Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Well... this time is for my Yellow Wagon... The ER27 doesn`t wanna Start at the first time the key is Turned... I`m not near of it, but dad Called and said that everythin` is Just Fine, the Battery is Brand New, all the Dashboard Lights are very bright and remains in that way even with the key Turned... ...the Starter just make a Li`l "Click" mute Sound... At around seven key turns, it wants to start, but very Hardly... like a Dead Battery... and then one turn more, it Starts very "Happily" :-\ ... Dad said that even the Battery wires are fine... (He Changed `em last January) ...and I`m not Sure which part can cause it. Sometimes the Subie Just Starts fine at the Firts key Turn, very "Happily" and stay that way, startin` fine all the day, or two... then the "Dead Start" Syndrome begins again... Sometimes it takes just three, or seven, or so tries to Start... Any Idea? Thanx! ... JesZeK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 sounds like the same thing my XT6 did when the starter went...exactly like it.. I thought it was the ign first but if it didnt start first turn of the key I beat the starter with a hammer and it started right up..I dont know if you have any place down there to test the starter and if I was home I could pull up the directions for doing it yourself..but work computer so nothing here..I tried cleaning the brushes and the starter out with no go but once I replaced it no problems..there could also be old brittle wires not getting enough current...but its a start:) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted May 25, 2007 Author Share Posted May 25, 2007 Thank you for your Fast Answer!!! Sadly I have not any chance to Go this weekend to my Parents Home (Where the Yellow Wagon is), to Check it out... `cos I need to Revive my White Wagon (that is here with me), that has a very Weird sound in the Engine... but I`ll suggest to my dad to gave a Li`l hit to the Starter if it refuses to start; and I`ll go check it maybe next weekend. Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 I think it is the ignition switch. Very common. Try turning the key to on. Then get under hood and touch 12v to the starter solenoid tab. If it sarts then no problem then you know no enough amps can make it through the ignition switch. I just run a simple pushbutton with 12v fused to the starter. Other use relays, but that still requires that your ignition switch makes contact. I like the button, as it takes the ignition switch out of the equation. You could run a button and a relay to be extra cool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Numbchux Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 yep, it's either the switch, or one of the relays between there. like GLoyale said, hotwire it. run a wire straight from the + battery terminal to the little tab on the top of the starter. if it starts right up, it's something up under the dash. in which case, I'd wire a whole new circuit to a button....just to keep it simple. if it still has trouble turning over, it's the relay inside the starter. in which case....new starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hooziewhatsit Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 It's probably the switch & circuit, like suggested above, however, I had a friend with this problem fix it by replacing the spade connector to the solenoid on the starter. If nothing else, it's a quick fix/check before you start making other bigger changes. ymmv, -Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joostvdw Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 +1 on the spade connector replacement, I "fixed" a legacy that way once Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted May 25, 2007 Author Share Posted May 25, 2007 Thanx for many Replies! ... I`ll do a voyage to my Parent`s home to check that, and then I`ll post here the Results, I`ll try the Spade Connector and everythin` Suggested. ... You could run a button and a relay to be extra cool That sounds very Nice! ... but the Yellow Wagon is my Father`s Everyday Runner, so maybe he don`t like the Idea to Start the engine of the "Unique XT6 Wagon" like a Tractor... but I`ll consider that for my White Wagon, (that`s my Everyday Runner) if it Fails, `cos is a Great Idea! ... Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 That sounds very Nice! ... but the Yellow Wagon is my Father`s Everyday Runner, so maybe he don`t like the Idea to Start the engine of the "Unique XT6 Wagon" like a Tractor... but I`ll consider that for my White Wagon, (that`s my Everyday Runner) if it Fails, `cos is a Great Idea! ... Thank you! I ran the button in Parallel to the existing circuit. That way I only need it if the car fails to start by turning key Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted May 25, 2007 Author Share Posted May 25, 2007 it is a Great Idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted May 25, 2007 Author Share Posted May 25, 2007 I`ll consider to do That "Parallel Switch" Idea on my Yellow Wagon when I got there, but first I need to check carefully it to understand what`s happenning ... so Sad I`m soo far away for now... :-\ ... Thank you all for your Kind Replies with Nice & Usefull Ideas, if you got more Ideas, they`re Welcome! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky92 Posted May 25, 2007 Share Posted May 25, 2007 Do you want me to scan my FSM pages on the starters and how to test them and email them to you??