spfi swap... code 13 with 2 distys

[Cougar]

is the coil backet with the amplifier transistor grounded?

 

Skip,

I think there was mention of the bracket being cleaned in a earlier post. possibly in the other thread. There are now two threads open for this problem. One should be locked.

 

As for the ignition problem here is what I suggest you do:

First check for any error codes. If you don't have a error code for the CAS in the disty then it would appear that it is ok and the trouble may be with the ignition amp.

[Skip]

Thanks for the heads up, Glen

 

I merged the threads and agree with your sugg.

[matts87glsedan]

sorry about the 2 threads, but i was getting desperate for some info. thanks for all the help so far.

 

i'll pick up an LED and check my codes.

[Cougar]

The LED for checking the codes is in the ECU. There is a hole in the side to view it.

[matts87glsedan]

yeah.. led in the ecm, wish i had figured THAT out a few days ago. I stupidly thought i needed the CEL to check codes.. anyway, it was code 13 - no position signal. So i went back up to the jy, and theyve got no replacement disty in the yard.

[matts87glsedan]

paid too much for a second hand disty at another yard. put it in, and still no spark, still code 13 after clearing codes, then cranking it over.

 

rotated engine by hand until i had 5v on the white wire. went and probed white wire right in front of ecm (pin 21), and i did have 5v there too.

 

the same problem with 2 different distys?

 

new one is quoted anywhere from 380$ to 670$ . but is it my ecm maybe? this is JY ecm #2.

 

or something else?

[Gloyale]

paid too much for a second hand disty at another yard. put it in, and still no spark, still code 13 after clearing codes, then cranking it over.

 

rotated engine by hand until i had 5v on the white wire. went and probed white wire right in front of ecm (pin 21), and i did have 5v there too.

 

the same problem with 2 different distys?

 

new one is quoted anywhere from 380$ to 670$ . but is it my ecm maybe? this is JY ecm #2.

 

or something else?

 

 

Is there a LightGreen w/yellow wire at pin 18 of ECU? If there is it's suposed to get 12v during cranking. I say if because the strange thing is some of the SPFI diagrahms show it, at some don't, even in the same year FSM.

[matts87glsedan]

yeah i've got that wire. It's covered in step 7 of the swap doc. Its getting 12v during cranking.

[matts87glsedan]

so far i've

 

checked all grounds in ecm connectors for continuity

 

removed coil bracket and shined under it with sandpaper twice

 

shined manifold ground connection

 

shined ground at the corner by the battey

 

swapped in the second jy disty

 

swapped in a second jy ignition amp.

 

i'm using the coil that ran my car before(its accel) - i will go back to the oem though

 

 

what else can cause a code 13 'no position signal' besides a bad disty?

[Cougar]

It sounds like the white signal wire is working but it would be good to verify it. Hopefully your meter will pick up the pulses while cranking the engine. Set the meter to read AC volts and place your probes across the white wire and ground. Then while cranking the engine see what the meter reads. Hopefully you will see something slightly less that 5 volts while cranking and close to zero with just the ignition on. If you confirm those things are good then it seems to me the next thing to replace is the ECU.

[matts87glsedan]

ok thanks cougar, i will check that, but i've just come in from doing the FSM code 13 troubleshooting and this is what i got:

 

"check if continuity exists between terminal B(black) of connector (body side) and the body" YES i have continuity - 8.5 with ohms set at 20k

 

then go to-

 

"check if the female terminal of connector (body side) is open."

 

- i dont understand what this means! can you tell me how to perform this check? (i will also go and look thru the fsm for a description)

 

 

 

 

with meter set to acvolts, i probed the wire just behind the ecm connector. key at run, it shows 10.3. then while cranking, it drops to 4.3ish . but holds there, it doesnt pulse. Although my meter is digital, so maybe i cant see the pulses. but like i said, it isnt jumping all over when i crank.

[daeron]

"check if continuity exists between terminal B(black) of connector (body side) and the body" YES i have continuity - 8.5 with ohms set at 20k

This may be slightly high resistance if the circuit should have continuity? anyone care to follow up on that?

then go to-

 

"check if the female terminal of connector (body side) is open."

 

- i dont understand what this means! can you tell me how to perform this check? (i will also go and look thru the fsm for a description)

 

By "open" they mean no continuity to ground on that connector.

 

Geez, I wish I could help more...

[Cougar]

The fact that the voltage changes while cranking the engine compared to just the ignition ON is a good sign to me. I think that 4.3 volts is the correct level. It sounds like the CAS is doing its' job. Looking at the line with a oscilloscope would be the best thing but not a lot of people have access to one of those. One other thing can be used and that is a frequency counter. Some meters have that function but they are usually the more expensive models.

 

The problem now appears to me to be with the ECU. I can't remember if you changed that already or not. One thing you could check inside the ECU is to make sure that the pin that ties to the white wire is making good connection to the board inside the case.

