88 GL SPFI No Spark? BURN THIS THING.

[Gloyale]

Okay, remember someone talking about the Diode function of the amplifier? This is the deal. A diode only lets current flow one way. Continuity will only exist with the Multimeter leads hooked up Positive to the W/y terminal, and negative to the B/w terminal. If you envision the connection as a *T* then Pos to the upright, and Neg to the top. If you reverse the test leads there should be no continuity. I got 2.5Kohms. That was measuring on the 20k ohm scale. but apparently It varies depending on which scale of the multimeter you use? But at any rate the continuity exists only one way. This is the mesurements with the leads from it still hooked to terminals of coil. If you unhook it altoghether there wil be no resistance. Not sure why but that's how 2 known good ones are testing.

[SuBrat84]

07/87 makes it an 88 right? Oh well I'm giving up. I'll probably just part it out I guess.

[Gloyale]

07/87 makes it an 88 right? Oh well I'm giving up. I'll probably just part it out I guess.

 

I believe so, but it'd be the same setup regardless. Perhaps different pins at the ECU. I only have Sec. 2 and 3 of the 87 FSM, both for the DL/GL and also for an XT but I don't have section 6(electical) for either in 87

 

First thing , with no battery connected, is there any continuity between the Positive cable and Ground? Key off? Key on? Do you know any more about what the last last yokul did to it to try and fix? or when it stopped working? This has me intrigued, I want to know what the deal is. When you swapped coils, did you swap just the coil or the whole assembly with the "power transitor ignitor" too? That is still what everyone including me thought right away, and the FSM marks it as the "very likely" cause of a no spark in the general troubleshooting chart. Next in line is the Crank angle sensor(back to the disty thing, sure it's right?) Hope you get it goin. Get some rest start over in the morning. It'll go easier then.

[Gloyale]

07/87 makes it an 88 right? Oh well I'm giving up. I'll probably just part it out I guess.

 

year based on the Tenth character of vin #

 

85=F

86=G

87=H

88=J

89=K

[SuBrat84]

First thing , with no battery connected, is there any continuity between the Positive cable and Ground? Key off? Key on? Do you know any more about what the last last yokul did to it to try and fix? or when it stopped working? This has me intrigued, I want to know what the deal is. When you swapped coils, did you swap just the coil or the whole assembly with the "power transitor ignitor" too? That is still what everyone including me thought right away, and the FSM marks it as the "very likely" cause of a no spark in the general troubleshooting chart. Next in line is the Crank angle sensor(back to the disty thing, sure it's right?) Hope you get it goin. Get some rest start over in the morning. It'll go easier then.

 

With the negative terminal connected, put common in that. No cont on + cable to start. ~11 ohms on all 4 FLs. The last yokul did everything he could think of. I think his original transitor is toast because I can't get a reading off of it. the other two trans are reading over 200k ohms.. the one in my xt6 is reading both ways 26k and 33k the other way.. the xt6 runs.

 

EDIT: It says H ... how could it be an 86 if its man 07/87?

[Gloyale]

EDIT: It says H ... how could it be an 86 if its man 07/87?

 

Sorry, I looked at the letters for 88,89 and filled in the rest alphabetically cause I was being lazy and didn't want to open the other books. Forgot they skipped I to avoid confusion with 1. I went back and looked in the 86 and 85 books and edited the original list in red accordingly. It seems it is technically still an 87

 

AS far as the "yokul", sorry no offense to him if he's a friend. I was just making a point not to assume any of the cars condition.

[SuBrat84]

Nah just some guy on Craigs list. Said he replace everything twice except the fuel pump, which was also bad by the time I got the car. Had a pump laying around. Pumps fuel just fine.. put new gas in it.. hope i get it going before the gas goes stale. I'm just going to tear into the dash tomarrow when I get home from work. I found some wires that had been smashed under something.. so there is potential for a group of wires to be all cut somewhere. I don't suppose you have a link for pin-outs so I can start testing for ..... arrg this sounds tedious. Good night.

[Gloyale]

I don't know of anyway to get 87 pinouts online. 87 seems always to be a PITA year as it is the oddball of all of the EA82 bunch. I hope some other folks are reading this thread. I've got all the diagrahms and at least an MPFI car to compare to. But I don't have the car your're workin on. And Someone else has got to know more about testing the Amplifier/Ignitor. Seems to me that you very well may have a short, possibly in that circuit? You certainly should not have 12v on the W/y wire in the *T* connector going to the Amplifier/Ignitor

[daeron]

I have an 87, it isnt exactly RUNNING right, but its 87 SPFI NA. I've been skimming the thread, but alot has been kinda, in one ear and out the other stuff to me... What would need to be checked? I can be a test mule by all means, but I dont know what you need. You say jump, I say how high...

