99 Forester Engine Problems

[banshee400]

My 99 Forester developed a sudden, loud and horrible sounding, clicking noise at the end of a roughly 80 mile drive. The noise would get loud and sound worse for a few seconds then sound better and then get bad again. This was also accompanied by smoke coming out from the exhaust. When we stopped at the toll booth the oil light came on and when I was able to pull over to a service station and get some oil it took three quarts. We left it at the local Subaru dealer and the service manager listened to it and, if I can remember correctly, diagnosed it as a bad piston bearing. Bottom line, he said the engine needed to be replaced.

 

I wanted to get your opinion on two things. One, is that an accurate diagnosis? Two, since I can't find a 2.5L SOHC under $2500, how would I go about swapping my 2.5L for a 2.2L? I'd appreciate any help you can give. I will also willingly accept all due abuse for not stopping as soon as I heard the noise. Thanks!

[OB99W]

An engine that's oil-starved can develop all kinds of problems. It's certainly possible that a connecting rod bearing (at the piston wrist pin or crankshaft journal) is damaged, but smoke out the exhaust suggests more, perhaps scored cylinder walls and piston rings, etc.

 

As to accepting abuse, I'm not into dishing it out; you already know the consequences of ignoring bad noises, and by the time you heard them it might already have been too late. However, I'm not above making a few comments.

 

1) The "oil light" doesn't directly indicate low oil level, it lets you know the oil pressure is low; that may indeed be caused by lack of enough oil, as apparently was the situation with your engine.

 

2) Because of #1, the oil level needs to be checked periodically, especially if an engine has enough miles on it to be burning significant oil.

 

3) Although rare, a sudden failure can occur, causing oil loss and further engine damage within a short time; sometimes you just can't do much to prevent bad things from happening.

 

4) I'll let others offer suggestions on a 2.2L swap for the 2.5L.

 

5) Welcome to the forum. Sorry you're having significant problems.

[porcupine73]

Hmm, well I don't know about the sound but yes engines don't take kindly to running without oil for extended periods. Could check out http://www.ccrengines.com and see what they could do for you.

 

Others have done the 2.5L to 2.2L swap. There should be some posts on it someone can point out. I think some of the connectors pinout may be a little different and something with the flexplate number of bolts or something.

[PAezb]

My 99 Forester developed a sudden, loud and horrible sounding, clicking noise at the end of a roughly 80 mile drive. The noise would get loud and sound worse for a few seconds then sound better and then get bad again. This was also accompanied by smoke coming out from the exhaust. When we stopped at the toll booth the oil light came on and when I was able to pull over to a service station and get some oil it took three quarts. We left it at the local Subaru dealer and the service manager listened to it and, if I can remember correctly, diagnosed it as a bad piston bearing. Bottom line, he said the engine needed to be replaced.

 

I wanted to get your opinion on two things. One, is that an accurate diagnosis? Two, since I can't find a 2.5L SOHC under $2500, how would I go about swapping my 2.5L for a 2.2L? I'd appreciate any help you can give. I will also willingly accept all due abuse for not stopping as soon as I heard the noise. Thanks!

 

First, sorry to hear of your problem. I just wanted to address your cost on a 2.5L replacement engine. Have you considered going with a 2.5L short block replacement? They can be found online through Subaru internet discounters for under $2000, depending on components included - https://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=getLocator&siteid=213882&chapter=APL732&appSectionid=10&groupid=61675&make=32&model=Forester&year=1999&catalogid=1

http://www.subarupartsforyou.com/cp_partdetail.php?partid=10808

 

Or are you thinking total remanufactured engine due to high miles....? Then CCR engines may be the ticket as mentioned earlier.

 

How many total miles on the engine? Were the head gaskets ever replaced?

[idosubaru]

without seeing it, it sounds reasonable. sounds like you were loosing oil somewhere, probably from one of the front seals...cam or crank. i almost always replace them with a timing belt change. they're only a couple dollars.

