Weber or spfi

[mellow65]

So i have been looking for a 88 or 89 suby wagon recently because I wanted the best of both worlds. DR and spfi, but recently have been thinking of the weber route. But my fear of carbs have kept me away from even considering the 85 to 87.

 

Ok i guess my thing with carbs are I just have never been able to tune them right. I have read books, listen to the old mechanics I knew, but it just never seemed to work.

 

But then it seems the last couple of spfi i had, always had something wrong with it. Generally it was a hesitation problem that sometimes I could get rid of it and sometimes I couldn't.

 

So my question, what one do you prefer? What one is better? And this is assuming that most stock carbs suck.

[TahoeFerrari]

I think you said it at the end of you post "...this is assuming that most stock carbs suck".

 

If you want a reliable street car, FI is the way to go. I would only consider a carb on a special use performance machine and then only if FI was not an option.

 

I've owned many cars with carbs - and still have two. There is no comparison in my book - fuel injection is much better. I've never had any significant problems with my 2 spfi EA82s (or my Jeep Cherokee 4.0L) and essentially have never had to do anything with them (combined over 500K miles on the EA82s and 200K on the Jeep).

 

On the other hand, the carbs required ongoing regular maintenance and tuning. With the EA82s, the only diagnostic tool that I ever needed was the trouble code light on the ECU.

 

BTW - There are some '87 spfi d/r 5 speeds around - mostly here in CA I think. Also if you can't find a decent '88-'89 and you're not adverse to a little work, you might consider getting a 90+ Loyale with the push button 4wd 5 speed and swap in a d/r 5 speed from a '85-'89 Subaru.

[thealleyboy]

Carbs, particularly Hitatchi's, get a bad rap, and this isn't always warranted (IMO). Carbs are actually pretty reliable once they are set up correctly. A lot of the problems associated with "carbs", aren't the carb itself, but other related systems.

That being said, SPFI is definitely superior in every possible way. I feel so strongly about this that I've decided to ditch the carb on my 86, and will be converting over to SPFI. Every Sube in my "fleet" (5 vehicles) will be fuel injected at that point.

I'm working on an interesting project now that gives the "best of both worlds", as you describe it. It's an 88 4wd that started off as an 3AT - and SPFI of course. The cool thing about this particular model is that it already has the 3.9 diff setup, making it an ideal candidate for the D/R conversion. Write-up with pix coming soon...

You may want to keep an eye out for 88-94 3AT's if you want SPFI, and are willing to swap trannies.

good luck, John

[Gloyale]

I'm working on an interesting project now that gives the "best of both worlds", as you describe it. It's an 88 4wd that started off as an 3AT - and SPFI of course. The cool thing about this particular model is that it already has the 3.9 diff setup, making it an ideal candidate for the D/R conversion. Write-up with pix coming soon...

 

I am sure with 5 soobs you know what you're doing. BUT, I have to ask are you SURE the rear diff of this 88 is a 3.9? It is my understanding, backed up by 6 years of FSMs that all 85-94, 3AT equipped soobs were 3.7. MTs were all 3.9, except for Turbo 5spds which were all 3.7. Take a look at the sticker to be sure.

[thealleyboy]

I am sure with 5 soobs you know what you're doing. BUT, I have to ask are you SURE the rear diff of this 88 is a 3.9? It is my understanding, backed up by 6 years of FSMs that all 85-94, 3AT equipped soobs were 3.7. MTs were all 3.9, except for Turbo 5spds which were all 3.7. Take a look at the sticker to be sure.

 

Yep, 100% certain...I'll include a pic of the plate in my write-up...

And yes this is the original tranny/diff for this car. I bought it in 1999 off one of the founding members of this Board. I know the complete history of the car.

This question comes up alot, and I don't if these are particularly rare or what. All I can tell you is that I've owned 2 3AT's with the 3.9 (an 87 & 88).

John

[Andy FitzGibbon]

I have both, and like the FI better. The Weber is pretty reliable and fun to tinker with, but sometimes I don't feel like tinkering:) The FI starts and runs every time and I don't have to think about it. I'd convert the Weber to FI if the car it's in wasn't in such nice shape, so instead I'll eventually try to pick up a nice D/R wagon with SPFI and keep this one original.

Andy

[mellow65]

you might consider getting a 90+ Loyale with the push button 4wd 5 speed and swap in a d/r 5 speed from a '85-'89 Subaru.

 

i have thought about that route many times. Couple things I don't like about the loyales one the passive restraint system. Two, in i think 93 they got rid of the volt gauge and the oil pressure gauge. they probably were not super reliable but still kind of nice to have. And I realize those are kind of petty things but hell if im the one spending the money might as well get what i want.

 

so it seems then I will continue to keep my eye open for the elusive 88 and 89 gl. i know they are out there. hell i used to own one and kick myself for getting rid of it. but that was before i really got into subarus. i just got it to make it through the winter.