[Gloyale]

I have an 87, it isnt exactly RUNNING right, but its 87 SPFI NA. I've been skimming the thread, but alot has been kinda, in one ear and out the other stuff to me... What would need to be checked? I can be a test mule by all means, but I dont know what you need. You say jump, I say how high...

 

I don't quite know? Perhaps repeat the test I did. Mesure for voltage at the wire going tho the *Transamplifignitormabob*.. LOL.. You know the thing we're talking bout on on the coil bracket. And what colors are they? B/w and W/y?

What voltages do you get on those wires?

[daeron]

I don't quite know? Perhaps repeat the test I did. Mesure for voltage at the wire going tho the *Transamplifignitormabob*.. LOL.. You know the thing we're talking bout on on the coil bracket. And what colors are they? B/w and W/y?

What voltages do you get on those wires?

heh.. tomorrow.. my DMM is out of commission right now.

[Cougar]

Attention! The reason the starter is getting hot is because the main battery cable tied to the solenoid has a internal short on the connection stud. Remove the starter and repair it.

 

 

Sorry for the big print but this is very important. I think the stud bolt on the solenoid that ties to the main battery cable is grounding out on the inside of the solenoid. The bolt head inside can twist and make contact with ground if it is twisted too hard. With the starter cable disconnected from the battery check the resistance of the lead to ground. If it is shorted you may be able remove the short without removing the starter by loosening the stud nut holding the cable to the solenoid. Then twist the stud until the short goes away. Retighten the bolt and make sure it isn't shorted.

 

After this is repaired then check to see if the coil body has 12 volts on it. If it does then the ground leads to the engine need to be checked for problem. They may have been burned due to the short.

[daeron]

Attention! The reason the starter is getting hot is because there is a internal short on the main battery cable to the solenoid. Remove the starter and repair it.

 

I should have thought of that.. if I werent having a headache from my own car I probably would have. Although, he DID say there was no conductivity between the + battery cable and ground... but it could have been a multimeter ranging issue keeping him from seeing it. If the meter is on high ohms range, and the conductivity is low, the meter would register zero when there could be conduction anyhow. Sometimes a test light is best, ground it to ground and touch the probe to the housing of the starter. do it in the dark, so you can see dim light from the bulb...

[SuBrat84]

The starter is not what is shorting out. But I will replace it will the loyale one just to be safe. When I ohms tested the started was ZERO L that means NOTHING. When I ohms tested the wires going to the fuseables they were all getting 11 ohms through the ground.. there is a short somewhere and I bet it's under the dash.. I'm going to go dig into it right now.

[SuBrat84]

Okay.. I haven't replace the starter.. but since I don't know what else to do I will do that and see if it makes a lick of difference. The positive terminal on the starter is the only place it seems that does not get continuity to the ground. However, the starter RELAY does. But even with that disconnect i still continuity everywhere else.

 

1/3 to 1/2 of all the stuff running to the ecu is getting continuity through a ground. I used a seat bolt as my ground. I don't think that much if anything from the ecu should be getting continuity to ground. I tested like this with the ecu unplugged. Battery unplugged. Made sure anything anywhere that seemed like it would matter was not touching anything.

 

Edit: How long would it take me to blow this motor up if i used it as a long block for my RX?

[Gloyale]

The starter is not what is shorting out. But I will replace it will the loyale one just to be safe. When I ohms tested the started was ZERO L that means NOTHING.

 

Zero ohms is full continuity. If you got no reading at all, or infinite resistance that would be no continuity. If you have zero Ohms resistance between the starter terminal and ground, there is the problem. Many off the pins of the ECU will measure continuity to ground, you are basically measureing the resistance of the internal circuits of the ECU. Seriously, swap that starter.

[SuBrat84]

When the multimeter is not touching anything it reads 0.0L.

That means there is NO continuity. If I touch the two prongs together on the multimeter it reads 00.0000 with no L. That is perfect continuity, no resistance. The starter is NOT the problem. It reads 0.0L not 0. It is 100% disconnected. Should I be getting ohms all across the fuseable link box like this?

Edit: I wasn't measuring the pins on the ecu. I was measuring the wires that GO TO the ecu. (Ecu disconnected completely.)

[Gloyale]

When the multimeter is not touching anything it reads 0.0L.