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 this might be of assistance... http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=74632 This is the exact same reason I installed the relay in my car. I didn't want to use any alternate switch, so I just used the wire coming from the ignition switch to power a relay. There IS a distinct possibility that the problem is being caused by a starter solenoid that is on its way out.. and to MY mind, the likelihood of that being the problem goes up if tapping the starter with a hammer helps get it to turn over. If the starter clicks every time you hit the key, then there is no need to worry about it making contact. The solenoid requires something on the order of 3-4 amps to operate (maybe as little as say, 1 amp) and the relay requires all of 0.02 amps. Another benefit of having a relay under the hood: at any time, you can simply take the wire that you connect to the ignition switch, unplug it from the ignition switch, and touch it to the battery terminal to start the car. Essentially, a remote starter button so that you can check for spark, examine your injector spraying pattern (well not on MPFI engines) or check your timing without a second person to turn the key. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phizinza Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 Probably a bit late. But when I put the new ignition switch in my Brat it doesn't like to start the car, goes to ignition then when turned to start it only works 1 out of 10 times. I've hooked up a push button start now so I just turn the key to ignition and hold the button down. Works good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daeron Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 I forgot to mention before, but the ECU gets a "cranking" signal from the ignition switch when the key is turned to "start" and that is really the big reason I decided NOT to use a pushbutton.... my relay mod keeps that "cranking" signal going to the ECU when it should be. Obviously many have used the pushbutton mod instead, and haven't had any difficulties... but I am a firm believer in Murphy's Law, and did NOT want to leave any room for anything else to go wrong, especially since I know that my car does not activate the fuel pump with the key "on" unless the car is running. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gloyale Posted May 26, 2007 Share Posted May 26, 2007 I forgot to mention before, but the ECU gets a "cranking" signal from the ignition switch when the key is turned to "start" and that is really the big reason I decided NOT to use a pushbutton.... my relay mod keeps that "cranking" signal going to the ECU when it should be. Obviously many have used the pushbutton mod instead, and haven't had any difficulties... but I am a firm believer in Murphy's Law, and did NOT want to leave any room for anything else to go wrong, especially since I know that my car does not activate the fuel pump with the key "on" unless the car is running. In good spirits I say this First the "cranking signal" is not from the ignition switch, it comes from the crank sensor in the distributor( I know, crank both noun and verb, right) So the signal is present any time the engine is rotating. Note:** FSM..Ignition switch/power supply diagrahm shows there is a wire shown as fuse through fuse 20 designated SPFI control unit. Funny though it is not Shown on the SPFI ECU diagrahm. Theres no place for a signal wire from the starter switch though. Perhaps it's a carry over from earlier model not erased form every diagrahm, just the main updates. I've seen that before. I just looked back at 86 FSM and sure enough in 86 ther is a wire signaling from the starter though fuse 20. Only powered in start position of ig switch. It's a Light green w/Yellow wire in the corner of the medium size ECU connector(sorry no pin #s in 86 diagrahms, just location) Also on 2wd Carbed models the same fuse supplies power to the Fuel pump during cranking If you really don't want more to go wrong, then would'nt just adding a no fail 12v all the time push button be the fewest parts and failure points? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted June 12, 2007 Author Share Posted June 12, 2007 Thank you all for your Kind Help! this might be of assistance... http://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=74632 ... That is a Great Helpful Thread, Daeron, Thank you! Do you want me to scan my FSM pages on the starters and how to test them and email them to you??? That´s a Great Idea, Specially if you have the ER27 FSM, I already got the EA82 ones. ... If you really don't want more to go wrong, then would'nt just adding a no fail 12v all the time push button be the fewest parts and failure points? I´ll consider That Idea... I think that I´ll Travel to my Parents Home (Where the "Refusin´ to Start" Subie is) to Repair it in a Week... or Two... :-\ ... it Depend on my Job´s Boss... I´ll post here any Advance on that issue... Thank you All! ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis ex24 Posted June 16, 2007 Share Posted June 16, 2007 those engines had starter issues. i had an xt6 that had a starter button installed to bypass all the wiring for the switch in the dash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loyale 2.7 Turbo Posted February 13, 2008 Author Share Posted February 13, 2008 Now, it is Already Repaired! I went to my Parents` Home, and Dissasembled the Starter itself... it had Worn the Carbon contacts & the Cooper -Brass- Contacts (I Don`t Know the Right Translation for those Parts, but I Hope You`ll Understand) and it was too Dry... I re-Greased it, Changed the Worn Parts, and then; the Starter Switch was Bad Too... It Had Broken the Release Spring Inside... so the Key kept in Start Position :-\ ... I Changed the Starter too, and Now Everythin` seems to be Fine with my Subie!!! -for Now!- I`ll Post Pics of that, soon... (as Soon as I could find my Camera) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.