WJM Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 WTF did I do wrong? The RX is overheating, thtere is coolant in the oil, and now is way down on power. Oil is vitually running our from under the heads. I applyed sealer to directions. touqred to specs. heat cycled. Used proper oring for oil passage. CU HGs are not supposed to blow. No leak. why they leak now? I followed directions!!! Was this the ONE time I was supposed to make my own rules instead of following everyone elses??????????????? WHY??????????????????????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted November 29, 2003 Author Share Posted November 29, 2003 ya know, now that i tihnk aobut it........ its kinda dumb that an engine i actualy spend time and money on lasts about 2 days, while an engine i threw together at the last minute jsut for the heck of it lasts 17k miles and a whole year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 are you still using the spfi block? what about o-ringed head gaskets, around the cylinders themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svxpert Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 <<I applyed sealer to directions.>> where did you apply sealer to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted November 29, 2003 Author Share Posted November 29, 2003 Miles: Copper headgaskets. I was not aware of oring'ing the cyls. SVX: To the mating surfaces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleiades Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 will, you're still coming out right? (to the autocross that is). I'm on my way out now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archemitis Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 i have heard some horror stories about copper head gaskets before. maybe give her some more lbs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
archemitis Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 of torque on the head bolts, that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skip Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 Wiil, continuing on Arche's head bolt theory. Could the old head bolts have been stretched beyond their viable use limit? Could the thinner head gasket have caused the bolt to enter into an unused portion of the block or possibly bottom out resulting in a false torque reading. Just attemping to answer your original question. I have read, the big blowers over at 'Yota, use special head "studs" and nuts to hold their heads down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesFox Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 WJM, i was bs-ing with a ford probe owner, i mentioned using a carb block for higher compression, and he mentioned 0-ringed head gasket. makes sende, but i-m sure they dont exist for subarus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddcomp Posted November 29, 2003 Share Posted November 29, 2003 yeah for almost any engine if you can afford it i would go with studs and nuts alot stronger and alot less cylinder warpage when the final torque is achieved o ringin is great if your running a blower of insane amounts of boost or compression outside of that its a bit over kill for the average street motor not saying its a bad idea and if you have the money it doesn't hurt to do it i would guess that archemetis and skip prolly has the anwer on bottomed out bolts and bad torque readings from the thinner gaskets you sealed the gaskets ? what did you use to do that ? o ringing can be done to any motor just takes money and a machine shop to cut the step to hold the copper ring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted November 29, 2003 Author Share Posted November 29, 2003 No oring'in fer me. oddcomp: I used the Permatex Ultra Copper RTV. Supposed to be good for 700deg F. archemitis: Maybe so..... Skip: Maybe so as well. When i take the engine out, I'll see how far they CAN run in the block, as opposed to how far they run in when holding the head on, with no gasket. And i used the stock .043 thickness. MilesFox: My GL-10 has gone 17k miles with standard turbo headgakets, and the high compression and turbo...no problems like I am having with the RX engine, stock bottom end and turbo....so must be some error of some kind with the mating of the head and block somewhere along the way. oddcomp: I wonder where i can find studs??? Nuts are no problem. The car made it thru autocross tho. Vids and pics soon. Edit: Ok, posted that. Now for some info about what Im gonna do with the RX...since the GL-10 is no longer a platform for modification and testing since I got the RX...the RX will get some experiments going. I will use factory turbo headgaskets when I get a pair and just see what happens. I'll also....ummm....oh, Oil cooler. I'll install that too. Lower it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oddcomp Posted November 30, 2003 Share Posted November 30, 2003 well there i was after reading your post sitting in the throne room.... reading a suby repair manual since with any luck i will be redoing my turbo motor on my vacation and i flashed apon the idea of how your getting water in the oil ... those access plugs to get to the wrist pins one in right behind the water pump and i assume subject to water pressure is it possible that for some reason that plug is leaking water into the crank case? hairline crack not enough sealer on the threads ? thus causeing it to over heat in the first place then <gasp> possibly warping the heads or block? just a idiotic theory made up in the thinking room lol as far as studs well i would suggest scouring the import tuner mags for parts sourses that sell metric studs then measure all of your bolts and thread size and call around asking if they have x amount of studs in x amount of length and x amount of diameter perhaps a ej20 or bigger motor has the same size bolts ? try calling arp since they make studs blots and who knows what else for almost anything i would think perhaps someone in the airplane community has used studs at one time for reliabilty well cough cough off to work cough ugh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted November 30, 2003 Author Share Posted November 30, 2003 oddcomp: WIth regard to that wrist pin access plug...I never took it out. Good thought tho, if I had done bottom end work. Since I work at NAPA, I'll see what Rockford has to offer in the way of bolts, studs and nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleiades Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Originally posted by Skip Wiil, continuing on Arche's head bolt theory. Could the old head bolts have been stretched beyond their viable use limit? Could the thinner head gasket have caused the bolt to enter into an unused portion of the block or possibly bottom out resulting in a false torque reading. Just attemping to answer your original question. I have read, the big blowers over at 'Yota, use special head "studs" and nuts to hold their heads down Guess tonights findings help answer these questions: (all measurements taken in inches) 1.86 - long hole depth 3.86 - head thickness 0.044 - head gasket 5.44 - bottom of washer to end of threads (long bolt) totals: hole+head+gasket = 5.764 (height) height-bolt = 0.324 (tolerence) ---------------------------------- 0.644 - recess in head 1.936 - short hole depth 4.495 - bottom of washer to end of threads (short bolt) totals: (head thickness-recess)+gasket+hole = 5.196 (height) height-bolt = 0.701 (tolerence) pics to come tomorrow night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nug Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 As far as the o-ringing is concerned, It's not an actual o-ring. The deck has a groove cut around the circumference of the cylinder, and a stainless steel wire ring is put in there. So when you torque the head down, the ring is pressed into both the block and h/g. Kind of eliminates blown head gaskets altogether. Don't know if this is SOP for Cu H/G's, but I know it can be done with conventional (or whatever "normal") h/g's. Good for big lungfuls of N2O. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleiades Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Originally posted by snotrocket As far as the o-ringing is concerned, It's not an actual o-ring. The deck has a groove cut around the circumference of the cylinder, and a stainless steel wire ring is put in there. So when you torque the head down, the ring is pressed into both the block and h/g. Kind of eliminates blown head gaskets altogether. Don't know if this is SAP for Cu H/G's, but I know it can be done with conventional (or whatever "normal") h/g's. Good for big lungfuls of N2O. exactly the route I hoped to go with my buildup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted December 1, 2003 Author Share Posted December 1, 2003 When i get my EJxx turbo project(s) going....Oring'in will be one thing I will experiment with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleiades Posted December 1, 2003 Share Posted December 1, 2003 Originally posted by WJM When i get my EJxx turbo project(s) going....Oring'in will be one thing I will experiment with. Maybe I'll get mine done first and you'll have a local source. lol.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WJM Posted December 1, 2003 Author Share Posted December 1, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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