HERE

 

The no spark might be the ignition amplifier

(often mistakenly called the ignitor)

located on the coil bracket under the coil.

 

This switching power transistor amplifies

the signal from the ECU.

 

This is why the coil does not show voltage readings like

some of the other older systems.

[naru]

 

Wrong,that won`t work on any car,unless it has points(what are they?) and they happen to be closed.12 V at both locations is proper.

 

Checck the ignition amp w/the diode check function of a DMM.

[SuBrat84]

I hooked up the two connectors under the hood (green and white) turned the key on.. 6 flashes. Turned off. Unhooked. Now am having 11, 13, 34. 11 and 13 are the same? Crank angle sensor or circuit. and 34 is EGR Solenoid or circuit. Does this give anymore clues? Still no spark, tried 3 different coil/amplifier sets in there. Ohms are between 10-11 in the coils.. is that normal? I have a craftsman dmm but I don't know what you mean to test the amplifier? the wiring to the amplifier is getting 12v+. It is actually about a half a volt weaker than at the battery. Would the ecu from a 91 loyale be the same? I am ready to just start swapping parts/wiring from the loyale because it ran but had a clakity motor.

[Cougar]

The problem is most likely due to either a bad CAS which is in the disty, the ignition amplifier, or the wiring between the disty and the ECU. I would try changing the CAS first if it is the same as the 91 model. I doubt the ECU is bad but it is a possibility. Be sure fuses 5, 11, 12, and 20 are good and have power when the ignition is on also.

[SuBrat84]

Well supposedly it has a brand new disty in it.. but I will mess with it. I pulled every single fuse and they all look good. I will start testing if they all are getting voltage. So I'm going to try disty, ecu, then wiring... I guess. Still open to suggestions and opinions. Thanks again guys.

[Gloyale]

Well supposedly it has a brand new disty in it.. but I will mess with it. I pulled every single fuse and they all look good. I will start testing if they all are getting voltage. So I'm going to try disty, ecu, then wiring... I guess. Still open to suggestions and opinions. Thanks again guys.

 

Has it ever run with the new Disty? Perhaps the wrong one was installed. If someone put sa carb model disty in there it won't work. What does the dist look like under the cap? Can you see a magnetic pickup? Or is it just a flat goldish color plate?

 

Should be Hitachi part number D4P84-03. Used in SPFI and later style MPFI.

 

Note: FSM has warning to "NEVER USE CHAMPION PLUGS WITH SPFI" just a thought

[SuBrat84]

changed out disty made no difference.. battery started dying so i hook it up to a running vehicle... the coil and starter got HOT. Like don't touch hot. That means it's a short somewhere or what? I got it spark a little bit too.. but stuff started getting hot so fast it scared me. It was sparking through the coil wire.. but more like shorting and not a strong spark. I was getting 12v+ through the coil to disty wire.. is that normal?

 

Edit: PN on the two disty I have are both D4P86-03

[Gloyale]

Edit: PN on the two disty I have are both D4P86-03

 

You've got 89+, non turbo MPFI XT distys. I am not sure if they will work. I'm digging through the FSMs for the XT and your 88 to compare

 

Edit. There is a difference in the p[osition of the wires in the connector!!!. Swap the Black and White wires in the harness connector I never new about this difference!

[Gloyale]

Wait don't swap any wires yet! There is a difference, I am just trying to track it down, it is basically a difference in the connectors. But in the 88FSM, the *fuelinjection* section shows the wires as one set of colors and the *electrical# section shows another. What color are the wires in your harness that connects to the Disty?

[Gloyale]

Wait don't swap any wires yet! There is a difference, I am just trying to track it down, it is basically a difference in the connectors. But in the 88FSM, the *fuelinjection* section shows the wires as one set of colors and the *electrical# section shows another. What color are the wires in your harness that connects to the Disty?

 

 

Well. Regardless of the wire colors.

When looking at the harness side of the Disty connector, with the lock tab up. The upper left, and bottom right wires are opposite between GLs and XTs. You probably want to swap connector on the disty to match your car, rather than modify the cars harness as I said earlier.

So that means on the disty side of the connector, swap the upper right and bottom left. Hopefully you have not fried you're ECU because the difference is basically swapped signal and ground wires from the ECU.

[SuBrat84]

I THINK I understand what you're saying. Even the metal bracket that holds the coil to the body is getting 12v so i think it makes sense.. i hope i hope *crosses fingers*

[Gloyale]

Well. Regardless of the wire colors.

When looking at the harness side of the Disty connector, with the lock tab up. The upper left, and bottom right wires are opposite between GLs and XTs. You probably want to swap connector on the disty to match your car, rather than modify the cars harness as I said earlier.

So that means on the disty side of the connector, swap the upper right and bottom left. Hopefully you have not fried you're ECU because the difference is basically swapped signal and ground wires from the ECU.