 

if you're replacing the engine there are only two good options in my oppinion.

 

a cheap used engine or get a CCR. saving a tiny bit isn't worth the lower quality or used status compared to a CCR engine, warranty, knowledge and service.

 

there are tons of posts on here already about a 2.2 swap, i'd spend some time reading through them. while that may sound annoying, you'll only get a certain percentage of the information here based on what is out there.

 

here's some basics: the easiest to use is a 1995 2.2 from an automatic, but others can be used. if you get one with EGR thats what you want since your current motor has an EGR system. you'll also have 8 bell housing bolts (you can check), but the earlier 2.2's have 4. luckily those 4 line up and work just fine, the only issue is that you'll have one starter bolt. but you can drill and tap for the second or just leave the one. not a big deal, but nice to know. for a better price, it's usually easier to deviate from that 1995 specification, but if you can find one then do it.

[The Dude]

My 99 Forester developed a sudden, loud and horrible sounding, clicking noise at the end of a roughly 80 mile drive. The noise would get loud and sound worse for a few seconds then sound better and then get bad again. This was also accompanied by smoke coming out from the exhaust. When we stopped at the toll booth the oil light came on and when I was able to pull over to a service station and get some oil it took three quarts. We left it at the local Subaru dealer and the service manager listened to it and, if I can remember correctly, diagnosed it as a bad piston bearing. Bottom line, he said the engine needed to be replaced.

 

I wanted to get your opinion on two things. One, is that an accurate diagnosis? Two, since I can't find a 2.5L SOHC under $2500, how would I go about swapping my 2.5L for a 2.2L? I'd appreciate any help you can give. I will also willingly accept all due abuse for not stopping as soon as I heard the noise. Thanks!

 

 

I owned a 99 Forester. And at 200,000 miles, when I sold the car, it used a half a quart, at most, between 5,000 mile oil changes. And that was with a leaky separator plate and several other leaky oil seals.

So, I'm assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that you hadn't checked or changed the oil for a long, long time.

Not checking the engine oil periodically was your downfall. When you heard noise coming from the oil starved engine, it was already too late. You might as well have kept on driving because the expensive, and irreversable, damage was already done.

We're still missing some vital information on your car. How many miles? Is the car a manual or an AT? What kind of shape is the clutch and transmission in? In other words, is it even worth throwing a new engine in your car. What other fluids have you not checked or changed? There are quite a few fluids to check on a Suby:

 

engine oil

transmission oil/fluid

front differential oil

power steering fluid

rear differential oil

brake fluid

On the original battery, even the water level has to be checked

windshield washer fluid. Optional, replace only if you want to see where you are going.

[nipper]

Bet you had an oil leak, or it got worse during the drive. Another possability is how long ago did you last check the oil and what kind of oil were you running.

 

I ask ONLY because its necassary to check the oil at least once a week under the hood of any car. With extended oil change intervals (not acussing you, just a public service announcment) you still need to check. A subaru can use a qt of oil between facotry change intervals and be considered normal. Extended intervals people (being human) sometimes overlook that fact and dont check the oil level.

 

SOrry to hear about the engine, but dont be too quick to blame the 2.5L. Any engine will throw a rod if it runs out of oil.

 

Blu threw a rod because the previous owner beleived in chainging the oil once a year weather it needed it or not (1997 bought at 180 K do the math, not a good practice).

 

I replaced mine with another 2.5L.

 

Good Luck.

 

nipper

[banshee400]

First, sorry to hear of your problem. I just wanted to address your cost on a 2.5L replacement engine. Have you considered going with a 2.5L short block replacement? They can be found online through Subaru internet discounters for under $2000, depending on components included - https://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=getLocator&siteid=213882&chapter=APL732&appSectionid=10&groupid=61675&make=32&model=Forester&year=1999&catalogid=1

http://www.subarupartsforyou.com/cp_partdetail.php?partid=10808

 

Or are you thinking total remanufactured engine due to high miles....? Then CCR engines may be the ticket as mentioned earlier.