[thealleyboy]

The Loys arent bad cars - just really "stripped down", as you mentioned. Personally, I kinda prefer the Loy body trim and interiors over the Gl's. If you can settle for a 90-94 Loy, you stand a better chance of finding an EA82 with a solid body.

You can retrofit a lot of the goodies from the older models onto the Loyale. Never heard of anyone swapping out instrument clusters, but I'm sure it can be done. Most of the differences between GL's and Loyales are in standard equip (and in the wiring harness). If you have access to older parts, you can "option one out" to your specs.

good luck, John

[Gloyale]

i have thought about that route many times. Couple things I don't like about the loyales one the passive restraint system. Two, in i think 93 they got rid of the volt gauge and the oil pressure gauge. they probably were not super reliable but still kind of nice to have. And I realize those are kind of petty things but hell if im the one spending the money might as well get what i want.

 

so it seems then I will continue to keep my eye open for the elusive 88 and 89 gl. i know they are out there. hell i used to own one and kick myself for getting rid of it. but that was before i really got into subarus. i just got it to make it through the winter.

 

Most Loyales do infact have Temp and Oil pressure gauges. It's the old DL models that were devoid of these options. And lots of 88's and 89's have passive restraint as well.

[Gloyale]

This question comes up alot, and I don't if these are particularly rare or what. All I can tell you is that I've owned 2 3AT's with the 3.9 (an 87 & 88).

 

These would be the only 2 ever that I've heard of and is contrary to every piece of literature I've ever seen. Something doesn't add up

[thealleyboy]

These would be the only 2 ever that I've heard of and is contrary to every piece of literature I've ever seen. Something doesn't add up

I've got all those FSMs too. Trust me, they are not the final word on these cars. The only definitive source of info that I have found is Subaru of America. They have the specs for every model that was built for sale in the US. You give them your VIN#, they'll tell you anything you want to know about how your car was originally equipped.

Not tryin' to start an argument with ya Gloyale, but I'll be happy to snap some pix if you don't believe me...

John

[Milemaker13]

Best of both worlds..... Hmmm. Me and Gloyale are thinking about trying to combine a D/R from an (87?)coupe w/ a push button style tranny using the vac. to engage 4x4, and the 2 stick mod to engage low range. If it works out, my loyale will be a pushbutton D/R. We both like the ease of the pushbutton, as we drive mostly snowy highways n' such. SPFI reliable!

I actually like the passive restraint system ('round here at least) because it keeps me from getting seatbelt tickets. 'Round here, they'll stop ya for not wearing one now, and who knows what other trouble that little hassle can lead to!

[Gloyale]

I've got all those FSMs too. Trust me, they are not the final word on these cars. The only definitive source of info that I have found is Subaru of America. They have the specs for every model that was built for sale in the US. You give them your VIN#, they'll tell you anything you want to know about how your car was originally equipped.

Not tryin' to start an argument with ya Gloyale, but I'll be happy to snap some pix if you don't believe me...

John

 

 

I don't want to fight either. I'm just confused. Got those pics?

[mellow65]

Most Loyales do infact have Temp and Oil pressure gauges. It's the old DL models that were devoid of these options. And lots of 88's and 89's have passive restraint as well.

 

 

in 93 they stop putting them in the gauge cluster. trust me, i have a 94 in my driveway and just got rid of a 93. Neither of them had them.

 

and with the 88 and 89 have passive restraint system. I haven't seen it. I have owned a 88, my buddy has a 89, and seen many of those years and i have never seen one. not saying they aren't out there, just i have never seen them.

[Gloyale]

I've got all those FSMs too. Trust me, they are not the final word on these cars. The only definitive source of info that I have found is Subaru of America. They have the specs for every model that was built for sale in the US. You give them your VIN#, they'll tell you anything you want to know about how your car was originally equipped.

Not tryin' to start an argument with ya Gloyale, but I'll be happy to snap some pix if you don't believe me...

John

 

 

I found what wasn't adding up. A 1.023:1 drive to the front drive pinion and .948:1 to the rear. I forgot the 3AT was this way. What does this mean?

 

85,86 3at 3.454 front, 3.7 rear

 

88+ 3at 3.7 front , 3.9 rear

 

I don't have FSM for 87 so I won't speculate, but it could be either or both because of differences in 87 early vs. late

 

4EAT equipped cars have a 1:1 drive at both so they have same ratio Front and Rear diffs

[GeneralDisorder]

These would be the only 2 ever that I've heard of and is contrary to every piece of literature I've ever seen. Something doesn't add up

 

I did a loyale 3AT to 5 speed D/R swap a few months back and it was a 3.9 as well. They are definately out there. This particular one was a 91 IIRC.

 

GD