[GeneralDisorder]

ECU's are tough critters unless you hook up the battery backwards. I've done a lot of plugging and unpluging, testing, poking, and other jiggery-pokery with my SPFI harnesses and have yet to damage one in the slightest. I've got about 4 extra ones sitting around here and they all work.

 

GD

[matts87glsedan]

so "check if female terminal of connector (body side) is open" - no its not (thanks daeron).

 

if no - "replace crank angle sensor" - end of trouble shooting diagram.

 

this will be disty #3.

 

 

"jiggery-pokery " - nhah ha huh, huh huh. i'm sure my first one was pooched tho', because it wouldnt send any decent voltage to the disy, whereas this second one gives me good readings 12v, 5v, 5v, for the power and the 2 signals, and it cycles the fuel pump.

 

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[Cougar]

I think the disty is okay going from the voltage readings you gave earlier. I think you could build a little detector using a LED and resistor to prove pulses are getting to the ECU. If you are interested in trying it just purchase a small LED and a 1,000 ohm half watt resistor from a electronic store. Solder the resistor to one lead of the LED. Then touch one end to ground and the other side to the white wire connection. LEDs are polarity sensitive and the longer lead of the LED needs to be tied to the positive side of the circuit, the white wire. If the light doesn't work try it the other way. It won't hurt anything. I have never tried this myself but it won't hurt anything to try this. It is really a NOID light and can be used to see if the injectors are working if ever needed.

 

EDIT

Now that I think about the resistor size more I think you should make that a 150 ohm resistor. The other would be too large of resistance for the voltage supplied so it wouldn't turn on.

[matts87glsedan]

so i went down to radio shack and instead of getting a resistor and led i picked up a pre wired car led. its rated for 12 v. i then used some alligator clips and got set up to test the white wire while cranking. It gave me a bunch of nice clean blinks. so the disty is sending the signal right? the ecm isnt registering it? that would make it not tell the coil to fire?

 

thanks for the idea cougar, what do you think of those results?

[Cougar]

Good testing. Now we know for sure the CAS is doing its' job. If you want to verify that the pulses are also getting to the pin on the ECU you could do that but really you have done that already. The next thing to do is verify that the wire lead inside the ECU is making good contact to the circuit board inside and to the outside pin. If that is okay then you need to replace the ECU.

[matts87glsedan]

ok i couldnt get the wire out of the back of the connector, is there a trick to that? '

 

 

sorry misread the post. i have to go inside the ecu , okay.

[Cougar]

That's correct, inside. I really don't think you will find anything wrong with the connection going by the voltage readings you gave earlier. Sometimes connections do come loose and some folks have been able to fix their ECU just by resoldering the bad wire connection.

 

For future reference it would be good to know what the Radio Shack part number is for that tester you purchased. Do you have the part number for it?

[matts87glsedan]

well its ok inside... i wish i had access to a known good ecu. rolling the dice on jy computer #3 is really going to piss me off. is it unusual for the computer to malfunction on just a single process? everything else is working just fine..

[Cougar]

I understand your point. It is pretty unlikely that the other ECUs would have this same fault. Yet I can't think of any other thing that would cause a error code 13. Just to verify it, is it still occuring?

[Gloyale]

I understand your point. It is pretty unlikely that the other ECUs would have this same fault. Yet I can't think of any other thing that would cause a error code 13. Just to verify it, is it still occuring?

 

And I think I've asked before but how where you testing for spark? Have you tried a shot of starting fluid to see if you get any fire? I just reread the whole thread and am trying to rack my brains and books for ya. Sorry to repeat ?s

 

Also, is your donor harness from a US or Canada car? And what year was it and was it 4wd. Apparently the USA FWD GL sdn/wagons model, w/ auto belts have a rev sensor(tach pulse sensor) that won't allow fuel unless it senses a pulse.

 

 

EDIT: okay that is in the 89 FSM, but not the 90 for Loyale. I don't know, just to check pins 29, 41, and 49 (W,W,R/blue) are all recieving 12v from ignition relay?

[Cougar]

Thanks for the help Gloyale. Your post just jogged my memory. We need to know if fuse #5 is good. If the horn works it should be ok. Along with the pins Gloyale stated also check pin 27 of the ECU for power.

 

Some time ago I helped a fella and I think he had the same problem with the ignition. After a lot of troubleshooting we finally traced it down to a bad fuse in #5 position.

[daeron]

so "check if female terminal of connector (body side) is open" - no its not (thanks daeron).

 

if no - "replace crank angle sensor" - end of trouble shooting diagram.

 

 

 

 

Wait a second.. *I* just went and re read this whole thread, and caught this.. and I wanted to eliminate possible ambiguity.

 

The flow chart states:

 

"Check if female terminal of connector (body side) is open. Yes?->Repair or replace harness No?-> Replace CAS."

 

In other words, if there is continuity between the female terminal and ground, replace CAS. If there is no continuity (and the circuit is open) then repair or replace harness.

 

Now, I do NOT know what "terminal" is even being tested.. BUT, I can't tell from your post whether you discovered that the terminal was grounded, or not.. and according to MY interpretation of the FSM, it should be.