 

How many total miles on the engine? Were the head gaskets ever replaced?

 

It only has 96,XXX miles on it. It's been great up until I killed it. No, the headgaskets haven't been replaced.

[banshee400]

I owned a 99 Forester. And at 200,000 miles, when I sold the car, it used a half a quart, at most, between 5,000 mile oil changes. And that was with a leaky separator plate and several other leaky oil seals.

So, I'm assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that you hadn't checked or changed the oil for a long, long time.

Not checking the engine oil periodically was your downfall. When you heard noise coming from the oil starved engine, it was already too late. You might as well have kept on driving because the expensive, and irreversable, damage was already done.

We're still missing some vital information on your car. How many miles? Is the car a manual or an AT? What kind of shape is the clutch and transmission in? In other words, is it even worth throwing a new engine in your car. What other fluids have you not checked or changed? There are quite a few fluids to check on a Suby:

 

engine oil

transmission oil/fluid

front differential oil

power steering fluid

rear differential oil

brake fluid

On the original battery, even the water level has to be checked

windshield washer fluid. Optional, replace only if you want to see where you are going.

 

It has 96,xxx miles on it, manual transmission, and the clutch is close to needing to be replaced. I was planning on making that part of my swap.

[banshee400]

Thanks to everyone for the quick replies and good advice. I talked to CCR today and they had a lot of good information. They recommended against putting the 2.2L in a 99 Forester. They said it could be done, but would require a lot to make it work. It would probably be above my skill level anyway. Given that I'm a windows admin by trade and a mechanic by neccessity. I'd still like to go with an engine from CCR but I'm not sure I'm goind to be able to swing the cash any time soon. Does anyone know of a good Subaru mechanic in the Kansas City, MO or Topeka, KS area? Or where else to look for 2.5L engines. I can't find any cheap. Even the used ones at salvage yards are only $500 cheaper than the CCR rebuild. Thanks again for all the advice. This is an awesome board.

[jon38iowa]

Thanks to everyone for the quick replies and good advice. I talked to CCR today and they had a lot of good information. They recommended against putting the 2.2L in a 99 Forester. They said it could be done, but would require a lot to make it work. It would probably be above my skill level anyway. Given that I'm a windows admin by trade and a mechanic by neccessity. I'd still like to go with an engine from CCR but I'm not sure I'm goind to be able to swing the cash any time soon. Does anyone know of a good Subaru mechanic in the Kansas City, MO or Topeka, KS area? Or where else to look for 2.5L engines. I can't find any cheap. Even the used ones at salvage yards are only $500 cheaper than the CCR rebuild. Thanks again for all the advice. This is an awesome board.

There is a 2.5 SOHC Cam listed on ebay as of yesterday- a really low price of under $500.00, they claim it runs, but I would definately tred lightly and find out more about it. If it helps any, I had to have mine rebuilt to, same as nipper: Once every year or two oil changes by the first owner. Happy to say now though, it is running like new one!

[nipper]

There is a 2.5 SOHC Cam listed on ebay as of yesterday- a really low price of under $500.00, they claim it runs, but I would definately tred lightly and find out more about it. If it helps any, I had to have mine rebuilt to, same as nipper: Once every year or two oil changes by the first owner. Happy to say now though, it is running like new one!

 

And thats why long long synthetic oil change intervals bother me.

 

 

So i am not the only one in that club. Interesting. Mine is running like a new one, because it is a new one, right from subaru.

 

nipper

[jon38iowa]

And thats why long long synthetic oil change intervals bother me.

 

 

 

nipper

Exactly! I don't care how great the oil is, I maintain: Driving in a metropolitan area is, " Severe Duty." I change my oil and filter every 3K minimum.

