SuBrat84 Posted May 8, 2007 Author Share Posted May 8, 2007 Have you tried unplugging your ignition switch?? FOR THE WIN!!!! :banana: :banana: :banana: I wasn't sure which one exactly it was. So I unplugged all 4 or five that went up into that area and NO CONTINUITY! Yay!!!!! I am just going to change the whole steering column with this one out of an 86 turbo coupe! BRAAAAAAAAAP! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 look tyo see if the rotor is turning while cranking. if not, then there is your problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted May 8, 2007 Author Share Posted May 8, 2007 look tyo see if the rotor is turning while cranking. if not, then there is your problem Belts are fine.. they both turn and i can see that cam turning with the disty out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 FOR THE WIN!!!! :banana: :banana: :banana: I wasn't sure which one exactly it was. So I unplugged all 4 or five that went up into that area and NO CONTINUITY! Yay!!!!! I am just going to change the whole steering column with this one out of an 86 turbo coupe! BRAAAAAAAAAP! I wonder if the wire bundle going to the switch is crushed somehow in the tilt mechanism? I have had this happen before but not so bad as to produce a short. But the routing of the wires in the column is pretty tight and only needs to get a little screwy before it gets caught in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I am a little puzzled about the starter still. You stated that it was getting really hot and I assume it wasn't even running at the time. The battery was dieing also. This indicates that a short was happening internally. The problem may have burned itself out. Make sure there is no resistance between the main battery lead to the starter and the engine block. The resistance test you did at the fusible link block may or may not be valid. I wouldn't start tearing the steering apart just yet. At least until the circuit that has trouble on it can be pinned down further. By removing fuses you can find out where to look for the trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I am a little puzzled about the starter still. You stated that it was getting really hot and I assume it wasn't even running at the time. The battery was dieing also. This indicates that a short was happening internally. The problem may have burned itself out. Make sure there is no resistance between the main battery lead to the starter and the engine block. The resistance test you did at the fusible link block may or may not be valid. I wouldn't start tearing the steering apart just yet. At least until the circuit that has trouble on it can be pinned down further. By removing fuses you can find out where to look for the trouble. A short in the ignition switch could cause low amperage to be traveling into the solenoid constantly, eventually heating it up. I feel good, I made a difference today! So now, you have to tell ME whats wrong with MY car... (j/k) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 This may not be over. Should the alternator be getting continuity through the battery terminal..? because my brat motor does it too.. and as far as i know that motor ran before i pulled it out. I haven't replaced the column or anything yet because now I'm not even sure that's the problem.. because when I tried hooking up the positive lead to the alt then i got continuity again... this is getting stressful. My dad is going to be here in 3 days I was hoping he could drive this car around. I feel like I'm chasing phantoms.. or like maybe I just don't know how to use a multimeter.. or how a cars electrical systems works.. or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 I think it's going to be okay.. different column seemed to help. *Crosses Fingers* However, I had to use the loyale column because the turbo coupe aparently has different connectors. I'll start putting it all back together tomarrow after work. So now, you have to tell ME whats wrong with MY car... (j/k) So, let's hear it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 The main output connector of the alternator is indeed directly connected to the positive battery post through a fuseible link, which is there for protection if the alternator output gets shorted. There is also a number of other things that tie directly to the battery. Before you start ripping out wires you need to find out what is really causing any problems. I would first try to find out what happened with the starter and why it got so hot. You still need to tell us if there is any continuity between just the main starter cable and the engine block. If there is, the starter solenoid needs to be repaired. Once that is verified to be ok then you need to see how much current draw the battery has with everything like it would be when the car is parked over night. If the current draw is less than 80 milliamps then you are good to go and can start checking the ignition system again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 The main output connector of the alternator is indeed directly connected to the positive battery post through a fuseible link, which is there for protection if the alternator output gets shorted. There is also a number of other things that tie directly to the battery. Before you start ripping out wires you need to find out what is really causing any problems. I would first try to find out what happened with the starter and why it got so hot. You still need to tell us if there is any continuity between just the main starter cable and the engine block. If there is, the starter solenoid needs to be repaired. Once that is verified to be ok then you need to see how much current draw the battery has with everything like it would be when the car is parked over night. If the current draw is less than 80 milliamps then you are good to go and can start checking the ignition system again. Heed every word of this, just because you found *a* short doesn't mean it was the only one...Read this post a couple of times and make sure you have crossed