 

Further update: This is so tricky to figure out. I am not even positive these distributors will work for you. They from an MPFI

I am trying to compare but since the ECU's are differnent it is hard to track down which wires are what

 

You should have these wires in you're harness

Green/yellow wire

Green/Black wire

Black wire

Black/white wire

[SuBrat84]

Further update: This is so tricky to figure out. I am not even positive these distributors will work for you. They from an MPFI

I am trying to compare but since the ECU's are differnent it is hard to track down which wires are what

 

You should have these wires in you're harness

Green/yellow wire

Green/Black wire

Black wire

Black/white wire

 

These are the wires on the car side of the connect... on the disty side they are solids red, white, green, black

[SuBrat84]

Further update: This is so tricky to figure out. I am not even positive these distributors will work for you. They from an MPFI

I am trying to compare but since the ECU's are differnent it is hard to track down which wires are what

 

The one I just pulled out of a 91 loyale SPFI and it worked in there just fine... the connecters were different though so i swapped the connector from the old disty into the one from the loyale...

[SuBrat84]

Green/yellow wire = ??????????

Green/Black wire = ?????????

Black wire = ???????

Black/white wire = ????????

 

That is what I need to know. if the harnesses were the same I would be okay because someone DID switch the green and white on the loyale to make that disty work.

[Gloyale]

OKAY, heres more.

I am holding a Disty like your (d4p86-03) in my hands. And looking at the 88 FSM. I think I can tell you the excat colors of the wires you should swap on the Disty side to make it work.

Disconnect the connector to the disty.

 

Measure the Black/White wire for voltage, with key on should be greater than 4 volts. This wire needs to go to the White wire in the Disty.

 

Measure the Green/Black wire of harness. Should have Greater than 10v. This needs to be connected to the Red wire of disty

 

Black wire shuold have continuity to ground. Connects to the black wire of disty

 

I can't find a spec on what measurment the Green/yellow wire should have. But it should end up connected to the Green wire of disty

 

Basically you should switch the position of the white and green wires on the disty connector.

 

This is the real answer that i am sure of. If this contradicts an early statement, it's because I was still trying to figure it out. But for sure The White and green Wires are in opposite positions dp484 vs. dp486

[SuBrat84]

the connector was never wrong. It is in there just how you said it should be. I think the PO took the wire harness off the old disty and put in the new disty to make it be okay... turns out ones of the wires to the amp was starting to break.. it finally broke and I think i will be functional. pending.................

[Gloyale]

Cool. At least we have figure out for anyone else in the future that to use an MPFI disty(D4p86-03) on an SPFI(D4p84-03) or vice versa, the green and white wire on the disty need to be swithced.

[SuBrat84]

At least we're learning something. This problem has nothing to do with the Disty or the way it hooks up. BOTH wires going to the amp thingy are 12v+.. is that right? seems wrong? the only way I can get these coils to spark is because it's allowing 12v+ to flow through it from the amp.. it's shorting out... this is a nightmare. Three of four of a cluster of solenoids under the dash were very hot too... i guess i need to track down this short.

[SuBrat84]

With nothing else hooked up except 13.5v from a running car the Starter gets very hot. Is there... what the... oh my... I'm so confused. Please help before I just junk this thing.

[Gloyale]

At least we're learning something. This problem has nothing to do with the Disty or the way it hooks up. BOTH wires going to the amp thingy are 12v+.. is that right? seems wrong? the only way I can get these coils to spark is because it's allowing 12v+ to flow through it from the amp.. it's shorting out... this is a nightmare.

 

Okay, start over. First off, All the FSMs call it a "power transitor ignitor" and say it amplifies the signal from control unit(ECU). But none of teh Diagrahms call it that. They show a "condensor", but I think that is what we are talking about.

For some reason it's not ncluded in the diagrahms for SPFI til 90(Loyale) It shows in the other years I have (86,88,89,89XT) under the MPFI diagrahm, but is not shown in the SPFI diagrahm, although the same coil is speced for both.

 

At any rate. I just took some measurments from my car. It's MPFI but it seems they are the same. The Black/white wire going into the "power transitor ignitor" was getting 12v. The yellow/white wire in the same connector had .13v. If you have 12v there, then that could be the issue. That wire is the signal wire from the ECU, it connects to terminal 52 of the ECU. You could disconnect the "power transitor ignitor" connector, and disconnect the ecu connector. Then test if there is continuity end to end. Also test for continuity to ground.

 

Also the "power transitor ignitor" measures 2.5Kohms resitance across the 2 terminals. I measured 2 of them and they where the same.

[Gloyale]

With nothing else hooked up except 13.5v from a running car the Starter gets very hot. Is there... what the... oh my... I'm so confused. Please help before I just junk this thing.

 

???? do you have the Battery cables switched? If not you have a short it seems.

[SuBrat84]

I had the cables hooked up to the battery terminals (not the battery ones, but the cars one) and nothing else.. no battery (well, the one in the running car) coil not plugged in disty not plugged in alt not plugged in starter relay not plugged in. none of those shorting out, key off... Only thing hooked up was power to starter, power to fl box, and ground. Starter was getting hot.

[Gloyale]

Are you saying the starter is getting hot even with the key in the off position?

 

Check for continuity betweeen the positive battery cable and the body of the starter. And since you got this car not running, you don't know what someone else did. Double check that the Battery cables are hooked up to the starter and the engine block properly.