John

[idosubaru]

unless it's really cheap i would avoid a used EJ25. paying $1,000 for a used motor that ends up having a bad headgasket would seriously annoy me. at the very least, talk to the vendor and ask if they have a warranty. even with a warranty though you're paying labor all over again to remove/install another one. only you know the kind of risks you like to take, but i wouldn't go that route. i have a couple blown EJ25 vehicles at my house right now, they are very easy to find. 1998 80,000.....blown headgasket. if finances were a concern i would choose the 2.2 swap myself.

[nipper]

unless it's really cheap i would avoid a used EJ25. paying $1,000 for a used motor that ends up having a bad headgasket would seriously annoy me. at the very least, talk to the vendor and ask if they have a warranty. even with a warranty though you're paying labor all over again to remove/install another one. only you know the kind of risks you like to take, but i wouldn't go that route. i have a couple blown EJ25 vehicles at my house right now, they are very easy to find. 1998 80,000.....blown headgasket. if finances were a concern i would choose the 2.2 swap myself.

 

Why not replace the HG before you install the engine. In this case i would.

There are some things you do when get a used engine, you dont throw it right in the car. You do the usual timing belt and accessories, plugs, rear main seal, that plastic plate, so i would do HG also.

 

nipper

[Skip]

That's the second time I've heard Emilly

say a 2.2 swap it too complicated.

 

Maybe she wants to sell her engines??

 

So be it that they are the best in the business.

 

The swap is plug and play if you follow the

instructions given here.

 

Speaking again for myself, as my OB has one.

[idosubaru]

Why not replace the HG before you install the engine. In this case i would.

good point, i was assuming he doesn't want that expense. he mentioned the prices of used engines around him are not far from a rebuilt. buy a used engine for $1,000, pay $1,000 for headgasket replacement and additional parts and then $$ engine removal and install. that total is likley to be $2,000 - $3,000. Which you and i would agree is reasonable for what you're getting. I'd just do the headgasket myself, but if he's paying labor, CCR might be a better route at that point.

[uniberp]

Thanks to everyone for the quick replies and good advice. I talked to CCR today and they had a lot of good information. They recommended against putting the 2.2L in a 99 Forester. They said it could be done, but would require a lot to make it work. It would probably be above my skill level anyway. Given that I'm a windows admin by trade and a mechanic by neccessity. I'd still like to go with an engine from CCR but I'm not sure I'm goind to be able to swing the cash any time soon. Does anyone know of a good Subaru mechanic in the Kansas City, MO or Topeka, KS area? Or where else to look for 2.5L engines. I can't find any cheap. Even the used ones at salvage yards are only $500 cheaper than the CCR rebuild. Thanks again for all the advice. This is an awesome board.

 

Car-part.com has a regional search for specifics parts/models. I saw a few around KSCity. A wrecked car may be a good source for an engine.

[3Pin]

I just did the 2.2 swap on my 98 Forester and used the 95 2.2 automatic and it went in great. The motor had 71 K on it an runs great. I used the engine overhaul kit from Subaru and did the H2o pump, spark plugs,timing belt, seperator plate gig while the engine was out. The flywheel has to come off the 2.5 and onto the 2.2. Other than that, it was a pretty clean swap. Is the 99 much different than the 98?

 

As a reference point, the Motor was $395 inluding shipping.

[banshee400]

What I was told is that the 2.2 won't bolt up exactly onto the 99. It will on the 98, but not the 99.

[ferret]

I don't think Emily is trying to push CCR's 2.5L on you. A later build ( 95-96 IIRC ) 2.2L is an easier swap up to 1998. After that all EJ's became phase II blocks. So that would leave the 99 2.2L as the easiest 2.2 swap. And in 99 they were just a smaller version of the 2.5L SOHC sharing the same heads by then.

 

The phase II SOHC 2.5L is a good engine overall. On message boards you usually see / hear about the ones that are giving problems. Not the many that are running without problems. Subaru does have a good reputation for reliability.