all this off the list, ESPECIALLY the current drain check. And quite frankly, be prepared for the ECU to be fried; it is a non-zero possibility. I wouldn't go so far as to say likelihood; but from what I hear tell bad voltage issues are one thing that *will* kill them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 For the third or fourth time, I'm sure. THERE IS NO CONTINUITY ON THE STARTERS POSITIVE LEAD OR THE STARTERS BATTERY CABLE. I really do think now that it is/was the ignition.. and I already am half way done putting everything back together. I'm also fairly sure the starter, among all those other things, were getting hot because it was the easiest place for electricity to go without blowing fuses. Regardless if the ecu is fried or not I have 4 more of them. I don't think it is though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 For the third or fourth time, I'm sure. THERE IS NO CONTINUITY ON THE STARTERS POSITIVE LEAD OR THE STARTERS BATTERY CABLE. I really do think now that it is/was the ignition.. and I already am half way done putting everything back together. I'm also fairly sure the starter, among all those other things, were getting hot because it was the easiest place for electricity to go without blowing fuses. Regardless if the ecu is fried or not I have 4 more of them. I don't think it is though. My point was that there may well be OTHER shorts, outside of the starter, and you need to check current draw from the battery before you decide you have fixed the problem, thats all.... *I* am satisfied about the starter, didnt want to bust you about that anymore, but any number of other wires could have melted their insulation because of your ignition switch problem. Check for any current drain off of the battery once you get it in. I have had a car burn because I was ignorant of a second short that had occurred.. it didnt burn to the GROUND, but my Z has been sitting with a crispy fusible link block, and the wipers halfway up the windshield, TOTALLY dormant for 2 1/2 years because I was too hasty in repairing a shorted wire. I am lucky that the fire happened in my driveway, when a couple of kids were playing baseball in the street; they were kind enough to run up to my front door and holler "hey, your car's on fire!" in time for me to save it. Good to hear you've got spare ECUs, I hate to be gloom-and-doom about it but its a real chance, thats all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 Okay, well. I put everything back together and it all seems to be testing out okay.. except I'm only getting 10% voltage to the coil. (1.3) where it should be ~13. Nothing else is getting hot except three of four resistors or transistor or whatever those little cylinders are under the dash. So, still no spark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted May 9, 2007 Author Share Posted May 9, 2007 It was just a fuse. Everything is back together and doing the same exact thing. That makes it not the ignition. I am going to just start jacking parts off of the loyale until something changes... starter next i guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Have you checked to see if the wires that run between the disty and the ECU are ok? If you have voltage on both sides of the coil and have voltage getting to the disty then the problem is has to be with either the CAS, the ECU, the ignitor, or the wiring between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
subie_newbie Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 I would like to add one little side-note to this thread: when checking resistances in any circuit with a light bulb, be it a headlight or a dummy light, dash lights or the glove box light, you will NOT get infinite resistance. Any coil/transformer will work the same way (such as those in relays or the ignition coil itself). I saw awhile back he stated he's getting resistances in the tens of thousands of ohms - beware you're probably seeing some circuit board or relay coil and not a true problematic short. Think in the tens of ohms when looking for major problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Burn Mine along side of it.. I am getting seriously pissed off at this bloody car. If I had a few more bucks I would just start throwing parts at it... but as it is I want to just get my Zcar running, and dammit.. my Z needs more attention than "just get it running" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted May 10, 2007 Author Share Posted May 10, 2007 I am seriously if I cannot get this car running by this weekend I will use this block in my rx and blow the ************ out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 10, 2007 Share Posted May 10, 2007 Gentlemen, gentlemen....please! Let's not get carried away here. After all, we are talking about good Soobs here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted May 14, 2007 Author Share Posted May 14, 2007 Okay. I know I'm a stubborn Lazy Aaaa Hole. But I've been sick ever since. THE STARTER: There is a positive terminal. There is a terminal that a wire from the igntion hooks on to. The IGNITION WIRE TERMINAL is getting perfect (0.000) continuity to the body of the starter. This is with the starter sitting on my counter, so not hooked up to anything. I know I keep saying I'm going to put a different starter in there I just want to run this by you guys and see if you think that sounds like my whole problem? Edit: Nevermind. I tested two others and they both do it too. Aurrrg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 That terminal is connected to a coil of wire and will show a low resistance to ground normally. When power is applied to the terminal it becomes a electromagnet and pulls the solenoid shaft in to engage the starter motor. Power should only be going to this terminal when the key is in the START position. The best way to test that is to apply power to the terminal and body ground. The starter solenoid should move then. The lead I was concerned about being shorted was the main lead to the battery, but you said it was not shorted to ground so it appears that is not a problem. In the past I have seen that lead short out due to a problem inside the starter with the stud bolt holding the wire contacting the starter body. This causes tremendous sparks naturally when trying to connect the starter up to the battery. Since you stated the starter was getting very hot and the battery was dieing this all added up to a shorting problem in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misledxcracker Posted May 14, 2007 Share Posted May 14, 2007 If you burn it, be sure to take video! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 where are you at with a short at this point? AND can someone else chime in with an answer to this: is ALL power to the car fed through the fusible link block? For the purposes of the FIRST part of this post I am going to assume that the answer is yes... the way to detect a short is, first, check resistance between positive battery terminal and ground. If you get anything more than infinite resistance, pull FIRST the fusible links, one at a time. at least one fusible link should eliminate your continuity, but it may take more. When you find one that eliminates your short (read: you pull a link, and your resistance between pos. cable and ground goes to infinite) then install the other ones and confirm that they are not giving you any continuity to ground. So, assuming that one of your fusible links, when removed, DOES eliminate this short, you have isolated the circuit it is in. Chances are rather high that its going to be in the circuit that feeds power into the fuse box, and from there out into the rest of the car. I cannot recall what each of the links do; but report back and you should get some help identifying which circuit it is.. PART TWO, regardless of whether all power is fed thru fusible links.. Now, either you have found that the link feeding power to the fusebox isolates your short; or I was wrong (meaning that power is fed straight from the battery cable to the fuse block inside the car, and NOT thru a fusible link first) and NONE of the fusible links isolated your short. In any case, the next step is to pull fuses, one at a time, until all your fuses are out. You stated earlier that you had pulled a fuse, and your short went away; THAT means that your short is in the circuit supplied by that fuse. From there, it is a matter of testing, starting at the fuse block, for continuity between a "hot" wire and ground. SOMEwhere there is something frayed, touching metal, and screwing you up. I call them "magic wires" and they are OH so much fun to track down, but it is just a matter of patience and time with your multimeter to find it. post back up here; I was gone for several days and I am lost on where you are at with this situation. You kinda need to step back, take a deep breath, and start from square one. You had a break from the f#$kin thing for a few days; pretend you havent done anything and proceed logically, first to the fusible links, then to the fuse panel. Remember, pulling a fuse or a link, and finding that your short is gone, means you have isolated the circuit in which your short is located. Once you do that, you can ignore ALL wiring other than the circuit connected to the fuse in question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted May 15, 2007 Share Posted May 15, 2007 Well, to start I'll say *yes* all the power to the interior fuse box and everywhere else goes through the fusible links. The one thing that get's power without going through a fuse is the Pos lead to the Starter. The flaw in you're logic is that many of the sensors, switches, and motors and such will show continuity to ground. Say like an electric motor or a light bulb. You can measure across it's + and - terminals and there is continuity. Infact if there isn't continuity on these types of things then the bulb or motor is shot. Becasue of this the method you described for tracking down the short circuit by circuit won't work. Say he measures fusible link 1. this supplies power to the Ignition relay. But the relay, being an electro magnet has continuity to ground(like the starter solenoid). Once he removes the fusible link the continuity will go away but there may not have been a short. See what I'm saying? This way would be a wild goose chase. To really isolate the circuit you would have to do the test you speak of with all the "load" devices unplugged. You can test individual sections of harness that way though. Like undo the engine harness connector, and unplugg all the connectors to the sensors on engine. NOW test for continuity of any wires to ground or to each other at the plug. Obviously the *ground* wire bolted to the manifoold will stillhave continuity, but the other wires should have none. Similarlly you can test the ECU pins this way too. unplug the engine harness main connector, Maf, Disty and Alt. Then disconnect ECU and test for continuity to ground or of wires to eachother. Any wire fromn other sensirs like VSS, and Nuetral switch may still show continuity, but I would focus on any main 12v leads and not on signal wires to the ECU. Any wire that is a Shielded wire, unplugg it at both ends and test for continuity from the wire to the shield or ground. Sometimes if exposed to heat the shielding will melt through and touch the inner wires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuBrat84 Posted May 19, 2007 Author Share Posted May 19, 2007 Since you all are asking for an update.. nothing has changed. It still wont spark and I still can't find a short. What kind of sensors being broken would cause a no spark? (I dont think it's the CAS, because thats in the disty, right?) My theory on this now is to just keeping swaping parts/sensors until I get a damn spark to work properly. Also.. as far as testing wires I am going to unplugg EVERYTHING and just test the wires themselves from end to end and to ground. You guys don't think i should just use this block in my RX? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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