That means there is NO continuity. If I touch the two prongs together on the multimeter it reads 00.0000 with no L. That is perfect continuity, no resistance. The starter is NOT the problem. It reads 0.0L not 0. It is 100% disconnected. Should I be getting ohms all across the fuseable link box like this?

Edit: I wasn't measuring the pins on the ecu. I was measings the wires that GO TO the ecu.

 

Okay, I was not familiar with you're multimeter. Mine shows a 1 when there is no continuity(infinite resistance). Either way, measuring the wires going to the ECU would stil yield some continuity to ground. Now if you unplug all the connectors at the ECU, and disconnect the sensors like TPS, MAF, CTS... then measure those wires for continuity, those wires should not have continuity to eachother or to ground(except obviosly the ground wires for those sensors, but all the others should be O.OL) I hope I'm being helpful, and not sending you on goose chases. It's so hard to pin down wireing issues over the net.

[daeron]

define "starter relay"

 

My subaru is the only one I was aware of that HAD a starter relay, since I put it in....Check for continuity between the solenoid terminal (the one with the wire coming from the keyswitch on it) and ground..

 

The fact that you get continuity to ground on the fusible link block is bad; there is definitely a short there. somewhere. go from there, and trace things down.

 

The ECU itself does alot of switching to ground... but quite frankly, I am in over my head in terms of trying to help you remotely..

 

I might be able to help if I were there, but thru the web I am worthless... I'll keep checking the thread to see if theres anything I can check on my car as a reference, but once again its dark out.

[SuBrat84]

define "starter relay"

the solenoid terminal (the one with the wire coming from the keyswitch on it)

There is two wires on the starter. The one from the positive lead of the battery and the one from the key. I call it the starter relay because i don't know what stuff is called.

 

Edit: By the way... I have torn all kinds of wiring apart now and disconnected a multitude of stuff. I am still getting all kinds of crazy ohms readings all the way across the fusable link box.. it's never less than 10 ohms and sometimes in the M ohms range. So... I just don't know what I'm going to do with it now.

 

Edit Edit: Ground wires are always 0 if not very close to 0 ohms. Stuff I think should be no continuity gets mad ohms reading usualy in the hundreds or thousands.

[daeron]

okay... you should be checking for continuity, not ACROSS the fusible link block, but between the block and ground. I presume that is what you have been doing (rather than checking from one side to the other) but I figured I would make that clear.

 

Have you tried unplugging your ignition switch??

 

You should NOT see any connection between the solenoid signal wire (your "relay") and ground... that much is for sure. The only place that wire goes to is back into your ignition switch. Try unplugging that; it would make sense if that were the only major short you have. (i should have figured what you meant by "starter relay," but I didn't. Im not trying to nitpick, just going for clarity, thats all )

 

To my mind, a major short in the ignition switch Could cause there to be grounding present at the fusible link block, at the solenoid wires, and at many of the terminals of the ECU harness... so give that a shot.

[MilesFox]

is the timing belt broken?

[SuBrat84]

okay... you should be checking for continuity, not ACROSS the fusible link block, but between the block and ground. I presume that is what you have been doing (rather than checking from one side to the other) but I figured I would make that clear.

 

Have you tried unplugging your ignition switch??

 

You should NOT see any connection between the solenoid signal wire (your "relay") and ground... that much is for sure. The only place that wire goes to is back into your ignition switch. Try unplugging that; it would make sense if that were the only major short you have. (i should have figured what you meant by "starter relay," but I didn't. Im not trying to nitpick, just going for clarity, thats all )

 

To my mind, a major short in the ignition switch Could cause there to be grounding present at the fusible link block, at the solenoid wires, and at many of the terminals of the ECU harness... so give that a shot.

 

You are correct in assuming I am doing it correctly. I have not tried unplugged the ignition switch.. you mean the one in the steering column, right? all this is getting continuity with the solenoid signal wire disconnected and not touching anything as well as a bunch of other things... I hope its a bad ignition.. that would make this whole fiasco so pleasant.

 

(By all the way across.. I meant all 4 terminals.)

[SuBrat84]

is the timing belt broken?

 

No.. would it matter? wouldn't the coil still spark even if it was? Or does it spark because of the CAS or something?

[daeron]

the coil would not spark if the belt were broken; it would not get a signal from the CAS to spark. so yes, it matters.

 

Yes, I mean the one in the steering column.

 

Good to hear you were doing it right; i figured as much but had to check.

 

If that is a no go, try pulling fuses one at a time and search for your continuity to ground to disappear. When you pull a fuse and find that your short is gone, then you have isolated what circuit it lies in. you may well pull all the fuses out and not find your problem, but that is the next step.